Coronavirus

[TLS Guy]

I call Bullsh$t,, Dr. doesn't know sh$t!, Said so in his statement in that NY times arcticle.

I disagree with Dr Spivak. One case of ITP after covid-19 vaccine does not prove causation. As I said before, ITP is not a terribly rare disease. Some patients require splenectomy as a last resort. Brain Hemorrhage as a consequence of ITP is an expected complication. ITP always has a very abrupt and acute onset. Unless there are more cases of fulminant ITP following Covid-19 vaccination, the case you sight is coincidental. With the number of people now vaccinated, if these vaccines were causative in ITP we would be seeing a lot more cases by now. Dr Spivak's remarks were irresponsible and he should not have made them.

I had 30 odd years treating very serious diseases including ITP and its complications. So I'm entitled to disagree with Dr Spivak.

You really need to stop discouraging vaccination. We have to push back against this nonsense you are spouting, hard. It should be obvious that these vaccines are much safer than catching Covid-19, and absent vaccination everyone will eventually be exposed. This is a high fatality infection and far higher than getting vaccinated.

We need to get 80% vaccinated ASAP. This will reduce dangerous mutations. I would also point out that there are studies showing identifiable long term effects in up to 70% of survivors. The most worrisome, is the high incidence of abnormal CT scans. An epidemic of early dementia down the road is something, many of us are really worried about. Then there is the worry of the high incidence of post covid-19 cardiac, pulmonary and renal abnormalities There are real possibilities that this pandemic may have a dreadful long tail. The last thing we need is people promulgating the nonsense that you are about the safety of vaccines.

 

[Gmoney]

I disagree with Dr Spivak. One case of ITP after covid-19 vaccine does not prove causation. As I said before, ITP is not a terribly rare disease. Some patients require splenectomy as a last resort. Brain Hemorrhage as a consequence of ITP is an expected complication. ITP always has a very abrupt and acute onset. Unless there are more cases of fulminant ITP following Covid-19 vaccination, the case you sight is coincidental. With the number of people now vaccinated, if these vaccines were causative in ITP we would be seeing a lot more cases by now. Dr Spivak's remarks were irresponsible and he should not have made them.

I had 30 odd years treating very serious diseases including ITP and its complications. So I'm entitled to disagree with Dr Spivak.

You really need to stop discouraging vaccination. We have to push back against this nonsense you are spouting, hard. It should be obvious that these vaccines are much safer than catching Covid-19, and absent vaccination everyone will eventually be exposed. This is a high fatality infection and far higher than getting vaccinated.

We need to get 80% vaccinated ASAP. This will reduce dangerous mutations. I would also point out that there are studies showing identifiable long term effects in up to 70% of survivors. The most worrisome, is the high incidence of abnormal CT scans. An epidemic of early dementia down the road is something, many of us are really worried about. Then there is the worry of the high incidence of post covid-19 cardiac, pulmonary and renal abnormalities There are real possibilities that this pandemic may have a dreadful long tail. The last thing we need is people promulgating the nonsense that you are about the safety of vaccines.

Doc, I'm not push sh$t, All I posted was its not 100% safe that vaccine. Tell me People haven't died from vaccines? Many have, Don't You feel that covid-19 vaccine should come with a warning that one could lose their life from it? With all do due respect I know your a retried ER doctor and have help more people stay alive and saved more people than I or anyone else on this forum could know. In my book there isn't enough people like you to go around. I can take getting my ass ate out by you cause you been there and got the book to prove it. I just read a few articles on the subject of vaccines, no I don't know sh$t when it comes to medical science. Like Swerd posted Lots of BS on the internet. I'm really trying to understand this covid-19 vaccine thing why? cause at 63 I'm really worried about taking that shot.

 

[TLS Guy]

Doc, I'm not push sh$t, All I posted was its not 100% safe that vaccine. Tell me People haven't died from vaccines? Many have, Don't You feel that covid-19 vaccine should come with a warning that one could lose their life from it? With all do due respect I know your a retried ER doctor and have help more people stay alive and saved more people than I or anyone else on this forum could know. In my book there isn't enough people like you to go around. I can take getting my ass ate out by you cause you been there and got the book to prove it. I just read a few articles on the subject of vaccines, no I don't know sh$t when it comes to medical science. Like Swerd posted Lots of BS on the internet. I'm really trying to understand this covid-19 vaccine thing why? cause at 63 I'm really worried about taking that shot.

Sure there have been vaccine complications, including fatal ones. However you can not transfer data from previous vaccines, to any of the currently available Covid-19 vaccines. These use totally different technologies, that are in no way comparable to any previous vaccines. All I can say is that these vaccines currently appear to be extremely safe, and very possibly safer, with less complications then former vaccines. If and when, we do see complications, they will almost certainly be different, and not likely have anything in common with previous complications. Obviously everyone is on the lookout for them. At this time we have not seen complications we can definitely attribute to mRNA or mDNA platforms. At the current time we only have two mRNA vaccines, however the UK has been distributing largely an mDNA vaccine and some mRNA vaccine.

 

[NINaudio]

Jesus Gmoney. It's not a dangerous thing, you need to get that out of your head. Is it 100% safe? No, nothing is.

If you look at VAERS, there are 682 reports of deaths for people who have had the covid vaccine (60 million doses), now they even tell you that this does not mean that it was the cause and in fact there have been zero cases where the vaccine was shown to have been the cause of death. So, absolute worst case scenario is that there are 0.011366 deaths per 1000 vaccinations given. In other words it is a 0.0011366% chance of a death being reported around the same time that someone got the vaccine. Now for the general population in the US, approximately 0.87% of it dies every year (~2,850,000 people). You vaccinate a poop ton of people, especially with a majority of them being in nursing homes, and there are going to be coincidences like this that pop up, in fact it's practically statistically impossible for those coincidences not to occur.

Now let's look at the fact that we've had over 19 million "closed" cases of coronavirus and over 500,000 deaths from it. That means that 2.627% of covid cases ended in death. You are, therefore, 2300 times more likely to die from catching covid than from getting the vaccine if you use the absolute worst case scenario numbers (for the vaccine). Extrapolate those numbers up to everyone in the USA being vaccinated and you end up with 3,700 deaths. That doesn't even add up to the two day death toll from coronavirus right now. If you extrapolate the numbers for how many people would die if the entire US population got covid it is over 84 million. For comparison, 36,000 people died in car crashes in 2019. Are you going to stop driving? You're way more likely to die from that than a vaccine.

Of course it will turn out that only a fraction of the reported deaths can be actually linked to the vaccine, at that point the numbers are even more convincing. Let's say that 10% of the reports are proved to be related to the vaccine, which is still probably much higher than reality. That means you would have a 0.00011366% chance of dying from getting it and that covid would be 23,000 times more deadly, and only 370 people in the entire USA would die if everyone got vaccinated. If 1% of those deaths are ACTUALLY related to the vaccine, then 37 people in the entire USA would die from getting it.

 

[cpp]

Like everything in life its a risk, nothing is 100% safe, Flu shots, smoking, drugs, overweight, drinking alcohol, driving, choking while eating hey you take a risk getting up in the morning. . Don't take the vaccine, which will allow those that want to, to. Its a personnel choice. My sister and my daughter both in the medical profession have seen what covid does to a person first hand. Both work at Mayo ( Jacksonville), noted its not pleasant seeing a healthy person on a ventilator, or watching someone recover from covid... My sister noted, "I'm just much more afraid of COVID than I am the vaccine," "I've seen people die. I've seen people very, very sick with covid.." Both have had their 2nd shot for a while now and both continue to support their patients each day.

 

[Swerd]

Jesus Gmoney. It's not a dangerous thing, you need to get that out of your head. Is it 100% safe? No, nothing is …

Thanks for walking us through the predicted risks. You don't have to know science or medicine to get that the risk of dying from COVID-19 is somewhere between 2,300 to 23,000 times greater than the risk of dying from the vaccine. I'll take those odds anytime.

And that's just the risks to an individual person. Only when at least 80% of the population is vaccinated will this dreadful pandemic end. Nothing else can do that.

 

[Swerd]

We're seeing more dangerous variants

 

[Mr._Clark]

I would not have guessed that West Virginia was one of the leading states when it comes to vaccination rates.

West Virginia's Vaccination Rate Ranks Among Highest In World

How did West Virginia become one of the world's leaders in delivering COVID-19 vaccines? One piece of the story starts with a striking photograph in the local paper.

www.npr.org

 

[Speedskater]

I would not have guessed that West Virginia was one of the leading states when it comes to vaccination rates.

Me neither, but the governor is a old-school Republican, that took charge and got things done. West Virginia is a rural hilly state with little money to burn.

 

[cpp]

FYI on Vaccination rates by states 2/19/2021 :

States ranked by percentage of COVID-19 vaccines administered: Nov. 30

Wisconsin has administered the highest percentage of COVID-19 vaccines it has received, according to the CDC's COVID-19 vaccine distribution and administration data tracker.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

Jesus Gmoney. It's not a dangerous thing, you need to get that out of your head. Is it 100% safe? No, nothing is.

I was going to say that if I ever start a band I'm naming it "Jesus Gmoney" but I see that there's already a musical artist with the moniker "G Money"

 

[Trell]

I was going to say that if I ever start a band I'm naming it "Jesus Gmoney" but I see that there's already a musical artist with the moniker "G Money"

Is the moniker "Jesus G Spot" available? Some traditional religious prudes might object to that moniker

 

[Mr._Clark]

This article comparing New York City's recent COVID surge to the first surge is somewhat interesting.

>>>Far fewer New Yorkers have been hospitalized or died from COVID-19 this fall and winter than last spring, even though the number of total cases over the last three months was 40% more than the opening stanza of the pandemic.<<<

The drop in the case fatality rate is good news, but it's still over 4%. This is more than double the 1.8% case fatality rate in the U.S. (see second link below). Unfortunately, the U.S. has one of the highest death rates per 100K population of any country (see second link below).

Why New York’s Last COVID Surge Was Far Less Deadly Than Its First

The case-fatality rate has plummeted. Is the city close to herd immunity? Is it ready to reopen?

gothamist.com

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[Mr._Clark]

The news reports so far about the California variants are not good.

>>>In a UCSF lab, scientists found that the L452R mutation alone made the California strain more damaging as well. A coronavirus engineered to have only that mutation was able to infect human lung tissue at least 40% more readily than were circulating variants that lacked the mutation. Compared with those so-called wild-type strains, the engineered virus was more than three times more infectious.

In the lab, the California strain also revealed itself to be more resistant to neutralizing antibodies generated in response to COVID-19 vaccines as well as by a previous coronavirus infection.

Compared with existing variants, the reduction in protection was "moderate ... but significant," the researchers said.

When the neutralizing antibodies went up against the homegrown strain, their effectiveness was cut in half. By comparison, when these antibodies encountered the coronavirus strain that's now dominant in South Africa, their effectiveness was reduced to one-sixth of their usual levels.

“I do anticipate over time it is going to have an effect on vaccination,” Chiu said. Though the magnitude of the effect varied from sample to sample and was less pronounced than with the South Africa strain, “it still is concerning,” he said.

Ominously, the new study also suggested the California variant could have greater virulence.<<<

California's coronavirus strain looks increasingly dangerous: 'The devil is already here'

California's coronavirus strain is more transmissible than its predecessors, is more resistant to vaccines and may cause more severe cases of COVID-19.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

I have not read the FDA review yet, but the J&J vaccine "completely prevented hospitalizations and deaths in a large clinical trial." Even if the J&J vaccine is less effective than the other vaccines, I'd certainly prefer it over no vaccine.

>>>A Food and Drug Administration review released Wednesday of the single-shot coronavirus vaccine made by pharmaceutical giant Johnson & Johnson found it was safe and effective and completely prevented hospitalizations and deaths in a large clinical trial.<<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/02/24/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine/

 

[highfigh]

Is the moniker "Jesus G Spot" available? Some traditional religious prudes might object to that moniker

Publicly, yes but in the heat of the moment, all you hear is "Oh god, oh god, oh god....". I wonder if atheists and agnostics use some other name.

 

[panteragstk]

Publicly, yes but in the heat of the moment, all you hear is "Oh god, oh god, oh god....". I wonder if atheists and agnostics use some other name.

Agnostic: "oh god that may or may not exist"
Atheist: "oh richard dawkins"

 

[TLS Guy]

It seems there is good news on the Vaccine front.

Israel has immunized about 50% of its population now with the Pfizer vaccine. Among major economies the UK peds, with 30% of the population receiving at least one dose. The vaccines seem to be equally effective against the UK variant. There is worry about the SA variant, but in Israel where the SA variant has high prevalence, now about 70%, the vaccines still seem to be highly effective, despite in vitro studies on antibody levels suggesting otherwise.

Israeli data, shows, the Pfizer vaccine, to be 89.4% effective at preventing laboratory confirmed infection. So this would imply a big reduction is asymptomatic spread. Israel only administers the Pfizer vaccine. However the Moderna is essentially identical, and so it is justified to reason that these results apply equally to the Moderna Vaccine.

In England the one dose of the Pfizer and Oxford astrazeneca vaccines reduced hospitalization 91% and 94% respectively.

A bigger study in Scotland showed similar results. That study was broken down by age, and both vaccines were equally effective in all age groups.

So both the Pfizer, (the Moderna vaccine, by implication) and the Oxford astrazeneca vaccine are highly effective vaccines. For the Oxford vaccine it shows that it is actually more efficacious than the phase III trials suggested. So the decision in the EU not to use it in over 55s was wrong. The Germans have gone into reverse gear but the French not. President Macron still maintains the Oxford vaccine is barely effective. That is nonsense and will, and is, harming his population.

The UK will start relaxing measures progressively every five weeks, starting March 8. This is to allow for proper assessments of each progressive step. The aim is to totally remove all restrictions except foreign travel on June 21. The aim to have the whole adult population have two doses by July 1. Studies in children are moving ahead. The aim is to have school children immunized by the start of the school year.

The UK will receive some Moderna vaccine in April. Both Modern and Oxford are editing their vaccines for the variants. The UK has made the decision to immunize the whole of the UK again in that fall, starting in September as a booster and in particular to give increased protection for variants. The decision has already been made to release these edited vaccines without trial.

In the US vaccinations seem to be picking up speed. It seems there is a variant that has been spreading in California that is more infectious and lethal than the native strain. This has almost certainly been spreading under the radar for some months. These highlights the need for genome decoding.

One last item of interest. Liverpool university is progressing with its vaccine to attack the nucleus of corona viruses, not spike antigens. The idea is to produce a universal vaccine against corona viruses. The rationale is that the nucleus of the corona viruses as a class is very stable. The aim is to develop a vaccine that will not be defeated by mutations in the spike antigens. This looks like a promising development.

 

[highfigh]

Agnostic: "oh god that may or may not exist"
Atheist: "oh richard dawkins"

Familiar with Firesign Theater?

"Oh blinding light, oh light that blinds. I cannot see, look out for me".

'Oh bog, oh bog, oh bog...".

 

[Old Onkyo]

The wife and I have appointments at Costco for the vaccine tomorrow.