Considering a new AVR

[IansDad88(Don)]

It's good to hear your observations & experience. The 3600 is beginning to look like a good solution for me as well.

LOL about that Denon terminology . Denon's owner's manuals were probably written by Japanese engineers who knew little or no English. The Japanese I've worked with all were good scientists, but spoke & wrote English in a strange way. I don't know Japanese grammar, but they began a sentence with the middle of an idea, and then went out in both directions. I had to think/listen very hard just to understand them. Once written these manuals were shipped to someplace like Singapore for translation to English by guys who knew nothing about AVRs. In contrast, the Yamaha manuals I've seen were written in good English.
I'm pretty certain that my center and rear speakers can be driven by 105 watts. I had a much older Denon AVR that produced 70 wpc, and it drove those speakers fine.

Hard to go wrong with this AVR in my opinion. And getting Audyseey is a huge bonus. 70 wpc will be just fine.

Tottaly agree.

 

[Trebdp83]

First off, I liked the Yamaha. Never had one. The new look grew on me and I guess I'm just too into "Star Wars" and wanted an Imperial droid to look at. Never heard a bad thing about Yamahas. I wasn't trying to do 4K @120 so that wasn't the issue. It had bugs. The GUI was dated and very slow. The feature set was crippled until future firmware updates. I would have waited for them if it had worked smoothly but it just was so buggy. They actually released a firmware update specifically for bugs but it did no good. So, it went back. I actually loved the way it sounded and it passed a really good picture over to my TV.

 

[Trebdp83]

And remember, Yamaha's MSRP for the TSR-700 is $599.95. It is the twin to the RX-V6A.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

First off, I liked the Yamaha. Never had one. The new look grew on me and I guess I'm just too into "Star Wars" and wanted an Imperial droid to look at. Never heard a bad thing about Yamahas. I wasn't trying to do 4K @120 so that wasn't the issue. It had bugs. The GUI was dated and very slow. The feature set was crippled until future firmware updates. I would have waited for them if it had worked smoothly but it just was so buggy. They actually released a firmware update specifically for bugs but it did no good. So, it went back. I actually loved the way it sounded and it passed a really good picture over to my TV.

That is unfortunate about the GUI bugs. And unfortunately, it also reinforces the perception that we should be very cautious with ANY first year models due to bugs.

 

[Cos]

What was your experience with the cheap $400 Yamaha AVR from Costco? HDMI compatibility with certain brands of components?

Or did your Yamaha AVR break and Yamaha service couldn't fix the Yamaha and wouldn't send you a replacement after they couldn't fix your AVR?

I have the Yamaha Costco Special (Previous model and closer to $500) TSR-7850 and I was really surprised on the solid build quality, that being said, I have had some minor HDMI issues, (switching cables actually helped) and using ARC w/it hasn't worked incredibly well. Marantz had that on lockdown. I know not a lot of people are fans of ARC, but I have been using it forever with my Sony TVs.

 

[little wing]

View attachment 41764

E-A-G-L-E-S. Eagles!!!

Yes sir, I saw what happened Sunday.... LOL. We stink

 

[Trebdp83]

That is unfortunate about the GUI bugs. And unfortunately, it also reinforces the perception that we should be very cautious with ANY first year models due to bugs.

Yes, we have heard it and said it about many kinds of products. Still, these guys have been doing this stuff for awhile and it is really just more of the same save a few features. That chip issue doesn't help. It's not an easy gig these days. Higher priced models are a hard sell to the masses when they are competing with bluetooth speakers and sound bars. I'm not sure Denon and Yamaha need to make big box store versions anymore and it kinda' cheapens the brands a bit and confuses customers who do not know one way or the other. There is lots of talk about the Denon X3600H around here and it really is considered the starting point for Denons by many. Yamahas Aventage models are the starting point for others. Looking at the specs of the TSR-700/RX-V6A against the new RX-A2A makes one scratch their head. Ok, the RX-A2A has a nicer remote control but with the same specs on the page, some would ask if the $800 price tag is worth it if they can get a "lesser" model at Costco for $400. Spending more for better specs doesn't always get you a better user experience either. I still think a made to order AVR would be great. Everybody around here knows exactly what they want in an AVR and then have to decide on the model that gets them as close to that goal as possible within their given budget. You can order your car and Smart phone just the way you like it, but not your AVR. The lack of any one standard for HDMI features across all manufacturers is ridiculous to this day. Now, I need to go apologize to somebody in another thread.

 

[stalag2005]

I know there are strong feelings on the subject, but I also have been considering an upgrade and want to ask this here as it is on topic. I am considering the Anthem MRX-740 (new on market) as an upgrade to my Yamaha RX-V663 that I currently own. I understand that this is a much more expensive replacement than the Yamaha 3080/Denon/Marantz AVR's here. Does anyone have experience with the predecessor the MRX-720 and comments how Anthem supported it's product? I find it interesting that the MRX-740 won't ship with the damaged chipset used by Panasonic for HDMI 2.1/HDCP 2.3 but will be updated separately when the fixes are made by a separate board. This is well spoken in another thread but if someone can speak to this.....???? with some experience in the products mentioned? I know that the MRX-720 is in design 5 years old and don't know if there are any reviews of the new product, the MRX-740.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, let me contrast this service with JVC and Yamaha.

1. JVC. I've sold plenty of JVC PJ. But one unfortunate client bought a new RS540. About 8-9 months later, still under warranty, the PJ malfunctioned. He contacted JVC service, and JVC sent him a new RS540. The bad luck didn't stop there. About 3 months after the New Replacement, his new RS540 had issues with the Zoom function - it would not Zoom in all the way to fit his screen. So both the Client and I called JVC service. The rep spoke to both of us separately. Then sent in the paperwork. And then sent my client a SECOND NEW Replacement RS540! That's what I call service.

2. Yamaha. Over a year ago, a client bought a Yamaha RX-A3080. He had some issues with this WiFi streaming and the RX-A3080. I would blame this on the home WiFi network, but Yamaha service worked with him and was willing to send him a new RX-A3080. That's what I call service.

Panurgy is the worst I have seen. Not only did they screw up with the repairs, they blamed it on FedEX and UPS for the AVR/AVP being broken!

Yes, Panurgy is the scariest aspect of buying anything from Denon/Marantz. I do because I'm used to the Marantz way of doing things. I only buy Marantz gear from a B & M store I have done business with for nearly 50 years now. I would never buy a Denon Marantz product on line. Even when I bought an AVR for the people that I sold our lake home to, I used that B & M store.

Buying this modern gear is not like buying the "built like a tank" gear of old. That is why all my gear except the pre/pro and disc players is either pro gear, really good vintage gear or designed and built by me. You can not look at this new computerized complex gear that has chips with everything the same was as the gear of yesteryear.

 

[stalag2005]

That looks to be an unboxing. I did not see a test of the equipment. Yes I have seen this video. But what is your experience with this AVR?

 

[Ponzio]

If you're willing to be patient ... ... I think a pre-owned Yamaha RX-A 2060/3060 or 2070/3070 would meet all you're current needs (power/features/rock-solid reliability) and relatively affordable.

Now is not the time to cheap out on a refurbished model, no matter what brand.

Web sites like Audiogon, AVS Classifieds, which I've used to buy AVR's, subs and speakers in the past, as you know, are pretty dependable if you go the pre-owned route. Also US Audio Mart, tied in to Canadian sellers too, and Hifi Shark, are good sources of current prices.

While we can argue on the merits of Audyssey vs. YPAO for room correction EQ'ing, I think Yamaha's web access control gives you more leeway in tweaking/dialing in your speakers/sub(s) to your tonal preferences.

Your Veracity's will thank you.

 

[KEW]

I am generally a fan of refurbs from Accessories4Less as I have bought several units from them and not had a single issue. At this point, if I bought one hat arrived DOA and had to eat the entire cost with no recourse, I would still be ahead of the game!
However, I would add a couple of thoughts after reading other people's woes:
1) The real benefit of refurbs is the cost savings. If you were buying in February, then, traditionally, you would be looking at MSRP pricing (or close) on a new unit vs a deep discount on the refurb unit! Right now, (if still in stock) last years models are being nicely discounted and the refurb may only save $100-200. That may still be worth it (again, I have a perfect record of refurbs without any issues from A4L), but, certainly, it is not as compelling as saving $400-500. I always check Amazon and Crutchfield for open box returns (with 3 year warranty, which is also offered on several refurb units from A4L). I have seen a new open box unit from Amazon at only $50 more than the refurb and went with the open box (which also had the option for a 30 day return with return shipping paid via Amazon Prime).
2) Panurgy is apparently a sad place to send your gear for repair. I am pretty sure that you have alternatives within driving distance which you would want to use rather than paying to ship to Panurgy, but check the Denon website for local manufacturer authorized warranty service centers. I had the HDMI board on a Marantz NR-1605 go bad after 10-12 months. I drove into the belly of the beast that is Atlanta and one week later drove back to pick up a replacement unit that Marantz sent to the repair center! I considered that good service!
VPMS has a very concerning experience and I wonder if Covid-19 is influencing parts availability and they have some stupid internal performance metric that if a unit stay in their facility for over a certain time the repair guys get demerits (I have seem this type of BS happen too often). Any way you look at it they seem to be a crappy place and it is a shame that Denon/Marantz use them as their mail-in repair location.
Not that it would reduce ADTG's justified frustration, but I do believe that his unfortunate experience with his Denon pre-pro is highly influenced by the fact that he bought a top of the line unit from Denon that Denon decided to discontinue production without any updated model to replace it. My speculation on that was it was essentially an "experimental model" (no other manufacturers have attempted to replicate the capabilities of that unit) that turned out to be inherently problematic after several years. His unit lasted 8 years, but Denon did not decide to maintain stock of parts inventory to repair units that far into their service life. ADTG certainly has a legit beef, but I am a little slower than he is to consider his experience representative of what to expect with a typical AVR.

I am generally a fan of Yamaha as a company and for me the reason I choose Denon is the capability of Audyssey with the App that allows you to set it to only work below say 300Hz - in other words, only target room effects. Also, it seems that you do pay a premium for Yamaha's better units and the discounts are not so commonly available as for Denon.

That's my 2 cents on this.
If you feel that your room has no significant issues,

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I am generally a fan of refurbs from Accessories4Less as I have bought several units from them and not had a single issue. At this point, if I bought one hat arrived DOA and had to eat the entire cost with no recourse, I would still be ahead of the game!

Buying a refurb from Accessories4Less is like going to a Trump rally today with no mask. Way more risk than I need. The other topic that does not get much attention is the impact of shipping on modern receivers. If you look at the design of the Denon receiver box it's not that sturdy. The main protection is the foam inserts on each end that hold the receiver in place.

Every time the unit is shipped it has the potential to reduce the life of the receiver or damage it. The foam inserts degrade with use and any impact to the box can easily damage the receiver. You can receive a box that seems intact but the tape on the end has separated. That might not look like much but it tells a tale that the unit has not been handled well.

Now think about how many times the receiver was shipped as a refurb. Once to the original purchase, back to the company for return, back to Denon and then to Accessories4Less, next to you. That's a huge amount of opportunities to cause impact damage. It's just not worth it. We know Denon puts a new look on refurbs but they don't catch the internal damage and PanurgyOEM is horrible for repairs.

Personally, I don't think Denon is dumb. If they wanted to keep my business they would fix these issues with a few simple policies: 1. Offer free return shipping on all warranty repairs. 2. Automatically replace product when replacement parts are not available within 30 days. 3. Either cleanup the act at PanurgyOEM or fire them. 4. Re-open the opportunity for local electronic service center providers to become Denon certified once again.

 

[Swerd]

You can go here:

RX-A3080 - Overview - Yamaha USA

Born from Engineering Performance. Our flagship 9.2-channel (11.2-ch processing) AV receiver was bred for versatility and engineering performance with two ESS SABRE™ DACs (one ES9007S and one ES9026PRO), seven HDMI inputs, three HDMI outputs, Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™, Multi-Zone functionality...

usa.yamaha.com

That's the best darn AVR in the world right there.

I appreciate all your recommendations. Thanks.

But the RX-A3030 is more than I need or want. I have an external 2-channel 200 wpc amp to drive my front left & right speakers, and my center and rear speakers don't need so much power. Something in the 100 to 125 wpc range will be sufficient.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I appreciate all your recommendations. Thanks.

But the RX-A3030 is more than I need or want. I have an external 2-channel 200 wpc amp to drive my front left & right speakers, and my center and rear speakers don't need so much power. Something in the 100 to 125 wpc range will be sufficient.

You can compare all of the Yamaha models here:

AV Receivers, Home Theater Receivers - Yamaha USA

usa.yamaha.com

Maybe the RX-A1080 is more what you are looking for?

Also, Costco still has the TSR-700 available for $400 if you think its worth a try:

https://www.costco.com/yamaha-tsr-700-7.1-channel-network-av-receiver.product.100686465.html

 

[Alex2507]

Maybe the RX-A1080 is more what you are looking for?

He needs the 2080. It's not our money we're spending, live a little.

 

[lovinthehd]

Buying a refurb from Accessories4Less is like going to a Trump rally today with no mask. Way more risk than I need. The other topic that does not get much attention is the impact of shipping on modern receivers. If you look at the design of the Denon receiver box it's not that sturdy. The main protection is the foam inserts on each end that hold the receiver in place.

Every time the unit is shipped it has the potential to reduce the life of the receiver or damage it. The foam inserts degrade with use and any impact to the box can easily damage the receiver. You can receive a box that seems intact but the tape on the end has separated. That might not look like much but it tells a tale that the unit has not been handled well.

Now think about how many times the receiver was shipped as a refurb. Once to the original purchase, back to the company for return, back to Denon and then to Accessories4Less, next to you. That's a huge amount of opportunities to cause impact damage. It's just not worth it. We know Denon puts a new look on refurbs but they don't catch the internal damage and PanurgyOEM is horrible for repairs.

Personally, I don't think Denon is dumb. If they wanted to keep my business they would fix these issues with a few simple policies: 1. Offer free return shipping on all warranty repairs. 2. Automatically replace product when replacement parts are not available within 30 days. 3. Either cleanup the act at PanurgyOEM or fire them. 4. Re-open the opportunity for local electronic service center providers to become Denon certified once again.

FWIW they don't use the same box for new units as refurbs....

 

[lovinthehd]

He needs the 2080. It's not our money we're spending, live a little.

Then just make it the 3080 in that case...

 

[PENG]

As expected, every brand has its followers.

However, If I look at available specs and bench test measurements, that are naturally more objective than subjective, it would appear that the following could be considered before making a decision:

1) Obviously price, and perceived reliability would rank high but it would be a tough one, due to lack of up to date stats, M Code responded to my request a while ago to try and find more up to date info but have not heard back yet, still..); and price could be all over the map depending on the moment in time, and where the buyer's location (city, country..)

2) Specs - Denon, Marantz, Yamaha are quite even on this, but D+M has an edge if one wants 11+ channel processing.

3) REQ - Not 100% sure, but it is more likely Audyssey XT32 + Editor App is going to be much better, based on my own observations only.

4) Bench test measurements - Denon is currently top, based on the most recent measurements by ASR and AH.
Anthem, Arcam, and other boutique brand like AVRs and even AVP/Cs didn't even come closed regardless of price.

5) Power output - I am of the opinion that this is a moot point if one considers the difference need to be 2 too 3 dB for it to be a significant factor. The difference in output into 8 and 4 ohms between a top model Denon or Yamaha and their mid range models will not be more than 1 dB in most, if not all cases.

To those thinking about Anthem, or Arcam's, I think they are good and capable companies, but in my opinion (based on specs, measurements again..), while they are very capable in making amplifiers, AVRs/AVPs/AVCs might be just too complicated for them, and more belong to mass producers such as D+M, O+I, Y, S that I believe are much more experience and resource to deal with the complexity involved.