Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

[VMPS-TIII]

Based on a couple of indicators, the main one being the SR7015 that has been measured at ASR, I would bet at least 3 to 1 that the AV7706 would measure about the same as the SR7015 but let's hope for the best.

I would be very disappointed if I bet right, because they appear to have increase the price significantly over the 7705. So I expect them to have the better performing HDAMs that the SR8015 apparently has been treated with. Again, we have to wait and see the measurements before we know for sure. For now, all we know is, the 2020 SR7015 is a disappointment, for those who care about measurements regardless of audibility.

It's odd how the Denon 3600, 3700, 4700 and 6700 measure significantly better than the Marantz models over at ASR. They are all from the same conglomerate so I imagine they share resources? @PENG - Do you think you would actually hear a difference in a listening test between the Denon vs Marantz models found on the chart below?

 

[Golfx]

Good morning all. I wish to thank all of you knowledgeable regulars for your kind advice. Surprisingly Crutchfield received an early shipment of Denon AVR a110s (and promptly sold out). Following advice received on this forum (PENG’s in particular) I purchased their last one. From reading Denon’s release notes it is an uptuned AVR 8500 with extra oversight in its assembly. I also ordered the power amp NAD CI 980 to drive my surrounds. I will be using the a110 as a prepro using none of its internal amps. I will be using Anthem’s MCA 325 to drive my fronts and center. Those are 4 ohm Polk Legends L800 and L400. Surrounds are 8 ohm deftech pro 1000s and dolby heights are 8 ohm SVS Prime Elevations. Subs are deftech Supercube 8000 and SVS PB 16 ultra. I am looking forward to hearing the results. I am currently using the Marantz SR 8012 for all but the Polks. I doubt I will “really” hear a difference. But at least I will have the smug bias that I chased the best possible mathematical purity for a multichannel AVR/AVP.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...Denon AVR a110s... I purchased their last one...I will be using the a110 as a prepro using none of its internal amps...

Wait, what?

Why would you buy a $5500 AVR with 13CH of internal amps and only use it as a processor and not use any of its 13Ch internal amps?

Why not just get a Pre-pro to begin with?

I think many members believe in getting AVRs, especially if the AVRs save them a lot of money, not if the AVRs cost them more money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also ordered the power amp NAD CI 980 to drive my surrounds

I don't see how this 50WPC amp this going to do a better job than the amps inside the $5,500 Denon a110.

 

[Gmoney]

I don't see how this 50WPC amp this going to do a better job than the amps inside the $5,500 Denon a110.

Top of the morning to ya Andrew Roeske!!
Hey hookup ya ole Cajun friend with a nice two channel Parasound amp.

 

[PENG]

It's odd how the Denon 3600, 3700, 4700 and 6700 measure significantly better than the Marantz models over at ASR. They are all from the same conglomerate so I imagine they share resources? @PENG - Do you think you would actually hear a difference in a listening test between the Denon vs Marantz models found on the chart below?

View attachment 42489

No I don't think I could hear a difference in direct/pure direct mode using analog inputs. I think some people may be able to hear a slight difference using digital inputs regardless of modes, but only if they listen hard and only with certain media contents that has a lot of energy in the above 10,000 Hz range.

The only thing that I could find, after comparing some schematics, that could explain the difference in bench test measurements are a) Marantz has the ill conceived (obvious they won't agree if asked..) HDAM placed between the pre out and power amp input, and b) they used a slow roll off DAC reconstruction filter that resulted in a slight roll off started at about 10 kHz, but down by only about 2.5 dB at 20,000 Hz, whereas Denon uses the typical fast roll off filter that most others use, resulting in a virtually flat FR to >20,000 Hz when digital inputs are used. Other than that, the two are practically identical in terms of parts and circuitry.

Regardless, the differences are mostly academic for most users, but that's just my opinion based on my extensive research on the audibility of distortions/noise as well as their (D vs M) known difference shown in publicly available info, including those in service manual, and also my own experience with two Marantz AVP and several Denon AVRs.

 

[PENG]

Wait, what?

Why would you buy a $5500 AVR with 13CH of internal amps and only use it as a processor and not use any of its 13Ch internal amps?

Why not just get a Pre-pro to begin with?

I think many members believe in getting AVRs, especially if the AVRs save them a lot of money, not if the AVRs cost them more money.

I think it is because he prefers one that has the best possible "sound quality" mathematically speaking (he sort of invented that term, not my credit), not audibly speaking.

 

[PENG]

Good morning all. I wish to thank all of you knowledgeable regulars for your kind advice. Surprisingly Crutchfield received an early shipment of Denon AVR a110s (and promptly sold out). Following advice received on this forum (PENG’s in particular) I purchased their last one. From reading Denon’s release notes it is an uptuned AVR 8500 with extra oversight in its assembly. I also ordered the power amp NAD CI 980 to drive my surrounds. I will be using the a110 as a prepro using none of its internal amps. I will be using Anthem’s MCA 325 to drive my fronts and center. Those are 4 ohm Polk Legends L800 and L400. Surrounds are 8 ohm deftech pro 1000s and dolby heights are 8 ohm SVS Prime Elevations. Subs are deftech Supercube 8000 and SVS PB 16 ultra. I am looking forward to hearing the results. I am currently using the Marantz SR 8012 for all but the Polks. I doubt I will “really” hear a difference. But at least I will have the smug bias that I chased the best possible mathematical purity for a multichannel AVR/AVP.

Excellent choice, except the surround speakers imo. Just curious why use those, you really think they deserve/need the NAD CI980?

 

[lovinthehd]

Excellent choice, except the surround speakers imo. Just curious why use those, you really think they deserve/need the NAD CI980?

And the "subs".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think it is because he prefers one that has the best possible "sound quality" mathematically speaking (he sort of invented that term, not my credit), not audibly speaking.

Gotcha, so he listens to the NUMBERS, not the actual components.

For everyone else, I think most members would agree that you shouldn't base all your purchasing decisions on ONE SOURCE of numbers. They are just numbers. One part of the equation or picture.

We've seen those numbers CHANGE. Overnight sometimes.

What happens in 1 year when someONE else has the latest measuring equipment and the numbers on this one source (ASR) are no longer the latest greatest?

Back in the "old days" we had MULTIPLE sources (AH, S&V, Stereophile, Soundstage, etc.).

Instead of focusing on ONE number and ONE source, look at the overall balanced picture.

 

[Golfx]

All, PENG is correct. Regarding the 50w NAD for my surrounds. It is a very clean 50w per channel all channels driven for 8 channels. I need precisely 8 channels for my remaining 7.2.4. My surrounds only require 10-150w each whereas my 4 ohm Polk mains and center need 250+ each minimum. Hence why I’m using an Anthem MCA 325 which delivers 400w per channel at 4ohms. So by having the NAD and Anthem amps setup I can easily switch to a prepro later. But only if I can achieve the same mathematical test numbers as the AVR a110 used without its internal amps. Besides the internal Denon amps would be 100+w into my small surrounds.

 

[lovinthehd]

You're overrating what constitutes clean IMO. No, your Polks don't "need" 250wpc unless your volume levels demand that. You don't match wattage the way you're doing it either. I can't imagine spending that much on an avr then not using its perfectly adequate amps.

 

[Golfx]

For PENG, the NAD was just a reasonable mistake proof choice. All the other 8 channel amps were inferior in quality. And it makes me feel smugly better

 

[mazersteven]

It's his money so who am I to say how he should spend it but just my opinion he could have spent it more wisely

 

[Golfx]

All I agree I could have spent less money. Especially if I never got hooked on this hobby. But I do like the way it makes me feel.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

If you are not going to use any internal amps it would be really hard to tell the 3700 or the 4700 setup in pre-amp mode with these same amps from the 8500 config. But if you ever decide to use those internal amps they are certainly powerful.

 

[mazersteven]

All I agree I could have spent less money. Especially if I never got hooked on this hobby. But I do like the way it makes me feel.

It's not the amount of money you spent. Its how you spent it.

 

[Golfx]

What? You mean others disagree with my decisions? I smile because it is expressly the variety of opinions and knowledge which makes this forum valuable for someone seeking advice. I don’t pretend to be your equals in knowledge. Just know it was a delight getting your help.

 

[lovinthehd]

What? You mean others disagree with my decisions? I smile because it is expressly the variety of opinions and knowledge which makes this forum valuable for someone seeking advice. I don’t pretend to be your equals in knowledge. Just know it was a delight getting your help.

Well undoubtedly in a forum you're going to get both advice and opinions which may agree or disagree. Seriously, about using the speakers "wattage" ratings to determine amps needed....gotta work on that. If you have room for some real subs, that would be another idea/opinion

 

[mazersteven]

I want to see those L800's in their environment. Where's the pictures? What finish?