For the love of god or whoever … VOTE!

[davidscott]

It won't be over, though, and the weeks since the election has shown that G.O.P. at a national level is embracing fascism.

I think (hopefully) the some saner heads in the Republican party will prevail. The Democrats seem to have elected a moderate leader and I hope we don't veer too far left. So lets hope for the best with this new Admin and I for one am on board.

 

[lovinthehd]

Veering left in the US? Hardly. If you're on the right it might seem that way I suppose, but it's hardly real left.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

It won't be over, though, and the weeks since the election has shown that G.O.P. at a national level is embracing fascism.

So, I have to say, I just really don't get the GOP position here. Even in the face of a power grab, or whatever they're calling this business. The whole testing the limits of our Democratic Republic. Not to be the broken record on an A/V forum, but here I go again with the History Lesson.

I'm complete brevity, it's this simple. No Democracy, or Republic, in the history of Western Civilization has ever survived. Not one. Maybe not all the same reason, but truly, not one. And the Founding Father's were keenly aware of thus, AND the obvious dangers and completes disregard for any Monarchy.

So in creating our Republic this was all front and center in the minds of these men. As was the very idea of an overly powerful Executive. So the office by definition early on from jump, was meant to be of limited power and authority. (this is all very, very over simplified, but the outline is accurate)

Over the years the GOP / Conservative party has been so successful running a basic platform that is an extention of these essential themes. So States Rights, and an unquestioned check on the Federal Govt, and on particular the Presidency.

But now somehow, the plan has been subverted, by the far right of thier own party. And even now appears to be completely and entirely subjugated to guess what. A strong, over bearing, norm ignoring, stomp on everyone, ESPECIALLY the States, Executive. WTF..? Where did the platform go..?

Look another way. A cancer invades your system. Your body trues to fight it off but is initially unsuccessful. So does one just give up, roll over and do nothing as the cancer mestasisizes and corrupts the whole body.? Seriously? How and when would anyone think that was gonna work.

So now you've given over the jet's to the castle. You've pretty much cripples yourself and done nothing but feed the cancer, and now will honestly think you can play along until January Senate races in GA before even trying to reconstitute your party..?

Raise your hand if you think that will work.

Now here's another thought... If the Trumtwats are all going to stay loyal, and you're playing this game to keep them in line, how will you ever break free? On the other hand, if the AssClown thinks he will try to run again in 4 years, are you really going to take him back with open arms..? an impeached and (likely by then) convinced criminal..? OMFG, come on now...

My point I guess is that if they had stood up from the beginning and not given over the whole kit and kiboodle, they might have a chance to break free now. But by going along, all they've accomplished is, I think, the destruction of thier entire party. With half to 3/4 of it in the control of a 2 bit Con Man, Carnival Clown, who commands the minds and votes of some 50 million or more of what used to be your Political Party.

I just never understood the plan. And it only took a 5 minute Google search, or an hour long Documentary for you to have seen 4 year ago exactly how this was going to end.

I'm really not sure how this turns out, but if the 2 GA seats don't go to the Dems, or they split and McConnell continues his obstructionist game plan, Biden won't get anything accomplished. And it'll be at least 2 years of nothing, until we vote again.

(Sorry this was a reply, and it went on so long. Was meant to be shorter. And I should have made a new post.). Anyway nobody will read it. It's got TLDR written all over it..!

 

[Dude#1279435]

I seriously think he might be suffering from early stage dementia. The guy is obviously losing it. What a sad sad end to the legacy of a man who was called "America's Mayor" after his heroic actions after 911. I wish his children would get him some help.

I believe it was his daughter he openly came out and said she voted for Biden.

In other news, sounds like there will be a second count in GA.

 

[Ponzio]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the issue where DJT recently ordered the Pentagon to draw down our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, while simultaneously putting maximum pressure on Iran.

And he went to a military school when he was a kid? They never taught basic military tactics there? Un ... freaking ... real!

I'm assuming the Pentagon is slow-walking the orders but still you have to start wondering about his mental stability at this point. It's like Hitler in the bunker at the end.

 

[highfigh]

@highfigh The silence is deafening

Sorry, had other things to do.

This is the ugliest presidency we have had and we had some ugly ones.

 

[highfigh]

they don't need a "nest egg" they both receive full salaries and healthcare for life .. Hillary at senate wages , Bill as president. ...

Right, but the common definition of 'nest egg' is very different from what they have made.

You may have forgotten that they also get secret service protection for life, too.

 

[highfigh]

fb post(or other social media)? that's most likely a repost of a troll bot post designed to get the reaction you gave.. distrust in the country that gave you the opportunity to be you...whatever that ended up being...

I didn't have a violent or strong reaction, it just reminded me about the number of ballots I had received. Personally, I like voting in person and since 75% of the votes in this suburban city had been mailed or carried in, I didn't think it would be risky to go. Took less than 5 minutes, had a couple of laughs and I left.

My distrust is caused by the past 50+ years of seeing our government and country slipping toward disfunctionality and losing any common goals- not talking about nationalism in the goose-stepping and saluting form, but there's not a lot of cooperation happening now. Congress and Presidents caused this through legislation that granted free passage to super wealth without paying their share and causing the class jealousy that is everywhere, bad trade agreements that cost jobs and gave preferred trading partner status to a country that has become the main source of goods sold here, which is a very dangerous policy because making the sole source angry lets them end our supply and causing a cascade of business losses.

 

[lp85253]

Right, but the common definition of 'nest egg' is very different from what they have made.

You may have forgotten that they also get secret service protection for life, too.

of course , my point was, the thought they *need* more than what they already get is an unfathomably 1st word thought...it's simply not an issue to anyone who doesn't feel entitled , imo...i actually laughed at the thought of any ex president worrying about such a thought...it , imo, is truly a "when is enough,, enough" thought..

I didn't have a violent or strong reaction, it just reminded me about the number of ballots I had received. Personally, I like voting in person and since 75% of the votes in this suburban city had been mailed or carried in, I didn't think it would be risky to go. Took less than 5 minutes, had a couple of laughs and I left.

My distrust is caused by the past 50+ years of seeing our government and country slipping toward disfunctionality and losing any common goals- not talking about nationalism in the goose-stepping and saluting form, but there's not a lot of cooperation happening now. Congress and Presidents caused this through legislation that granted free passage to super wealth without paying their share and causing the class jealousy that is everywhere, bad trade agreements that cost jobs and gave preferred trading partner status to a country that has become the main source of goods sold here, which is a very dangerous policy because making the sole source angry lets them end our supply and causing a cascade of business losses.

you just admitted to falling into the set of people fake trollbot posts target ..and the fact that you didn't react violently is not a part of the equation.. they know some will... it's about the ability to change the course of the world by use of dis =information... trump and his allies (Putin?) use it well ,, you think he didn't learn it from somebody that does is better?.. do yourself a favor and never let social media change your thoughts or plant a seed of doubt.. 1/2 the country already does and our real enemies are using it as a weapon...edit: how would massive voter fraud in "Democratic cities" even happen.?. you'd have to coordinate 1000's of people to plan , vote , and cover up said fraud .. and *NOBODY* grow an set of balls and morals and expose it.. it's nothing but Donny , Rudy, and a few political lapdogs that are expounding on this folly...

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

I didn't have a violent or strong reaction, it just reminded me about the number of ballots I had received. Personally, I like voting in person and since 75% of the votes in this suburban city had been mailed or carried in, I didn't think it would be risky to go. Took less than 5 minutes, had a couple of laughs and I left.

My distrust is caused by the past 50+ years of seeing our government and country slipping toward disfunctionality and losing any common goals- not talking about nationalism in the goose-stepping and saluting form, but there's not a lot of cooperation happening now. Congress and Presidents caused this through legislation that granted free passage to super wealth without paying their share and causing the class jealousy that is everywhere, bad trade agreements that cost jobs and gave preferred trading partner status to a country that has become the main source of goods sold here, which is a very dangerous policy because making the sole source angry lets them end our supply and causing a cascade of business losses.

I certainly can't speak to your distrust of Government. That's your belief, and you have every right to it. But when you back it up with poor or limited information you sorta open yourself up to criticism.

You've taken a very narrow and seemingly somewhat uninformed rationale here. If I understand, over the past 50 years a couple presidential decisions and a couple of congressional issues have thrown you off. Personally I think there are quite a few positive things that have also happened or at least attempted on the last few decades. I suppose it's all in your overall interpretation, balanced against your expectations..?

 

[highfigh]

of course , my point was, the thought they *need* more than what they already get is an unfathomably 1st word thought...it's simply not an issue to anyone who doesn't feel entitled , imo...i actually laughed at the thought of any ex president worrying about such a thought...it , imo, is truly a "when is enough,, enough" thought..

you just admitted to falling into the set of people fake trollbot posts target ..and the fact that you didn't react violently is not a part of the equation.. they know some will... it's about the ability to change the course of the world by use of dis =information... trump and his allies (Putin?) use it well ,, you think he didn't learn it from somebody that does is better?.. do yourself a favor and never let social media change your thoughts or plant a seed of doubt.. 1/2 the country already does and our real enemies are using it as a weapon...

If you have watched the Simpson's, remember the episode where Homer and Burns were teammates during a Winter retreat and became stranded in a cabin, which resulted in them getting to know each other better. At one point, Homer said "Mr Burns, you're the richest guy I know- way richer than Lenny" and Burns replied "Oh, yes but I'd trade it all for a little more".

As far as 'enough', remember what Obama said about people having enough?

Personally, I don't give a rat's butt what someone else has (well, I kind of care if they screwed everyone int heir path to get it on the principle of it) but Congress is pouring gas on that fire by talking about the wealthy as if they aren't and that's one of the problems I have with it. I have wealthy customers and while they're generally nice, they sometimes show their true colors, at times. Some, more than others- a few haven't really done it in the time I have known them. I know someone who wrote a song called 'Mr and Mrs Money' and one line contains "...and their favorite word is 'more' ". I know people like that and in contrast, the one who probably has more than the rest has said "If I'm paying a lot in taxes, it means I'm making money". I would like to see the outstanding tax debt paid by the wealthiest but that's really a pipe dream. It really would go a long way to help people, though.

Personally, I don't like most of what I see on Facebook and I don't use any of the others- too much of it is just untrue and I'm tired of people who had been friends bitching at each others. I think most social media has become a blight and there's been some debate about whether Facebook and Twitter should be considered to be a 'publisher' or 'platform'.

One of my customers has a sign that he puts out during election cycles with "This Sign Will Totally Change The Way You Vote" on it.

 

[highfigh]

I certainly can't speak to your distrust of Government. That's your belief, and you have every right to it. But when you back it up with poor or limited information you sorta open yourself up to criticism.

You've taken a very narrow and seemingly somewhat uninformed rationale here. If I understand, over the past 50 years a couple presidential decisions and a couple of congressional issues have thrown you off. Personally I think there are quite a few positive things that have also happened or at least attempted on the last few decades. I suppose it's all in your overall interpretation, balanced against your expectations..?

Rather than just tell someone that you think they're wrong, why not show why?

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Rather than just tell someone that you think they're wrong, why not show why?

Well I didn't exactly say you were wrong did I..? I think my point was that you're obviously entitled to your opinion and belief, but you just referenced a few policies that were the result of potentially good ideas that went bad. I mean that's just life right..? Not everything turns out how you might hope. So my concern was intended to consider, what you expect from the Federal Govt..?

This whole conversation reminds me of my Baby brother. He often says and seems to think the same way, and I honestly don't understand much of it, but as I ask him more and more for the reasons why, his argument seems to lose its legs.

I'm a bit older, maybe. I learned about things on the streets, learned about much of the world in the Service, and specifically the Govt in those same years, and following years since dealing with the VA. I have every right and experience to be wary of the Govt. They've been giving me the business most of my life.

My Brother however, had all the opportunity I didn't. And as a highly educated white man working at Merrill Lynch and raking in more in most years that I made in 2 or 3 years. But he's ajar going on about not trusting the Govt because of the $50 toilet seat. It's just a very limited viewpoint, and doesn't take into account any of the Govt policies that allowed him to get to where he is now. I guarantee you, growing up in the same family I did, that he didn't pay for 4 years at the University of Michigan and live in Ann Arbor on Dad's Cop Salary alone.

So maybe I was projecting a bit, but again, it comes back to what you expect vs what you believe and often the truth is harder to see...

The Govt is deeply flawed. But some things they get right also. The Affordable Care Act. And if things go right, the investment in and transformation to a Climate based economy and power grid are a few positives I think we can count in recent years and near future.

This 5 year vaccine in 6 months is something only a Federal Govt could probably pull off. Especially if you count the distribution.

I guess I'm just saying, that yes... Clearly things go wrong. But things go right. Sometimes

What did Reagan say? Trust but verify...

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the issue where DJT recently ordered the Pentagon to draw down our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, while simultaneously putting maximum pressure on Iran.

And he went to a military school when he was a kid? They never taught basic military tactics there? Un ... freaking ... real!

I'm assuming the Pentagon is slow-walking the orders but still you have to start wondering about his mental stability at this point. It's like Hitler in the bunker at the end.

I actually did mention this a bit earlier. Remember the Russian' s Bounty offer... Makes this even more concerning in my opinion.

 

[highfigh]

Well I didn't exactly say you were wrong did I..? I think my point was that you're obviously entitled to your opinion and belief, but you just referenced a few policies that were the result of potentially good ideas that went bad. I mean that's just life right..? Not everything turns out how you might hope. So my concern was intended to consider, what you expect from the Federal Govt..?

This whole conversation reminds me of my Baby brother. He often says and seems to think the same way, and I honestly don't understand much of it, but as I ask him more and more for the reasons why, his argument seems to lose its legs.

I'm a bit older, maybe. I learned about things on the streets, learned about much of the world in the Service, and specifically the Govt in those same years, and following years since dealing with the VA. I have every right and experience to be wary of the Govt. They've been giving me the business most of my life.

My Brother however, had all the opportunity I didn't. And as a highly educated white man working at Merrill Lynch and raking in more in most years that I made in 2 or 3 years. But he's ajar going on about not trusting the Govt because of the $50 toilet seat. It's just a very limited viewpoint, and doesn't take into account any of the Govt policies that allowed him to get to where he is now. I guarantee you, growing up in the same family I did, that he didn't pay for 4 years at the University of Michigan and live in Ann Arbor on Dad's Cop Salary alone.

So maybe I was projecting a bit, but again, it comes back to what you expect vs what you believe and often the truth is harder to see...

The Govt is deeply flawed. But some things they get right also. The Affordable Care Act. And if things go right, the investment in and transformation to a Climate based economy and power grid are a few positives I think we can count in recent years and near future.

This 5 year vaccine in 6 months is something only a Federal Govt could probably pull off. Especially if you count the distribution.

I guess I'm just saying, that yes... Clearly things go wrong. But things go right. Sometimes

What did Reagan say? Trust but verify...

Right vs wrong WRT opinions is a common issue but really, if two people disagree about things, it's still only opinion and not fact, as I wrote to someone who never responded to that comment. We all reach conclusions from our own perspective, from what we read/see and live. I doubt we disagree on more than the semantics, really.

WRT the $50 toilet seats and $1000 hammers that were exposed by Sen William Proxmire, who had his 'Golden Fleece Awards' when he was in office, I think he was being very naive, although it was his way of trying to bring some accountability to the government. However, the US was still involved in SE Asia and as you know, "we weren't in Cambodia", right? There are areas where the government has overstepped badly, but unless we have special clearance, we don't know many details.

I think some of the ideas behind the ACA was right, but the way they implemented it was wrong. We have always needed a better health care payment system, but it should have come about long ago and less power to deny coverage/set prices should have been given to the insurers. As far as the cost of your brother's schooling at Michigan, they have scholarships and grants for students who apply and maintain their grades, or have some exceptional ability or intellect. I have a cousin who had a full ride scholarship at Michigan for Track in the early-mid '70s and he hated going there because the wealthy kids constantly threw that fact in the faces of the ones who came from more modest backgrounds- maybe you could ask him about that.

What do I expect from the Federal government?

Most of it is in the oath you and your dad swore as you entered service in the Police and Military, respectively. I don't expect them to find pet programs, to lie to us, to force us to do things that we don't agree with, to enter agreements with countries that hurt the country and, while some conflicts between Congress and other branches of our government will exist, I don't expect Congress to spend every waking moment neglecting their other duties as they chase a rabbit down a hole- this goes for both parties and they have both done it. We need laws but in order for them to be effective, they need to be enforced. Many are being set aside while some people run amok. That needs to stop.

Etc.

 

[highfigh]

I actually did mention this a bit earlier. Remember the Russian' s Bounty offer... Makes this even more concerning in my opinion.

Do you think it's possible that the US military put bounties on foreign troops? Remember the deck of cards with the photos of terrorists? You know those carried a bounty, right? Some bounties are never spoken of and don't necessarily come from the top brass.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Not to be the broken record on an A/V forum, ...

We do have a vinyl section here someplace.

 

[lp85253]

Right vs wrong WRT opinions is a common issue but really, if two people disagree about things, it's still only opinion and not fact, as I wrote to someone who never responded to that comment. We all reach conclusions from our own perspective, from what we read/see and live. I doubt we disagree on more than the semantics, really.

WRT the $50 toilet seats and $1000 hammers that were exposed by Sen William Proxmire, who had his 'Golden Fleece Awards' when he was in office, I think he was being very naive, although it was his way of trying to bring some accountability to the government. However, the US was still involved in SE Asia and as you know, "we weren't in Cambodia", right? There are areas where the government has overstepped badly, but unless we have special clearance, we don't know many details.

I think some of the ideas behind the ACA was right, but the way they implemented it was wrong. We have always needed a better health care payment system, but it should have come about long ago and less power to deny coverage/set prices should have been given to the insurers. As far as the cost of your brother's schooling at Michigan, they have scholarships and grants for students who apply and maintain their grades, or have some exceptional ability or intellect. I have a cousin who had a full ride scholarship at Michigan for Track in the early-mid '70s and he hated going there because the wealthy kids constantly threw that fact in the faces of the ones who came from more modest backgrounds- maybe you could ask him about that.

What do I expect from the Federal government?

Most of it is in the oath you and your dad swore as you entered service in the Police and Military, respectively. I don't expect them to find pet programs, to lie to us, to force us to do things that we don't agree with, to enter agreements with countries that hurt the country and, while some conflicts between Congress and other branches of our government will exist, I don't expect Congress to spend every waking moment neglecting their other duties as they chase a rabbit down a hole- this goes for both parties and they have both done it. We need laws but in order for them to be effective, they need to be enforced. Many are being set aside while some people run amok. That needs to stop.

Etc.

what's run amok is DJT.. the rest of it is *because of DJT*.. hard to miss that....

 

[Trell]

Right vs wrong WRT opinions is a common issue but really, if two people disagree about things, it's still only opinion and not fact, as I wrote to someone who never responded to that comment. We all reach conclusions from our own perspective, from what we read/see and live. I doubt we disagree on more than the semantics, really.

Not all opinions are of the same weight, like when some "centrists" try to cast all opinions as equivalent like "Opinions on the shape of the Earth differs".

WRT the $50 toilet seats and $1000 hammers that were exposed by Sen William Proxmire, who had his 'Golden Fleece Awards' when he was in office, I think he was being very naive, although it was his way of trying to bring some accountability to the government. However, the US was still involved in SE Asia and as you know, "we weren't in Cambodia", right? There are areas where the government has overstepped badly, but unless we have special clearance, we don't know many details.

:snicker: A Senator dude complains about a $50 toilet seat? This is what I paid for a very good quality toilet seat a few years back. I don't how long ago the dude made that comment, though.

I think some of the ideas behind the ACA was right, but the way they implemented it was wrong. We have always needed a better health care payment system, but it should have come about long ago and less power to deny coverage/set prices should have been given to the insurers.

The ACA is based upon the old Heritage Foundation market based alternative to public universal healthcare, and not incidentally, what Romney care used as well as a template.

The big mistake was not to introduce a public option as well allow Medicare/Medicaid to negotiate drug prices. There certainly are issues with the implementation of a program this huge, but G.O.P. has been totally obstructionist about it. In every f*cking way.

As far as the cost of your brother's schooling at Michigan, they have scholarships and grants for students who apply and maintain their grades, or have some exceptional ability or intellect. I have a cousin who had a full ride scholarship at Michigan for Track in the early-mid '70s and he hated going there because the wealthy kids constantly threw that fact in the faces of the ones who came from more modest backgrounds- maybe you could ask him about that.

Much has changed since the 70'ies. Cost, especially.

 

[lp85253]

Not all opinions are of the same weight, like when some "centrists" try to cast all opinions as equivalent like "Opinions on the shape of the Earth differs".



:snicker: A Senator dude complains about a $50 toilet seat? This is what I paid for a very good quality toilet seat a few years back. I don't how long ago the dude made that comment, though.



The ACA is based upon the old Heritage Foundation market based alternative to public universal healthcare, and not incidentally, what Romney care used as well as a template.

The big mistake was not to introduce a public option as well allow Medicare/Medicaid to negotiate drug prices. There certainly are issues with the implementation of a program this huge, but G.O.P. has been totally obstructionist about it. In every f*cking way.



Much has changed since the 70'ies. Cost, especially.

the $50 toilet seat was 70's era...it's an antiquated thought that has driven the "anti govt" thought that "private industry" can do things better and cheaper than govt.. it's a misguided notion ,,,,,,