Considering a new AVR

[Alex2507]

his suave / debonair way...

Double Oh Audio ... licensed to thrill.

 

[Swerd]

The recommendations for a new AVR as opposed to a factory refurb are piling up. Thanks TLS Guy, Peng, VMPS-TIII, Alex2507 (when did you ever buy anything new?), STRONGBADF1 (thanks for the swave & deboner rating ), mazersteven (despite your offensive NY Giants avatar), ADTG, ryanosaur, and all others.

My list has grown shorter, AVR-X3600H or AVR-X4500H. Probably new, but I haven't yet ruled out refurbished. If A4L sells refurbished AVRs with a 1-year Denon warranty, can it really be junk? My previous experience with used audio gear has been good: 2 B&K products, an amp & an AVR, both made in the USA – I guess I may have been lucky. My first AVR was a Japanese-made Denon, bought in January 2000, so it was likely a 1999 model. I gather that today's Asian-made AVRs, low manufacturing cost is the main focus – with more & more built-in obsolescence. The Denon of 2020 is definitely not the Denon of 20 years ago.

It's only money right? This year has been wild & busy for me. I had surgery (radical prostatectomy) and have started Humira (an injected monoclonal antibody) to treat an auto-immune disease. My health insurance is expensive, but so far, with the surgery and many doctor's visits this year, I came out ahead. The Humira was shockingly expensive. My first order (2 doses, a 4 week supply) cost me over $1400! My 2nd order cost half that. And my next 2 orders cost under $300 each. Who knows what costs will be next year? I have a PhD in Biochemistry and I still don't understand how Medicare drug costs are determined.

Anyway, I can't listen to any music without a functioning AVR. So, I'll celebrate my good post-surgery recovery and the fact that I'm not allergic to Humira, and get me an AVR.

 

[mazersteven]

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My Denon came back from warranty service in worse shape than when I sent it in 2 months ago. It was a disaster. I had to send it back in again.

So far, Denon warranty service is the worst I have ever seen. From now on, I'll just throw away a broken Denon as warranty service is horrible. I certainly would not count on it.

Yeah, let me contrast this service with JVC and Yamaha.

1. JVC. I've sold plenty of JVC PJ. But one unfortunate client bought a new RS540. About 8-9 months later, still under warranty, the PJ malfunctioned. He contacted JVC service, and JVC sent him a new RS540. The bad luck didn't stop there. About 3 months after the New Replacement, his new RS540 had issues with the Zoom function - it would not Zoom in all the way to fit his screen. So both the Client and I called JVC service. The rep spoke to both of us separately. Then sent in the paperwork. And then sent my client a SECOND NEW Replacement RS540! That's what I call service.

2. Yamaha. Over a year ago, a client bought a Yamaha RX-A3080. He had some issues with this WiFi streaming and the RX-A3080. I would blame this on the home WiFi network, but Yamaha service worked with him and was willing to send him a new RX-A3080. That's what I call service.

Panurgy is the worst I have seen. Not only did they screw up with the repairs, they blamed it on FedEX and UPS for the AVR/AVP being broken!

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Yeah, let me contrast this service with JVC and Yamaha.

1. JVC. I've sold plenty of JVC PJ. But one unfortunate client bought a new RS540. About 8-9 months later, still under warranty, the PJ malfunctioned. He contacted JVC service, and JVC sent him a new RS540. That's what I call service.

2. Yamaha. Over a year ago, a client bought a Yamaha RX-A3080. He had some issues with this WiFi streaming and the RX-A3080. I would blame this on the home WiFi network, but Yamaha service worked with him and was willing to send him a new RX-A3080. That's what I call service.

Panurgy is the worst I have seen. Not only did they screw up with the repairs, they blamed it on FedEX and UPS for the AVR/AVP being broken!

Based on your story my next AVR will be a Yamaha.

Denon doesn't take care of it's customers at all. I asked for a replacement when the unit came back with scratches that were not there originally and hardware rattling around inside the AVR. All PanurgyOEM was able to get out of Denon was a return mailing label after knowing I already waited 2 months for this repair. Denon lost me as a customer that day.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

View attachment 41764

They might win the division this year and go to the Playoffs with a losing record.

 

[Cos]

My Denon came back from warranty service in worse shape than when I sent it in 2 months ago. It was a disaster. I had to send it back in again.

So far, Denon warranty service is the worst I have ever seen. From now on, I'll just throw away a broken Denon as warranty service is horrible. I certainly would not count on it.

Since Denon & Marantz are the same company, I had a Marantz Blu-ray player, that spent more time at the shop than my HT room. Needless to say, i gave up after 3 tries and went to Sony/Oppo. I have had good luck with their Pre/Pros no issues with the 7005 or the 8802A which I have now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Based on your story my next AVR will be a Yamaha.

Denon doesn't take care of it's customers at all. I asked for a replacement when the unit came back with scratches that were not there originally and hardware rattling around inside the AVR. All PanurgyOEM was able to get out of Denon was a return mailing label after knowing I already waited 2 months for this repair. Denon lost me as a customer that day.

I wonder why certain companies (I've worked with either as a dealer or as a consumer/client) don't treat their clients very well, and some companies (JVC, RBH, Yamaha, Definitive Technology) treat their clients very well.

Is it because some companies don't have to deal with so many defects and malfunctions?

If you only have to deal with a small number of defects, you are more likely to treat all the clients well?

And if you have to deal with so many numbers of defects, you are less likely to treat all the clients well?

 

[mazersteven]

Is it because some companies don't have to deal with so many defects and malfunctions?

If you only have to deal with a small number of defects, you are more likely to treat all the clients well?

And if you have to deal with so many numbers of defects, you are less likely to treat all the clients well?

Do you or anyone else have Numbers/Facts on % of failure vs. total production on all manufacturers?

 

[Trebdp83]

Do you or anyone else have Numbers/Facts on % of failure vs. total production on all manufacturers?

Nobody ever seems to, they just go on about the company that supposedly screwed them. Let me tell you a little somethin' about Yamaha...

 

[Swerd]

Can anyone suggest 1 or 2 Yamaha AVRs to consider? Something that competes with Denon AVR-X3600H or X4500H.

 

[Trebdp83]

You will find it near impossible to find a 2019 Yamaha and the comparable 2020 models aren't out yet.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can anyone suggest 1 or 2 Yamaha AVRs to consider? Something that competes with Denon AVR-X3600H or X4500H.

Brand new RX-A1080 and RX-A2080 would be extremely difficult to find. You would probably have more luck finding pre-owned models of 1080/1070/1060/1050 or 2080/2070/2060/2050.

M Code said Yamaha is supposed to be making one more big batch of the RX-A3080 next month (Dec).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you or anyone else have Numbers/Facts on % of failure vs. total production on all manufacturers?

I don't.

M Code mentioned something a few years ago about the % or numbers of Denon's being sent into repairs. But at that time, I was a Denon fanboy like the rest of you. So I didn't pay attention.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nobody ever seems to, they just go on about the company that supposedly screwed them. Let me tell you a little somethin' about Yamaha...

What was your experience with the cheap $400 Yamaha AVR from Costco? HDMI compatibility with certain brands of components?

Or did your Yamaha AVR break and Yamaha service couldn't fix the Yamaha and wouldn't send you a replacement after they couldn't fix your AVR?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Can anyone suggest 1 or 2 Yamaha AVRs to consider? Something that competes with Denon AVR-X3600H or X4500H.

You can go here:

RX-A3080 - Overview - Yamaha USA

Born from Engineering Performance. Our flagship 9.2-channel (11.2-ch processing) AV receiver was bred for versatility and engineering performance with two ESS SABRE™ DACs (one ES9007S and one ES9026PRO), seven HDMI inputs, three HDMI outputs, Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™, Multi-Zone functionality...

usa.yamaha.com

Click the notify me link and Yamaha will email you as soon as the Yamaha RX-A3080 is back in stock.
They will send you a confirmation email within 2 minutes. Or at least they did for me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can go here:

RX-A3080 - Overview - Yamaha USA

Born from Engineering Performance. Our flagship 9.2-channel (11.2-ch processing) AV receiver was bred for versatility and engineering performance with two ESS SABRE™ DACs (one ES9007S and one ES9026PRO), seven HDMI inputs, three HDMI outputs, Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™, Multi-Zone functionality...

usa.yamaha.com

Click the notify me link and Yamaha will email you as soon as the Yamaha RX-A3080 is back in stock.
They will send you a confirmation email within 2 minutes. Or at least they did for me.

That's the best darn AVR in the world right there.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

That's the best darn AVR in the world right there.

When you consider the Denon 4700 is $1699 and the Yamaha is only $300 more while providing a warranty that's actually worth something and all these extra features it's enticing:
• 165W vs 125W per channel
DTS:X
Supports more formats: MP3 / WMA / MPEG-4 AAC: up to 48 kHz / 16-bit, ALAC: up to 96 kHz / 24-bit, FLAC: up to 384 kHz / 24-bit, WAV / AIFF: up to 384 kHz / 32-bit, DSD: up to 11.2 MHz
DAC upgrade: ESS 384 kHz / 32-bit SABRE PRO Premier DAC™ ES9026PRO (for main 7 channels) and SABRE ES9007S DAC
XLR Terminals for fronts
Adequate internal cooling

AND a warranty program that's interested in keeping it's customers happy?

 

[Trebdp83]

What was your experience with the cheap $400 Yamaha AVR from Costco? HDMI compatibility with certain brands of components?

Or did your Yamaha AVR break and Yamaha service couldn't fix the Yamaha and wouldn't send you a replacement after they couldn't fix your AVR?

It was a half baked piece of s#%t and Yamaha support blamed every other maker and device for their failure. I'm glad Costco has a great return policy. It's called SUPPORT for a reason Yamaha! It doesn't matter if a guy spent $400 or $4,000. Listen to what your customers have to say and respond with respect and don't act like your s#% doesn't stink. Shame on Yamaha, Denon or any outfit that f#%ks people around. Stand by your products and support your customers when they have an issue or get out of the f#%kin' business. Sorry you had problems with your Denon and they didn't make good on it. Let's be real guys, faulty units don't make it back to Asia for fixing. They get some guy in a shack out in the west to poke at it a bit before giving it back to the customer. Apparently spending more doesn't get anybody any better service or reliability as a rule. Anybody who ever bought a Jaguar knows this all too well.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I was wondering how Yamaha could sell a quality AVR for $400?

Out of curiosity what didn't work for you with the Yamaha? Was it video?