For the Love of Audio & Hi-Fi. Is it Dead?

[killdozzer]

I'll try to explain this the best I can - to enjoy listening to music as it was recorded, you sort of need to have the exact same small near-field monitors and large far-field speakers in a room that is the same as the control room or the post production suite where it was mixed/EQ'd.

because the far-field speakers are often MASSIVE and could probably extend into the infrasonic range. When you switch over to nearfield with a sub, the sound is a little stratified by comparison,

Some still test the mix with the old Yamaha NS10S monitors (which is still on-topic I guess) - which are an acoustic suspension design, tighter than a.....tight thing. Some hate them, but I love them because the mix sounds so 'together'.

You have a funny way of totally agreeing with someone. I can hardly agree with any of these.

Bookshelves in your listening room are not meant to be in-stead of near-fields. It's not like you're being left short for towers. "Larger far-field" speakers lose their fullness progressively as your listening room grows bigger and you distance yourself from them.

It would also mean that if you have towers, you're missing bookshelves. I don't see it that way.

"Stratified" is a result of less than a perfect match. A single tower can sound stratified (to a trained ear, to me not so much) if the XO is a botched job.

Studios didn't use subs, but they didn't use CD players neither until it was a thing. Subs for music are a somewhat new thing. I think we'll see more of them in studios as time goes on.

As infrasonic as large far-field may play, they still may be in a wrong position for the lowest end of the audio band.

Going by your post alone, Yamaha's shouldn't sound "'together"' any more than they sounded in a studio. If they do, you're not "enjoying listening to music as it was recorded". Old Yamaha studio monitors sounded very coloured and tuning something to sound good on them would make it sound good (almost) only on them. That's what some people don't like about them.

OTOH using something as neutral as Genelec 8341A and perhaps having some decent Revels at home should IMO bring you closer to a very fine reproduction than chasing the gear originally used by the studio.

 

[Alderny]

Brilliant article! It rings so true and echoes many of my own views on this topic.

 

[Ren Kitchener]

Just a sidebar, I used to produce radio commercials and thus I have overseen production at several studios in my region, mostly supervision of voice over talent, SFX, and stock music selection; but, on some occasions full jingle production. From this experience I can tell you two things: first, a finished commercial mastered to DAT could indeed be indistinguishable from talent, off mic and sans sound reinforcement, reading commercial's script; and, second, the finished commercial on DAT could be played in my home via a system consisting of very divergent speakers (JBL L100t3's) than those in production studio (Tannoy) and still deliver an impression that the talent was in right there in my home. The bottom-line is I know from my experience in radio commercial production that recorded music can indeed sound exactly like the original performance regardless to it being an acoustic or sound reinforced electronic presentation. The thing is any recording we might be entertained by is not going to relate to personal experience with the orginal performance so we just don't know if what we are listening to sounds real.

A side-sidebar - this is good feedback - I guess you have a very good system at home, in a well damped room and/or are using nearfields, close up. I've never been able to replicate the sound I heard in the studio, at home - agreed, it still sounds 'fine' because I'm familiar with the content, but you need to flip, in zero time, between the two, to be able to compare properly. On the other hand, it could be a psychological thing, because a studio control room is an amazing place to be in, and it may perhaps, have tainted my perception. This is possible. Also the people you are with often makes a little difference - maybe. Nevertheless, a well designed and expensively equipped studio, is always going to be far better, in terms of sound quality, compared to my highly 'reflective' room, kitted out with 'cheap' equipment.

 

[Ren Kitchener]

OTOH using something as neutral as Genelec 8341A and perhaps having some decent Revels at home should IMO bring you closer to a very fine reproduction than chasing the gear originally used by the studio.

Now, I'm going to agree (properly this time) with the above. Monitoring and mixing with the 8341's is common nowadays. If you can afford them, they would be a good choice.

One post production engineer in LA I know is hooked on these Focals "He swears they are the most accurate speakers he has ever heard" Of course, this is his opinion.

 

[diskreet]

I fall into the "under 40" group mentioned at the end of the article. Absolutely, I have no emotional response to seeing older gear. I can understand the concept; my brain romanticizes old stuff I grew up with, too. The stuff might be different, but my irrational love for those things is the same. I even experience it a bit with my dad's records that I listen to occasionally. But I also know a stranger would see them as garbage in the same way I might look at your first amp

 

[Ren Kitchener]

As infrasonic as large far-field may play, they still may be in a wrong position for the lowest end of the audio band.

Are you saying that a £500,000+ studio would employ a 'builder', armed with only a spirit level, to position the far-fields where he, or she, thinks they would look nice? 'May be in the wrong position' is your opinion of how studios 'may be' designed and built killdozer. Let's assume they are in the right position so that you can agree with me on one point

 

[Emmgee]

Did we go to college together? I think we used to hang out at the same stereo stores I’m 67 years old and squarely within the demographic of this article. There is a photo of my old Advent speakers (which I wish I still had) right there. I must have hooked those up in 50 apartments and in my first house. I don’t know that I rose to the level of an actual audiophile but I did upgrade my system frequently and taking time and care to pick the right components was my MO. This Christmas I spent around $3000 to refresh my system and of course all my research was online. But it was as much fun to do that as it was to hang out in stereo stores in the 70s. BTW, my audiophile juices transferred to personal computers in the 1980s. This article was 100% spot on.

 

[killdozzer]

Are you saying that a £500,000+ studio would employ a 'builder', armed with only a spirit level, to position the far-fields where he, or she, thinks they would look nice? 'May be in the wrong position' is your opinion of how studios 'may be' designed and built killdozer. Let's assume they are in the right position so that you can agree with me on one point

I mean that under the threshold of placement detectability, you need to position the lowest end where the room dictates. In other words, you'd need builders who can predict that specific position and build the studio in such away to align low end with woofers and mids and tweeters. I think this is impossible. Releasing the lowest end from the main enclosure in order to be able to put it where it measures the best is desirable. This "where it measures best" is often not the place where you'd put your mains.

And once again, following your logic, you'd need builders to do the same for your listening room.

I hope I managed to explain myself. I wasn't aiming at criticizing or provoking you. I just stated what I don't agree with. Still, I may be wrong and you may be right. But let's not steal this thread and read what others have to say. We can start some other thread and talk about our expectations from home audio gear.

If you agree.

 

[jinjuku]

30 years ago I started my journey with a stack of Crown gear (DC 300A, DC 150A, IC 150) and DIY Karlson's with a Nakamichi tape deck and Pioneer CDP.

Today it's a 2.0 with DIY Statements, it's a DIY Sub's, it's a $79 Pi 3B+ driving an Emotiva DC-1 on an additional 2.0 setup with JBL 308p MKII's and matching LSR310's subs.

All from either a large ripped CD collection or streaming NAXOS' 20,000 album catalog for free with my Library or Amazon Music for on the go.

I couldn't be more in love with this hobby now. All these options weren't options 30 years ago.

 

[killdozzer]

I couldn't be more in love with this hobby now. All these options weren't options 30 years ago.

O, this is a huge point. People speak of golden age of home audio by the total sales. Honestly, going by how one can set the sound in his home today, never was there a more golden time. Much better gear (but uglier in my beholder's eye ) and much more controllable.

 

[Tschwahh75]

Far from dead. Just look at record sales. Look at the thousands of Facebook groups with young and old people buying up hifi equipment. Look at the price of a marantz 2285b today vs six years ago. Look at the crappy stereos they sell at Walmart and target that “look” like 70s hifi and sound like poop. Look at my house. Lol. Everybody I know has this stuff now. Only thing that is dead is the companies that thought they could sell us junk with lots of connectors and Bluetooth that all sounds like crap. While they make big bucks. Nope. People have these stereos that were made 40 years ago that still work and when they get a taste of that they get into modern “real” hifi like schitt , pa audio, McIntosh, parasound, mytek, etc

 

[Ren Kitchener]

View attachment 43747

I'm not a fan (there are fans of course) of a plain aluminium box with one aluminium knob in the middle and a tiny led in one corner. If you follow the Euro-rack/Modular Synthesiser scene, you will see how a lot of the younger generation are ditching their PC based synths for hardware now - there are knobs and patch wires all over the place - which is far more fun than touching a screen or moving a mouse, and having to trawl though a menu-driven nightmare. Some may ask - why do you need knobs for Hifi? - Well, your amplifier does, and it looks lovely.

 

[SwirlingMist]

The lack of tactile controls in modern products is a shame. I feel there is just as much love for audio quality in younger generations as any other. They just lack a landscape of affordable products that previous generations had at their fingertips. Coupled with a lack of disposable income from a lost decade post 2008, sound systems have become more aspirations than lived experiences. I just saw an article that Millennials have more than doubled their net worth in the last 4 years. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-09/young-american-adults-top-10-trillion-in-assets-for-first-time

I think it would be really helpful if people stopped hoarding all the vintage receivers and let the youth have access to affordable used equipment that has all that romantic tactile charm. Maybe do em a solid and service the machine before you pass it on.

 

[lovinthehd]

As an older guy I'm just the other way, really have no desire to put hands on the gear unless I have to. I like remote and internet control options a lot. While I can appreciate a nicely balanced/weighted knob or a solid switch, only want to use one if I have to . I also do not get excited about the process of using vinyl these days, done plenty of fussing with that stuff for a lifetime in general (even tho I still have my tt and collection).

 

[Ren Kitchener]

As an older guy I'm just the other way, really have no desire to put hands on the gear unless I have to. I like remote and internet control options a lot. While I can appreciate a nicely balanced/weighted knob or a solid switch, only want to use one if I have to . I also do not get excited about the process of using vinyl these days, done plenty of fussing with that stuff for a lifetime in general (even tho I still have my tt and collection).

I'm an older guy too, but I think that remotes are old fashioned and an annoying reliance (you still have to push buttons to get things to work - that is if the batteries are still alive and/or you can find it). The IoT, I think, is cheap, gimmicky and really annoying when it drops out or fails to hook up. I'm a 'lookist', hands-on person now - I don't need it, but I must have whatever that black gadget is at the bottom of this picture. It's vital for my survival. I know, it's probably a compressor - but who cares - it's a work of art. Surely that gadget would spark a little interest if it was a preamp with say an insertable 3-band parametric EQ or some DSP lovinthehd?

"Direct HMI is the new Black Box..."

 

[killdozzer]

I'd just love to have more money.

 

[lovinthehd]

Surely that gadget would spark a little interest if it was a preamp with say an insertable 3-band parametric EQ or some DSP lovinthehd?

No, doesn't do a thing for me but then I'm not into the recording side of things and already have more than enough playback gear....

 

[N6RTHERN]

I love how this article pops up after I buy a new DAC and premium auxillary cable from Amazon... Thanks Google for bashing my hopes and dreams...

 

[killdozzer]

I love how this article pops up after I buy a new DAC and premium auxillary cable from Amazon... Thanks Google for bashing my hopes and dreams...

If it's not too late to return the premium cable... Just thinkin' out loud.

 

[Ren Kitchener]

No, doesn't do a thing for me but then I'm not into the recording side of things and already have more than enough playback gear....

Ah, a preamp with an EQ insert isn't always limited to the recording side of things. But I appreciate your response.

When I was teaching electronics at college for a while, we had a few Bakelite AVO's with the large analogue meters and large knobs (they were obviously built to last). We also had a few smaller brand-new 'minimalist' LCD MMs. Without fail, my students (both male and female) would return with the AVO's. So this attraction to the old 'instant' hands-on electromechanical technology is probably a 'young thing' or an 'young engineers thing' perhaps.

Never the less, I do see, with the right effective marketing, the younger folk flipping over to 'old school' interactive hifi hardware in a similar way the DJ's and home music producers have (in their masses) - it's a huge market to tap into if someone was to take the lead. So, Hifi isn't dead, maybe it just needs to be repackaged and/or made more exciting/accessible. BUT - that's my opinion and my opinion alone.