Perlisten S7t Tower Speaker Review

Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
After reading all the comments on vertical dispersion, ceiling and floor bounce, etc., I can only think of one thing:
"One man's ceiling is another man's floor" – Paul Simon​

And, a completely different thought about concert halls – today I renewed my season's tickets for the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra (the other BSO) at Strathmore Hall in Rockville, MD. I don't think I've been there since the days when corona virus was a problem in distant China, January 2020.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Strange you experience this as it's exactly opposite of my findings and the purpose of center spread feature when upmixing 2CH music.
Well, that is my experience. Actually I find the upmixer actually improves imaging and perspective.

I do note from pictures on here, that people are placing their speakers far too close together. That may be part of the problem.

I think it is appropriate to try and separate speakers by seven feet if possible. My mains are 13.5' apart, which makes the center 6.75' from each main.

The other points are that I really set my levels and distances carefully. The impulse responses of all speakers arrive at the MLP at exactly the same time. Even so the sound is very uniform throughout the seating area, although the MLP is the best. Certainly my center does not predominate, and all speakers blend seamlessly. I never have to adjust the center volume to hear dialog.

I just listened to the Detroit Symphony Orchestra live tonight in their continuing digital series. They have a really good conductor Jader Bagnamini. It was the Mendelsohn Scottish symphony. It was a thrilling performance and very true to life here. Imaging was excellent with the horns and brass blazing from the back. The ring from that hall was very realistic. The DSO had the good fortune to have one benefactor buy all their AV equipment. They stream in 4K. Their hall has an excellent acoustic.

I have spent most of my life attending concerts and just wishing my equipment would render a closer approximation. Now to my surprise, I find it is possible to recreate a very close approximation to being in the hall church or other venue in the home.

I have to say, that this rig was an absolute sanity saver for me getting though this last year and more. I'm just over the moon about how this room came together and performs.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Curious, you guys using center spread, just where are you placing the adjuster for the spread?
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Audioholic Chief
Staff member
Have BMR’s replaced Scaramucci’s as the new unit of measure?
Yup!

They also offer 4 BMR Towers worth of output, each. The BMR tower couldn't be used in a 6000 cubic foot home theater. Not really a reasonable comparison.
 
M

mtrot

Senior Audioholic
He is asking if it's possible to hear these speakers in those areas at a dealer. The people to ask would be fidelity imports which are Perlisten's dealer. Perlisten is planning on exhibiting at CEDIA this year so if you are around Indianapolis in early September you can hear them there. They are also contemplating possibly exhibiting at AXPONA for those who will be in the northwest burbs of Chicago in late October.
It would also be nice if Perlisten exhibited at RMAF in early October, as I have reservations for RMAF!
 
audioworkshop

audioworkshop

Audiophyte
Who would ever believe the over $10k speaker market would get crowded... but wait this is actually a $17k speaker? for those who could afford such lofty heights more power to you but for the rest of us peons we will suffer from the likes of Paradigm etc... which I hope you guys will review the new Founder series as a serious contender for entry-level high end... Cheers!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Who would ever believe the over $10k speaker market would get crowded... but wait this is actually a $17k speaker? for those who could afford such lofty heights more power to you but for the rest of us peons we will suffer from the likes of Paradigm etc... which I hope you guys will review the new Founder series as a serious contender for entry-level high end... Cheers!
I'm hearing some good things about the founder series. AH doesn't have a review yet, but they do have a preview if you want to check it out.

 
D

D Murphy

Full Audioholic
Yup!

They also offer 4 BMR Towers worth of output, each. The BMR tower couldn't be used in a 6000 cubic foot home theater. Not really a reasonable comparison.
hmmmmm I think confusion may be reigning. I was asking about the price of the Dolby Upmixer. So maybe it's less than $17,000? BTW, for those of us who use speakers to reproduce music, a single pair of BMR towers could work in a 6,000 cu ft space, assuming someone hadn't ruined it with room treatments. :rolleyes:
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I think the Dolby Upmixer being discussed is what's in the more current run of AVRs. FWIW, I have seen a bunch of people swear by upmixing stereo to their Auro 3D as well as Dolby. As always, YMMV.
I prefer Stereo in Stereo and 5.1 audio mixes in their native format (Dolby, DTS).
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Audioholic Chief
Staff member
hmmmmm I think confusion may be reigning. I was asking about the price of the Dolby Upmixer. So maybe it's less than $17,000? BTW, for those of us who use speakers to reproduce music, a single pair of BMR towers could work in a 6,000 cu ft space, assuming someone hadn't ruined it with room treatments. :rolleyes:
Dolby upmixer is part of most ATMOS receivers and processors. I believe all of them. It's the cost of those devices.

Could work and would actually achieve the requisite performance necessary are two different things. While reference levels may not be for everyone, there are lots of people who want that. While I have the utmost respect for you and your products. They can't hit those levels in 6000 cubic foot rooms. Nearly no speakers can.

I know we have disagreed on this in the past, even James and I disagree on this, but my opinion has long been that speakers need a lot of headroom. That they have an effortless quality to them that makes music sound more real and reduces fatigue when listening at louder volumes. I don't mean kill your hearing loud. I mean 75 to 85 dB average loud. At a listening distance of 4-5 meters, most speakers really struggle to then hit the peaks in decent recordings without any onset of distortion or compression. I hear that and it's my opinion that this is an important and understudied aspect of sound reproduction. I have a client who is currently listening to a Sony Sound bar in a 10,000 cubic foot room at a listening distance of 4 meters and while it doesn't sound great, he doesn't think it sounds too quiet or weak. But once he gets real speakers in there, it will transform the sound.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Dolby upmixer is part of most ATMOS receivers and processors. I believe all of them. It's the cost of those devices.

Could work and would actually achieve the requisite performance necessary are two different things. While reference levels may not be for everyone, there are lots of people who want that. While I have the utmost respect for you and your products. They can't hit those levels in 6000 cubic foot rooms. Nearly no speakers can.

I know we have disagreed on this in the past, even James and I disagree on this, but my opinion has long been that speakers need a lot of headroom. That they have an effortless quality to them that makes music sound more real and reduces fatigue when listening at louder volumes. I don't mean kill your hearing loud. I mean 75 to 85 dB average loud. At a listening distance of 4-5 meters, most speakers really struggle to then hit the peaks in decent recordings without any onset of distortion or compression. I hear that and it's my opinion that this is an important and understudied aspect of sound reproduction. I have a client who is currently listening to a Sony Sound bar in a 10,000 cubic foot room at a listening distance of 4 meters and while it doesn't sound great, he doesn't think it sounds too quiet or weak. But once he gets real speakers in there, it will transform the sound.
I agree completely with you on this. 6000 cu.ft. though is a big room. This theater is 4,300 cu.ft so not really small. I find that most speakers are woefully deficient in the crucial power band 0f 80 Hz to 2.5 KHz or so. They tend to be especially deficient in the 80 Hz to 600 Hz range where BSC is occurring in most speakers.
That does require large robust motor systems. Then we have the insane situation were people devote huge amounts of power to the 20 to 80 Hz range. That is actually an area that contains little acoustic power. It is just that again most subs are not intelligently designed. If a sub requires insane gobs of power to reproduce the last two octaves, then it is not intelligently designed.

For the realistic reproduction of a large body of music, receivers are grossly inadequate to produce adequate unstressed spls, if the speakers can produce them.
So I do design for a lot of amp power and select drivers that can do the job. Total power amp power to this rig is 3,200 watts. That keeps things relaxed and it never sounds stressed. So I'm with you on this one.
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Audioholic Chief
Staff member
I agree completely with you on this. 6000 cu.ft. though is a big room. This theater is 4,300 cu.ft so not really small. I find that most speakers are woefully deficient in the crucial power band 0f 80 Hz to 2.5 KHz or so. They tend to be especially deficient in the 80 Hz to 600 Hz range where BSC is occurring in most speakers.
That does require large robust motor systems. Then we have the insane situation were people devote huge amounts of power to the 20 to 80 Hz range. That is actually an area that contains little acoustic power. It is just that again most subs are not intelligently designed. If a sub requires insane gobs of power to reproduce the last two octaves, then it is not intelligently designed.

For the realistic reproduction of a large body of music, receivers are grossly inadequate to produce adequate unstressed spls, if the speakers can produce them.
So I do design for a lot of amp power and select drivers that can do the job. Total power amp power to this rig is 3,200 watts. That keeps things relaxed and it never sounds stressed. So I'm with you on this one.
Yes I agree with much of this.

A speaker manufacturer friend of mine who designs active speakers has the ability to monitor and report out when the amps clip in his speakers. As part of some tests he did to figure out how much amplification was needed, during prototyping, he tried different amp modules (same manufacturer but different output levels). The tweeter is waveguide loaded on a large 8" or so waveguide, but uses a conventional dome tweeter. At fairly normal listening levels, the amplifier clipped at least 1 time 100% of the time for each track he played. It clipped on average 5 times per track, with some more dynamic tracks clipping in excess of a dozen times. This particular speaker was not unusually inefficient, if it were a passive speaker, its reference sensitivity would likely be around 88-90dB or so. He ended up needing to go with quite a bit of power, I forget how much, but something like 1250 watts per channel total, I believe 250 on the tweeter, 500 for each additional drive. It was quite a lot of power, most people don't have that, and yet this was what was needed to avoid clipping. This speaker is still VERY limited in maximum output. About the same as what Dennis' speakers could do. So I think it is highly likely amps clip a lot more often than people realize (my own experience has been a few real world examples of receivers audibly clipping with fairly efficient speakers). It doesn't matter if, on average, you only listen to 1-2 watts, what matters is that .1% of the time when you need all 3,200 and don't have it.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes I agree with much of this.

A speaker manufacturer friend of mine who designs active speakers has the ability to monitor and report out when the amps clip in his speakers. As part of some tests he did to figure out how much amplification was needed, during prototyping, he tried different amp modules (same manufacturer but different output levels). The tweeter is waveguide loaded on a large 8" or so waveguide, but uses a conventional dome tweeter. At fairly normal listening levels, the amplifier clipped at least 1 time 100% of the time for each track he played. It clipped on average 5 times per track, with some more dynamic tracks clipping in excess of a dozen times. This particular speaker was not unusually inefficient, if it were a passive speaker, its reference sensitivity would likely be around 88-90dB or so. He ended up needing to go with quite a bit of power, I forget how much, but something like 1250 watts per channel total, I believe 250 on the tweeter, 500 for each additional drive. It was quite a lot of power, most people don't have that, and yet this was what was needed to avoid clipping. This speaker is still VERY limited in maximum output. About the same as what Dennis' speakers could do. So I think it is highly likely amps clip a lot more often than people realize (my own experience has been a few real world examples of receivers audibly clipping with fairly efficient speakers). It doesn't matter if, on average, you only listen to 1-2 watts, what matters is that .1% of the time when you need all 3,200 and don't have it.
So, in this rig, there is 550 watts to each right and left main. 300 watts to the center, 250 watts to each surround, 550 watts to each rear back and 100 watts for each of the four ceiling Atmos speakers. That actually adds up to 3,100 watts, but that seems to be adequate power as far as I can tell.
 
J

Jerkface

Audioholic
It doesn't matter if, on average, you only listen to 1-2 watts, what matters is that .1% of the time when you need all 3,200 and don't have it.
(edit)

Never mind, I re-read and understood what you were saying with the 3200w comment.
 
Last edited:
D

D Murphy

Full Audioholic
Dolby upmixer is part of most ATMOS receivers and processors. I believe all of them. It's the cost of those devices.

Could work and would actually achieve the requisite performance necessary are two different things. While reference levels may not be for everyone, there are lots of people who want that. While I have the utmost respect for you and your products. They can't hit those levels in 6000 cubic foot rooms. Nearly no speakers can.

I know we have disagreed on this in the past, even James and I disagree on this, but my opinion has long been that speakers need a lot of headroom. That they have an effortless quality to them that makes music sound more real and reduces fatigue when listening at louder volumes. I don't mean kill your hearing loud. I mean 75 to 85 dB average loud. At a listening distance of 4-5 meters, most speakers really struggle to then hit the peaks in decent recordings without any onset of distortion or compression. I hear that and it's my opinion that this is an important and understudied aspect of sound reproduction. I have a client who is currently listening to a Sony Sound bar in a 10,000 cubic foot room at a listening distance of 4 meters and while it doesn't sound great, he doesn't think it sounds too quiet or weak. But once he gets real speakers in there, it will transform the sound.
Well, you're right about one thing. We don't agree. And I suspect we don't listen to the same kinds of music, and certainly not at the same volume. IMHO, It's far more important that speakers don't have any frequency response aberrations that will be particularly annoying on climaxes. I know certain people (like Amir over at ASR) claim they can hear .5% THD, but I simply don't believe it absent a controlled blinded test. I've had my speakers set up in a cavernous hotel conference room with thick carpeting, curtains, and acoustical ceiling tile, and no one complained about compression or any other kind of distortion--not even John Atkinson. I'm sure more headroom is a good thing at some point, but it usually requires sacrifices in other performance attributes or considerably increased cost, and there's a legitimate question as to whether it's worth those compromises for most people.
 
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