For the love of god or whoever … VOTE!

[Trebdp83]

I don't think there is a person in this forum who ever called the IRS and offered to give more because they felt they didn't give their fair share after filing their return. Are the very rich actually crooks for soliciting those whores in Washington? Yes, but those f#%kin' whores made it legal so go call one of them and complain.

 

[Trell]

No problem. When I get in a weird mood like this I argue with dolts like Trell. It is a bad habit, like eating junk food, or drinking flavored vodka.

And there you are again, just insults and deflections, like Trump.

 

[lp85253]

I am a tax expert, believe or not. They didn't pass that new tax law because it DIDN'T favor the the very rich who have lots of "passive" income. If you are just a workin' stiff getting a W-2 for your efforts, you are gonna' find that you are paying out more in taxes than you would if your government wasn't handing out money to the poor so that they could go buy things from the very rich. Then, when the rich and poor alike get out of any tax liabilty, the workin' stiff finds even more money coming out of his checks and can't afford that OLED TV he's been eyeing and starts sniffin' around the f#%kin' Westinghouse LCDs. But, at least he got a subsidy for his health insurance. Of course, he underestimated his income and has to pay some back through his tax return. Who the f#%k started the tax topic!? Ask me no questions, or my head will pop. I'll say this though. Americans from the poorest to the richest can blow money. What does it matter if you pull in a million dollars a year if you are spending two f#%kin' million and don't file a f#%kin' tax return and get into it with the federal and state tax agencies? Even our f#%kin' homeless are hoarders and they are broke as f#%k! If you not happy about any of it, write your f#%kin' representative and lay off of Irv! He can read me the tax code anytime.

trying to compare the tax load of the poorest Americans with the richest is a crock of poop.. and you probably know it.. which is just kinda surprising , that's not what i would expect from you .. people living in poverty pay a higher % of taxes out of total (disposable) income on sales tax alone than people of wealth do in total taxes .. you know this .. yet you post that hateful rant .. blame the poor .. easy.. let me tell you when it came to hand outs , somebody left me off the list...

 

[Trell]

Earth to Trell. Buffett didn't say his secretary paid more taxes, he said she paid a higher tax rate. Get a life.

Wow, did you managed to Google that all by yourself, or did you have to ask Siri? "She" (she's not real Irv, really) must had a very hard time to make any sense of what you are asking while you have no understanding of the reply: No.

 

[lp85253]

I don't think there is a person in this forum who ever called the IRS and offered to give more because they felt they didn't give their fair share after filing their return. Are the very rich actually crooks for soliciting those whores in Washington? Yes, but those f#%kin' whores made it legal so go call one of them and complain.

and that's why we need a buncha socialist lawmakers.. you guys make every argument *for*socialist agenda's .. then laugh at us for suggesting we implement the real fix to the problem...

 

[Trebdp83]

trying to compare the tax load of the poorest Americans with the richest is a crock of poop.. and you probably know it.. which is just kinda surprising , that's not what i would expect from you .. people living in poverty pay a higher % of taxes out of total (disposable) income on sales tax alone than people of wealth do in total taxes .. you know this .. yet you post that hateful rant .. blame the poor .. easy.. let me tell you when it came to hand outs , somebody left me off the list...

Who's laughing at the idea of change? Why would you expect anything from me or anybody else on this site? The poorest Americans don't pay income taxes. Not all states have a sales tax, though most do. Some poor folk work and make a handful of peanuts and file a return and get a bag full of peanuts in the form of "earned income" credits. Some are poor because they think they can piss away five bucks and then go beg for ten. Some "poor" people had the misfortune of being born into families that have worked the system for generations. Some of the very wealthy are even better at working the system generation after generation. They can blow millions and get their paid for politicians to hit up the poor to get it back. Some people bust their ass and make some good money. Some are born into it and are lazy pieces of s#%t. Some folks had it together and then life hit em' where they live and they ended up with an addiction or other illness that cleaned them out. There are whores on the right AND the left sucking off the rich and their are whores on the left AND the right patronizing the poor. There are people in the middle that can't get a f#%kin' word in! Not every wealthy person is a thief and not every poor person is a victim. But, in a country where money means more than anything else, some people are gonna get ahead while many more are left behind. If you find that life in your area of the world is twice as hard as you would like it to be then you had better try twice as f#%kin' hard or find a way to get the f#%k out. Is any of it fair? Nope. But we will all be dead and gone before the world conforms to anybody's idea of fair so we better find some kind of f#%kin' joy in this life before it is all over because it is the only life we get no matter what Shirley F#%kin' Maclaine has to say about it!

 

[lp85253]

Who's laughing at the idea of change? Why would you expect anything from me or anybody else on this site? The poorest Americans don't pay income taxes. Not all states have a sales tax, though most do. Some poor folk work and make a handful of peanuts and file a return and get a bag full of peanuts in the form of "earned income" credits. Some are poor because they think they can piss away five bucks and then go beg for ten. Some "poor" people had the misfortune of being born into families that have worked the system for generations. Some of the very wealthy are even better at working the system generation after generation. They can blow millions and get their paid for politicians to hit up the poor to get it back. Some people bust their ass and make some good money. Some are born into it and are lazy pieces of s#%t. Some folks had it together and then life hit em' where they live and they ended up with an addiction or other illness that cleaned them out. There are whores on the right AND the left sucking off the rich and their are whores on the left AND the right patronizing the poor. There are people in the middle that can't get a f#%kin' word in! Not every wealthy person is a thief and not every poor person is a victim. But, in a country where money means more than anything else, some people are gonna get ahead while many more are left behind. If you find that life in your area of the world is twice as hard as you would like it to be then you had better try twice as f#%kin' hard or find a way to get the f#%k out. Is any of it fair? Nope. But we will all be dead and gone before the world conforms to anybody's idea of fair so we better find some kind of f#%kin' joy in this life before it is all over because it is the only life we get no matter what Shirley F#%kin' Maclaine has to say about it!

it's a bit tiring seeing poor people scapegoated ... Every time i read or hear some right wingnut blame his taxes on the poor i feel like punching the asshole in the forhead... So take it for what it's worth .. I Don't have your missing riches.. Look at the douche nozzle in the WH currently if you want to know where it went..and i don't want to hear any more bullcrap about taxes and the poor outta you.. Because we both know you know better..

 

[Irvrobinson]

Wow, did you managed to Google that all by yourself, or did you have to ask Siri? "She" (she's not real Irv, really) must had a very hard time to make any sense of what you are asking while you have no understanding of the reply: No.

No, I read the original story in 2013. Again, get a life.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Not all opinions are of the same weight,
...

Precisely. Like the moon landing/ Astronauts word carry a ton vs all the conspirators.
Or, the experts on the 9/11 structural engineers, explosive experts vs the conspirators.
And on it goes.

 

[Trebdp83]

I’m also tired of hearing greedy a$$holes complain about poor people picking up the pennies they dropped because they couldn’t hold on to all of that money. I’m also tired of poor people complaining about the rich for all of their own problems. Being poor is not a life sentence. You make the most of what you’ve got or else you are just a f#%kin’ burden on everybody. Bitchin’ and moanin’ about the rich never got anybody out of poverty. There were far more “poor” people who voted for that a$$hole and got him elected than rich because they were too stupid to know that The Apprentice was a f#%kin’ TV show and not real life. Their f#%kin’ grandparents use to write to Lucille Ball and ask about little f#%kin’ Ricky. It also didn’t help that Hillary Clinton is a phony career politician and the world’s most unlikable bitch. When the rich leave scraps for the poor, the poor have no business blowing those scraps on lottery tickets. Maybe go to night school instead of the Indian Casino. Everybody needs to stop chasing the dragon and thinking that being the richest means being the best. There are some things money just cannot buy, like integrity or character. If you could, our President wouldn’t be the world’s biggest prick.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Don’t be stupid. I just stated that we don’t know pertinent facts.

WB did state the tax% he paid and what his secretary paid .

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I did not say Buffett lied, but he didn't talk about his secretary's tax rate or her income, ...

he gave tax rates to his and hers, not the totals, the rates. If I remember, she was in the 20s and his low teens or less.

 

[Irvrobinson]

he gave tax rates to his and hers, not the totals, the rates. If I remember, she was in the 20s and his low teens or less.

If we go back to Buffett's original please-tax-me-more discussion, which I just found again after losing it, he made the argument in a 2007 interview:

Buffett's Estate Tax Ear-Bender

The billionaire investor took his pro-estate tax campaign to Capitol Hill.

www.forbes.com

So Buffett has a small army of CPAs and attorneys formulating his tax strategy, pays himself low wages, makes the majority of his ~$50M dollar income from capital gains and dividends, and then compares his net federal tax rate of 18% to his average office rate of - wait for it - 33%. That was quite a well-compensated office staff for 2007 in Omaha. So... using the 2006 married filing jointly tax tables, here:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i1040tt--2006.pdf#:~:text=%20%20%20Title%20%20%202006%20Tax,Created%20Date%20%20%2011%2F3%2F2006%206%3A13%3A14%20PM%20

It looks like to get a net rate of 33% you'd probably need a household income of about $400-500K per year in wages, depending on income and deduction factors (which were a lot better then than they are now). Not bad at all. And, as I pointed out earlier, Buffett pays himself only $100K per year, even then. So please-tax-me-more Warren seems to be complaining about how his taxes are low, but obviously uses his tax management army wisely.

Given how much he's been giving away lately it wouldn't shock me to find his 2020 tax rate to be in the single digits percent.

I think billionaires should stop whining about their embarrassingly low tax rates, and if they feel guilty about it just mail the treasury a donation every year (the address is in the Form 1040 instructions). I'm not a big Buffett fan. He works the system for every dime possible, and then complains because the laws allow it. And then he hides his estate in the Gates Foundation to escape estate taxes. Nope, not a big fan.

 

[Irvrobinson]

it's a bit tiring seeing poor people scapegoated ... Every time i read or hear some right wingnut blame his taxes on the poor i feel like punching the asshole in the forhead... So take it for what it's worth .. I Don't have your missing riches.. Look at the douche nozzle in the WH currently if you want to know where it went..and i don't want to hear any more bullcrap about taxes and the poor outta you.. Because we both know you know better..

Who exactly blames their tax rate on the poor? That's not rational. For one thing, the math doesn't work.

The fundamental unfairness in the US tax system is that wages are taxed at a higher rate than capital gains, dividends, and carried interest and at far lower income levels. And there's the expense and loss deduction advantages not easily or generally available to wage earners. There is also an interesting discussion to be had that Social Security taxes are not progressive.

 

[mtrycrafts]

If we go back to Buffett's original please-tax-me-more discussion, which I just found again after losing it, he made the argument in a 2007 interview:

Buffett's Estate Tax Ear-Bender

The billionaire investor took his pro-estate tax campaign to Capitol Hill.

www.forbes.com

So Buffett has a small army of CPAs and attorneys formulating his tax strategy, pays himself low wages, makes the majority of his ~$50M dollar income from capital gains and dividends, and then compares his net federal tax rate of 18% to his average office rate of - wait for it - 33%. That was quite a well-compensated office staff for 2007 in Omaha. So... using the 2006 married filing jointly tax tables, here:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i1040tt--2006.pdf#:~:text=%20%20%20Title%20%20%202006%20Tax,Created%20Date%20%20%2011%2F3%2F2006%206%3A13%3A14%20PM%20

It looks like to get a net rate of 33% you'd probably need a household income of about $400-500K per year in wages, depending on income and deduction factors (which were a lot better then than they are now). Not bad at all. And, as I pointed out earlier, Buffett pays himself only $100K per year, even then. So please-tax-me-more Warren seems to be complaining about how his taxes are low, but obviously uses his tax management army wisely.

Given how much he's been giving away lately it wouldn't shock me to find his 2020 tax rate to be in the single digits percent.

I think billionaires should stop whining about their embarrassingly low tax rates, and if they feel guilty about it just mail the treasury a donation every year (the address is in the Form 1040 instructions). I'm not a big Buffett fan. He works the system for every dime possible, and then complains because the laws allow it. And then he hides his estate in the Gates Foundation to escape estate taxes. Nope, not a big fan.

Yep, time for a meaningful rewrite of the tax codes to manage these ugly loopholes and manage it better.
Maybe we need to go back to the Clinton era tax codes? We had a surplus for two years.

 

[Trebdp83]

you really ought to stop throwing poop against the wall, you even believe your own brand of it...the only problem you have in this conversation is: you are talking to somebody that actually has lived below the poverty line for years.. so telling me why / how it happened when you haven't a fucking clue how it happened is the height of arrogance.. you aren't talking to some other pissed off dipshit *about the other guy..... i am the other guy*, you got nothin but lame cliches and talking points, no actual depth of thought , just a regurgitated am radio spin...take that weak stuff outta here..

I never said anything about how YOU ended up in your situation and you don’t know a f#%kin’ thing about mine because I don’t wear a snot rag on my f#%kin’ sleeve. People with more severe physical and mental challenges than your own have managed to live productive and happy lives. People born with every advantage have pissed them all away. At what point did you resign yourself to be the other guy and blame the rich for your misery? Humans are amazing AND horrible creatures at the same time. You wanna’ waste what years you have left cryin’ over it, that’s your choice. A better attitude doesn’t cost anything.

 

[Hobbit]

Who exactly blames their tax rate on the poor? That's not rational. For one thing, the math doesn't work.

The fundamental unfairness in the US tax system is that wages are taxed at a higher rate than capital gains, dividends, and carried interest and at far lower income levels. And there's the expense and loss deduction advantages not easily or generally available to wage earners. There is also an interesting discussion to be had that Social Security taxes are not progressive.

I haven't been following this thread, but I just had this conversation with a friend. It's surprising how many people don't understand this.

To other comments:

Of course WB, and others like him, lawyers and actuaries take every tax advantage they can. I take advantage of any tax break I can get! Of course he takes a low salary. Most successful single proprietor business owners do the same thing for the tax break and future benefits.

Keep in mind WB's stocks and assets are like yours and mine, they're not taxed until they're sold. Also note BRK doesn't pay dividends. When I was given company stocks I wasn't taxed on them until I sold them. Under Clinton they did limit this (at least for the lower level peons like me).

Likewise, I know retired people who've had a very good life but now live rather frugally. They have beautiful houses that are paid for. They don't spend that much money so they don't sell a lot of their assets and take minimum distributions keeping their income low enough to even get a stimulus check. Nicely, they donated their checks to charity. WB may have received a stimulus check. LOL! It doesn't matter how much your worth, just how you tap into and spend that wealth. Which goes back to starting a business and paying yourself a salary.

WB donated over $46 billion since 2k. That's about 1/3 of his net worth. I'm sure his lawyers and actuaries worked hard maximizing the donations and minimizing his taxes.

I'm not disagreeing the tax code needs work, but no one I know is going to pass up deductions (or not cash that stimulus check).

 

[Trell]

No, I read the original story in 2013. Again, get a life.

So now you remember it? Carry on boomer.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yep, time for a meaningful rewrite of the tax codes to manage these ugly loopholes and manage it better.
Maybe we need to go back to the Clinton era tax codes? We had a surplus for two years.

The surpluses were capital gains taxes from the dot-com bubble. I also suspect that many people got caught in the snare of Incentive Stock Options, owing taxes on unrealized income that suddenly vanished when the bubble burst. I know some people who lost a lot, sometimes millions, in that fiasco. I sure did like the deductions and credits back then, especially employee relocation benefits. Most are gone now, and I use the standard deduction.

 

[Irvrobinson]

So now you remember it? Carry on boomer.

That’s all you’ve got? OK Boomer? Pathetic.