Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

[ryanosaur]

I've heard that Anthem ARC Room Correction is difficult to use, same as the difficulty of Dirac.

And by most reports I’ve seen, ARC is also outperformed by Dirac.
Difficult to use is one thing, but difficult and less efficacious is another.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

And by most reports I’ve seen, ARC is also outperformed by Dirac.
Difficult to use is one thing, but difficult and less efficacious is another.

Seems like Dirac outperforms everything. Except possibly audyssey below 300hz. Seems a little more complicated too but there’s always a learning curve.

 

[PENG]

PENG. So if it was you, you would not buy the Anthem AVM90? Based on your past reliability experience and doubt about their ability to measure up to Denon’s results?

That is correct, as I said before, I like their power amps. I believe the recent AVPs may be too complicated for brands other than D+M, Sony, and Yamaha who have the needed resources to things right. That's just my opinion.

 

[ryanosaur]

Seems like Dirac outperforms everything. Except possibly audyssey below 300hz. Seems a little more complicated too but there’s always a learning curve.

The reviews of users over on the AVS HTP-1 Owners Thread is pretty stellar. Especially for the Bass Control Module upgrade.
There may have been one person that was not thrilled, but other than that isolated case... It's not even a discussion point over there any more.
I am not and Aud hater, which you know. I use it like you said, below my Schroeder Frequency, and am happy with it.
For all the conversations I've seen, though, YPAO is on the bottom, followed by Aud, then ARC, and well above that is DIRAC.

 

[Golfx]

That is correct, as I said before, I like their power amps. I believe the recent AVPs may be too complicated for brands other than D+M, Sony, and Yamaha who have the needed resources to things right. That's just my opinion.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The reviews of users over on the AVS HTP-1 Owners Thread is pretty stellar. Especially for the Bass Control Module upgrade.
There may have been one person that was not thrilled, but other than that isolated case... It's not even a discussion point over there any more.
I am not and Aud hater, which you know. I use it like you said, below my Schroeder Frequency, and am happy with it.
For all the conversations I've seen, though, YPAO is on the bottom, followed by Aud, then ARC, and well above that is DIRAC.

I would definitely agree with that order. Ypao is a hot mess IME and Yamaha has this weird optional front rear subwoofer thing that is totally useless.

 

[Golfx]

PENG I suspect your opinion comes from years of knowledge which I will heed. I still have time as both are unavailable still. Would like to see if new Marantz AV 7706 will test better as did the new SR8015. I believe the 7706 is in test now by someone at audioholics. At least I read that on another forum. Staying in the HEOS family keeps me from having to also buy a bluesound node 2i for streaming amazon music hd at 24/192. Anthem AVM90 does not have a pathway for that. Thanks to all of you for your comments and opinions.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...less efficacious is another.

Are we talking about Medications or EQ here?

One phrase I always use when I'm doing pain management consults - Titrate dose per Efficacy and Toxicity.

I suppose we could "titrate EQ per efficacy (awesome bass) and toxicity (listening fatigue)".

 

[Golfx]

I have currently a RX-V663 Yamaha that I purchased back in 2008. Due to life changes, disc degeneration in my lower back, and degradation due to diabetes, what I could easily administer I struggle with now. The manual is difficult to read and the menuing system used by Yamaha in the era the RX-V663 was designed in is awful. I am definitely looking at upgrading. I do have a budget, but at the moment am leaning after looking at the manuals to use of the Anthem MRX-740 that is soon to come out as my upgrade. I did try the YPAO sound correction in my AVR but never found it fully working in my favor acoustically. I do know the per channel amplifiers on the MRX-740 are specified at 140W per vs the RX-V663 at 95W per as in the manuals for both. As no one has the MRX-740 currently (Release pushed back to January from what I have seen) the only comparisons are between the MRX-720 and my RX-V663. Given this without money an issue here, is the ease of administration and the customer service worth it for the Anthem, or should I consider another AVR? I kind of like what I saw of the interface to deal with the MRX-740. Given a budget of $3000 what would you do?

i tend to exclusively buy from Crutchfield. They have outstanding customer support including free technical support for life. I rely on their support for unforeseen glitches.

 

[stalag2005]

I have currently a RX-V663 Yamaha that I purchased back in 2008. Due to life changes, disc degeneration in my lower back, and degradation due to diabetes, what I could easily administer I struggle with now. The manual is difficult to read and the menuing system used by Yamaha in the era the RX-V663 was designed in is awful. I am definitely looking at upgrading. I do have a budget, but at the moment am leaning after looking at the manuals to use of the Anthem MRX-740 that is soon to come out as my upgrade. I did try the YPAO sound correction in my AVR but never found it fully working in my favor acoustically. I do know the per channel amplifiers on the MRX-740 are specified at 140W per vs the RX-V663 at 95W per as in the manuals for both. As no one has the MRX-740 currently (Release pushed back to January from what I have seen) the only comparisons are between the MRX-720 and my RX-V663. Given this without money an issue here, is the ease of administration and the customer service worth it for the Anthem, or should I consider another AVR? I kind of like what I saw of the interface to deal with the MRX-740. Given a budget of $3000 what would you do?

If one has a good idea given my budget, does anyone have anything other to add? I am trying to get the best solution for setting up a 7.1 surround sound system.

 

[Cos]

Not to pour cold water, and I know facts and figures don't change people's mind when it comes to audio toys. Just that I thought you have been happy with the AV8802A so I got a little curious about your upcoming upgrade, or just update choices, so I hope you don't mind me sharing my thoughts, and what I consider logical thinking.. If you are still aiming for the best possible/theoretical sound quality, your practical choices, imo, would be the 2020 Denon AVRs, though I would wait to see what the changes will be for the 2021 models. Reason is simple, you have already been in the prepro mode and paid a lot for the 8802A, and bench tests have told us the truth, that you actually got more distortions and noise (THD, IMD, 32 tones etc.etc..), and their never bother upgrading the preamp chip in that $4,999/or was it $4,499 prepro. I've been there myself, twice, so I too, prefer AVPs, but won't spend a dime more on any, not until they actually use better parts and components in area that counts.

To be clear, I do find it ridiculous to, as I am now, use an AVR as a prepro. It is not that I believe I can hear a difference between the $6,000 or even $12,000 prepros 92-95 dB SINAD vs the Denon AVR's 97 to 100 dB (just arbitrary examples), and I know it would practically mean nothing to me. It is a matter of principles for me that it makes little sense to pay more for less, regardless. Likewise, on the REQ side, after having plotted so many FR graphs with REW, I know for sure Anthem ARC, Dirac Live, Audyssey+App, won't make any audible difference, people made all kinds of subjective claims, yet none has shown any evidence to support one is better (audibly), if anything, just the contrary.

LOL, feel free to poor cold water on it, I will never claim to be the most logical thinker and I tend to stick with brands I have had a positive experience.

Point 1: AV8802A

• Yes I have been in pre pro mode since early on with the AVM30. I was much more a noob than I am now, if that is possible . My dealer sold me the bill of goods on how much more detail I would hear with separates. I agree now that the audible difference between Pre/Pros and a Solid AVR is non existent. I use 2 receivers in other rooms and have no complaints.
• I paid $2500 for the AV8802 (later free upgrade to 8802A) which was a substantial discount from retail, because my dealer's former partners was trying to get my business, misquoted me and honored the price. I am buying my Persona's 3Fs from him, so it all worked out. I already have very nice amps, so didn't want go with an AVR. My thoughts having the extra parts (internal amps) etc cause more heat and are another part that can fail. The AV8802A was one of the first PRE/PRO or AVR to have HDMI 2.0 and full 4K passthrough. The cost for a comparable AVR with pre-outs including Atmos at the time was about the same or more, so it was a no brainer.
• Part of the reason I went with the AV8802A was because they were offering free upgrade to the HDMI 2.0 ports (board replacement), no other receiver was at the time was doing the same for full 18Gbs 4k ports.

Why Upgrade?

1. I would like to be able to handle 4K 120hz content because I still game and have both PS5 and Xbox 1SX
2. I would like the latest Dolby Vision & HDR video formats to be supported or pass through on my Pre Pro/AVR
3. I like ARC (Audio return channel) not Anthem ARC and would like eARC to do multichannel
4. I really don't believe that their would be much if any difference in SQ between my current model, it relates more to the video features
5. Why Anthem (Some logical, a lot not so logical)
   1. I have had nothing but a positive experience with their customer service (Paradigm included) Marantz, Denon, the exact opposite. Marantz Blu-ray drive that died all the time, my Slim receiver had a manufacturing defect with one of the wifi antenas and was a complete pain to deal with they blamed me, I ended up fixing it myself.
   2. Excellent customer service is support is why I tend to stick with companies, Parasound is another example of outstanding customer service, I like to support those companies that support the buyer.
   3. My dealer has really good relationships with Anthem, I know I am covered if I do have an issue I can't resolve.
   4. I like setup with Anthem ARC is easier for me because I learned early on how to use it from laptop and provides a lot of customization. Since I have used it before, I am more comfortable with it.

The Emotional Factor:

• I buy what appeals to me. For example, I demo'd a lot of speakers, and I will buy what sounds best to me. I do take into consideration what I have learned from these sites and people who are much better educated on audio, but the bottom line is I buy what I like. I get constant feedback that GoldenEar doesn't properly post measurements, etc, or Paradigm sounds too bright" I guess I am just ignorant. I take my 10-15 songs to every speaker I have demo'd, listen to each and pick what sounds best for me. I demo a lot! LOL. I even take the cosmetics into consideration when looking at speakers who were closely matched, at least this time around
• Part of the reason I haven't looked at Denon is, to me, they are just plain ugly (recent models) and look cheap on the outside. (except their very high end), It's why I have stayed with Marantz. I think Yamaha, Marantz and Anthem's new look are much more visually appealing.

 

[ryanosaur]

If one has a good idea given my budget, does anyone have anything other to add? I am trying to get the best solution for setting up a 7.1 surround sound system.

I would buy Denon or Marantz. I've been very happy with my SR6012, and am looking hard at the 3600 to add for our Great Room.
Once I got past a faulty Digital Board, my Marantz has been performing properly, and my only complaints are minor usability issues that seem to permeate all of the gear on the market to some extent or another.
(If I could choose specific AMP Channels (in an AVR) to activate/deactivate, that is what I want. If my speaker selection was not locked in to pre-planned and limited options: being able to activate any two combinations of 5 possible overhead Speaker Pair locations instead of being limeted to specific pairings, that is what I want).
Regardless, that is just my 2¢.

 

[Cos]

Does Anthem have good customer support? I haven't heard much about their customer support.

I've heard that Anthem ARC Room Correction is difficult to use, same as the difficulty of Dirac.

I never had issues with my AVM30, AVM50s. I did have operational questions and later when I was trying to learn the earlier versions of ARC. I always got a quick reply, and it was not some outsources customer service, so yes it was great.

I had a problem with my seismic 12 sub (Paradigm owns Anthem). They took my sub, tested it, did not charge me for the service, I just paid for shipping to them, they paid return. (It was out of warranty).

Marantz/Denon they have a service center near me. When they were told by Marantz they would not fix itI had to call Marantz customer service, I kept getting the run around from people who would push it up the ladder, then I would not get a reply back. I prefer to reward the companies that take care of me, even if I have to pay a few bucks more.

 

[pcosmic]

The reviews of users over on the AVS HTP-1 Owners Thread is pretty stellar. Especially for the Bass Control Module upgrade.
There may have been one person that was not thrilled, but other than that isolated case... It's not even a discussion point over there any more.
I am not and Aud hater, which you know. I use it like you said, below my Schroeder Frequency, and am happy with it.
For all the conversations I've seen, though, YPAO is on the bottom, followed by Aud, then ARC, and well above that is DIRAC.

Why is YPAO at the bottom? Care to explain?

 

[Sachb]

[*]Part of the reason I haven't looked at Denon is, to me, they are just plain ugly (recent models) and look cheap on the outside. (except their very high end), It's why I have stayed with Marantz. I think Yamaha, Marantz and Anthem's new look are much more visually appealing.
[/LIST]

I don't know how is Denon uglier than the Marantz. To me its the Marantz, which is the ugliest amongst the 3 (DMY). How can people pay a premium price tag & live with a pothole like display for the Marantz.

Does it help in any way? Can you even read the display if you're sitting far from the reciever.

Now the yamaha is also doing something similar by reducing the display size. Look at the newer models V6A etc.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Cos]

I don't know how is Denon uglier than the Marantz. To me its the Marantz, which is the ugliest amongst the 3 (DMY). How can people pay a premium price tag & live with a pothole like display for the Marantz.

Does it help in any way? Can you even read the display if you're sitting far from the reciever.

Now the yamaha is also doing something similar by reducing the display size. Look at the newer models V6A etc.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

It's personal preference, and my receivers and pre/pro are too far away to read. That being said, that is what onscreen displays are for. My Yamaha has a very nice display screen. Kudos to Yamaha, my $499.00 receiver (Costco last years model) looks solid and comes with the best remote in it's price range, it doesn't feel cheap. The display would not be a problem on the Anthem . The retail versions of Denon look very plastic.

 

[Sachb]

It's personal preference, and my receivers and pre/pro are too far away to read. That being said that is what onscreen displays or for. My Yamaha has a pretty nice screen. Kudos to Yamaha by the way, my $499.00 receiver (Costco last years model) looks solid and comes with the best remote in it's price range, it doesn't feel cheap. The display would not be a problem on the Anthem . The retail versions of Denon look very plastic.

Yes, cause Yamaha has in-house production i.e they manufacture their own stuff, and they don't outsource components/parts like how denon does. Their quality is always going to be better.

But Denon's plasticky looks isn't bad. Starting from X4000 series, look at their Silver models. They look amazing in silver.

But more than looks, I seek for quality sound and now I know where to look. It has been my best purchase till date, "Yamaha RX-A1080". Does the non- aventage lineup sound good?

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

It's personal preference, and my receivers and pre/pro are too far away to read. That being said that is what onscreen displays or for. My Yamaha has a pretty nice screen. Kudos to Yamaha by the way, my $499.00 receiver (Costco last years model) looks solid and comes with the best remote in it's price range, it doesn't feel cheap. The display would not be a problem on the Anthem . The retail versions of Denon look very plastic.

I prefer Marantz look too though I think Denon's quite okay, both look "plasticly" to me and we all know this is a subjective thing. I really the 2020 Yamaha's look and I thought the 2019 models were, while wouldn't call them uglier, but I would not want to hide them from view as much as possible. I like Anthem's amps but never like their looks, not even their flagship models, obviously you like them so I wish you success with their new AVPs in terms bug free and reliability.

 

[PENG]

PENG I suspect your opinion comes from years of knowledge which I will heed. I still have time as both are unavailable still. Would like to see if new Marantz AV 7706 will test better as did the new SR8015. I believe the 7706 is in test now by someone at audioholics. At least I read that on another forum. Staying in the HEOS family keeps me from having to also buy a bluesound node 2i for streaming amazon music hd at 24/192. Anthem AVM90 does not have a pathway for that. Thanks to all of you for your comments and opinions.

Based on a couple of indicators, the main one being the SR7015 that has been measured at ASR, I would bet at least 3 to 1 that the AV7706 would measure about the same as the SR7015 but let's hope for the best.

I would be very disappointed if I bet right, because they appear to have increase the price significantly over the 7705. So I expect them to have the better performing HDAMs that the SR8015 apparently has been treated with. Again, we have to wait and see the measurements before we know for sure. For now, all we know is, the 2020 SR7015 is a disappointment, for those who care about measurements regardless of audibility.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

It's personal preference, and my receivers and pre/pro are too far away to read. That being said that is what onscreen displays or for. My Yamaha has a pretty nice screen. Kudos to Yamaha by the way, my $499.00 receiver (Costco last years model) looks solid and comes with the best remote in it's price range, it doesn't feel cheap. The display would not be a problem on the Anthem . The retail versions of Denon look very plastic.

The Denon 4700 is nice looking. But the top grill is cheap. You can easily push on it and watch it give way toward the front middle of the receiver. I noticed that on both of my Denon 4700 models.