For the love of god or whoever … VOTE!

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highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Well they are generally honkies :) Even tho am largely in drumph territory haven't seen any parading or the truck flag thing (but that's normal for the most part......the one pickup that used to fly rebel flags seems to have wrecked his truck a while ago).
Maybe they are generally honkies, but the head of the Republican Party in Milwaukee is Black. Yeah- in the place where segregation is so bad that it's called 'the most segregated city in America'.

I went to boat service training in the late-'90s and one guy in the class was from Traverse City, MI- he had a big white pickup with two, crossed, American flags on the doors and he told of the time he went to Tennessee to visit his sister. One night, they went to a bar and as he waited for the bartender to get their drinks, someone walked up and said "I don't much like what you got on your truck, but we'll let you slide because you're with her".
 
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lp85253

Audioholic Chief
Look around- there's no pork to be had by most people.
that seems to be the case more and more these days.. it's hard to believe "big money"(dig that 'Rush' reference) is getting *more* powerful in congress than it already is .. but all that overspending is going somewhere.. and i agree it's not "trickling down" these days (or ever tbt)...
 
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IansDad88(Don)

Audioholic
While I've tried ptetty hard at some points reading along, not to jump into this pond post election with any of my own opinions. Some folks are making what seem like valid points, others, sadly, appear to be less well informed, but just as certain. Which is understandable, but somewhat disconcerting. And unfortunately, kind of a shame. This is just an observation, not pointing at anyone.

But what I am going to say is this. Very, VERY little of anything happening now, hasn't happened before. And I've never in my life heard anything more true than the old adage: Those who ignore history, are doomed to repeat it. I am and have always been a history buff. Both American History, and Western Civ.

I can tell you with great confidence, all this has happened before in various forms. What we're seeing now, here in the US, and around the world.

Economic anxiety, rural vs urban, less educated, vs so called "elites.". Big business influences, and Government miss management (though if I'm honest I don't think ever here, in the US, quite so poorly as now. This is not choosing a side, just my honest opinion of Covid, and Govern by tweet specifically. And immigration. Particularly immigration (Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese Interment... Just to name a few recent - without looking at it again I might go as far as to say the only time immigrants were ever truly welcomed and not an issue of contention, were the years of the Civil War as people were signed up to the Army and shipped south immediately after disembarking thier ships)

My point is, and maybe I'll stop here. Is to say this. Look to history. Don't think you have all the answers, because you're probably going to be surprised. And find a correlating world event, or even just here in the States. Because if you want to know what happens next, it almost certainly has before, in one way or another.

Observations and opinions are great. Conversation and thought experiments and absolutely necessary. But history bears the scars of almost every aspect of all these things. Both positive and negative. We should try to endorse and repeat the former, and quash the latter.

Hell even something brand new like climate change has a historical correlation. We were warned about the Ozone layer. I remember, I was there. We promptly changed a few minor issues (aerosol propellants, and freon) but never properly fixed anything. And the hole is still up there. And in fact it was just in the news again the other day.

Look to History my friends. Let it save us from ourselves. And always remember. No matter what you think of what happens, we're all in this together. And if you look up a Dude named Scientific Adam, you'll see that we are.

Healthy debate is good. Compromise and positive forward progress has, I think, always been better that not.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Maybe they are generally honkies, but the head of the Republican Party in Milwaukee is Black. Yeah- in the place where segregation is so bad that it's called 'the most segregated city in America'.
...
Yup! And since was Obama was Black it is proof that Blacks have the same rights and responsibilities, as well as treated the same, is the white people :rolleyes:
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
...I can tell you with great confidence, all this has happened before in various forms. What we're seeing now, here in the US, and around the world...
In Poland a center-right party over the years transformed to a far right populist authoritarian party doing everything they can to hold on to power, and G.O.P. is going down the same path.
 
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lp85253

Audioholic Chief
Yup! And since was Obama was Black it is proof that Blacks have the same rights and responsibilities, as well as treated the same, is the white people :rolleyes:
that's always been the right wing response to racism, whether it's the 1940's "dixiecrats" or the 2020 trumpies : "well that guy got to" play baseball with white folks in the case of Jackie Robinson, or be president , in the case of Obama "so that's 'proof' there is no racism in America"..
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yup! And since was Obama was Black it is proof that Blacks have the same rights and responsibilities, as well as treated the same, is the white people :rolleyes:
My point is that the head of the party in MKE being Black would be seen as 'unlikely', not that he doesn't have the right or deserve being treated well. This is a racially charged city with a lot of problems, with a large minority population- Blacks haven't voted for Republicans in large numbers since about 1964.
 
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lp85253

Audioholic Chief
My point is that the head of the party in MKE being Black would be seen as 'unlikely', not that he doesn't have the right or deserve being treated well. This is a racially charged city with a lot of problems, with a large minority population- Blacks haven't voted for Republicans in large numbers since about 1964.
maybe because LBJ did something to change the trajectory of the parties???
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
My point is that the head of the party in MKE being Black would be seen as 'unlikely', not that he doesn't have the right or deserve being treated well. This is a racially charged city with a lot of problems, with a large minority population- Blacks haven't voted for Republicans in large numbers since about 1964.
But you used a Black G.O.P. leader to insinuate that the segregation did not exist or was severely overstated. I don't think you can claim that.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Observations and opinions are great. Conversation and thought experiments and absolutely necessary. But history bears the scars of almost every aspect of all these things. Both positive and negative. We should try to endorse and repeat the former, and quash the latter.

Hell even something brand new like climate change has a historical correlation. We were warned about the Ozone layer. I remember, I was there. We promptly changed a few minor issues (aerosol propellants, and freon) but never properly fixed anything. And the hole is still up there. And in fact it was just in the news again the other day.
From the link, "The variability of the size of the ozone hole is largely determined by the strength of a strong wind band that flows around the Antarctic area," ESA said. Look at the data- last year, the hole was much smaller than this year, which has seen far less human activity that before, especially in manufacturing, transportation and emission of pollution. One of the first comments I remember after the CFC ban was "Well, maybe it's cyclical". EVERYTHING is cyclical WRT the Earth's environment, although the levels can trend upward or downward, depending on changes in our activity.

 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
maybe because LBJ did something to change the trajectory of the parties???
Yeah, but if you have seen his historic voting habits and attitudes, it wasn't because he suddenly became a good person. Look for his quotes about what would happen if they passed the Equal Rights Amendment- Snopes determined that there's no proof he made some of the comments, but it wouldn't be out of character if he had.


I would have thought this country would have progressed more since the mid-'60s. Just one of the many reasons I'm disappointed.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
But you used a Black G.O.P. leader to insinuate that the segregation did not exist or was severely overstated. I don't think you can claim that.
Your memory must be very short and I never insinuated anything like that- I have commented on the problems in Milwaukee so many times it would have been hard to miss the ones about segregation.

If you want to think it's over-stated, go ahead but if you look into it or if you were to come here to see it for yourself, you would lose your death grip on the idea that I'm blind to it. I don't avoid many areas of Milwaukee, even with the problems, because it's not that all of the people are bad; the way the local government runs things is the problem and that leaves many people without good options.

Better yet, come here and look for yourself- I think you would be extremely surprised that the condition of a city would be allowed to deteriorate to the current level, especially after hearing the Mayor talk about the good things that are happening. I really don't care which party runs the place, I want better results. Nothing else really matters.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
that's always been the right wing response to racism, whether it's the 1940's "dixiecrats" or the 2020 trumpies : "well that guy got to" play baseball with white folks in the case of Jackie Robinson, or be president , in the case of Obama "so that's 'proof' there is no racism in America"..
Hanging on to belief in the generalizations is one reason this problem hasn't been fixed. Not all of those in many groups are as bad as people say, nor are they as good although some groups should be fired into space (KKK and others like them). The Dodgers wanted to make a statement and if you look at Robinson's first season, you'll see that he was voted Rookie of the year, which wouldn't have happened if everyone was truly racist.- attendance didn't slump, interest in the game didn't die and it's still here. OTOH, the sentiments still existed in 1974, when Hank Aaron received death threats as he chased Babe Ruth's home run record. That's disgusting.
 
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IansDad88(Don)

Audioholic
From the link, "The variability of the size of the ozone hole is largely determined by the strength of a strong wind band that flows around the Antarctic area," ESA said. Look at the data- last year, the hole was much smaller than this year, which has seen far less human activity that before, especially in manufacturing, transportation and emission of pollution. One of the first comments I remember after the CFC ban was "Well, maybe it's cyclical". EVERYTHING is cyclical WRT the Earth's environment, although the levels can trend upward or downward, depending on changes in our activity.

Also, the fact that when it was discovered, precious time was wasted ignoring and attempting to defeat the science. Years wasted, then a minimal effort, and now how many years later it's still an issue, when in fact it could have been far more effectively dealt with.

So can we draw a parallel, and then a hypothesis as to how well ignoring Global Warming / Climate change will turn out..? Wasn't it like 1988 or so that science first put this on the table. Officially I mean. With a scientific paper outlining a future of continued travel on the current path. And also being ignored and lobbied off the Front Pages and into conspiratorial populism.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see it, and I'm confident we have to do better this time.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Also, the fact that when it was discovered, precious time was wasted ignoring and attempting to defeat the science. Years wasted, then a minimal effort, and now how many years later it's still an issue, when in fact it could have been far more effectively dealt with.

So can we draw a parallel, and then a hypothesis as to how well ignoring Global Warming / Climate change will turn out..? Wasn't it like 1988 or so that science first put this on the table. Officially I mean. With a scientific paper outlining a future of continued travel on the current path. And also being ignored and lobbied off the Front Pages and into conspiratorial populism.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see it, and I'm confident we have to do better this time.
I thought it was in the late-'70s or early-'80s that they were saying we're headed toward another Ice Age. My, how things have changed.

A bridge over the entrance to the Milwaukee harbor was built in the '70s and between the time of design and completion, the water level rose so much that most freight ships couldn't pass under, so they had to dredge the entrance. More recently, the water level has changed drastically between low and high. In the late-'80s, I was on a boat with friends when we went to an event at the lakefront- we tied to the sea wall and climbed up the ladder on the wall; must have been over ten feet. Fast forward, a friends' boat was docked at a local yacht club and at some point, he had to add a step below the dock in order to step into the boat without dealing with a major height difference. Same boat and slip, ten years later, he had to add a step ON the dock, to allow stepping up to get into the boat. This past Winter, Lake Michigan didn't freeze and a bad storm rolled through with 50 MPH winds, along with 20 plus foot waves. The water is only a few feet below the top of the break walls on a calm day but when the wind comes from the East, Northeast or Southeast, it goes over the walls easily. No ice, high water level and high wind caused this- the place was so heavily damaged that they had no boats docking and then, COVID struck, so they basically lost most of the business they would have had. Still waiting on Federal aid (FEMA)- if it has come in, the County may have used it for something else.

 
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IansDad88(Don)

Audioholic
I thought it was in the late-'70s or early-'80s that they were saying we're headed toward another Ice Age. My, how things have changed.
Not sure I remember that. My whole life has been "Warming" issues, and my earliest memories are of Polar Bears and shrinking ice. I can't say I remember talk of an Ice age. Though clearly that would suck just as much..!
 
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lp85253

Audioholic Chief
Yeah, but if you have seen his historic voting habits and attitudes, it wasn't because he suddenly became a good person. Look for his quotes about what would happen if they passed the Equal Rights Amendment- Snopes determined that there's no proof he made some of the comments, but it wouldn't be out of character if he had.


I would have thought this country would have progressed more since the mid-'60s. Just one of the many reasons I'm disappointed.
i was specifically referring to the civil rights act of 1964.. and the voting rights act.. watershed marks in America, rhetoric aside...
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Not sure I remember that. My whole life has been "Warming" issues, and my earliest memories are of Polar Bears and shrinking ice. I can't say I remember talk of an Ice age. Though clearly that would suck just as much..!
If you watch the video, go to 1:02 and you'll see a white lighthouse- we tied up to go in less than ten years ago and the water was well below the top of the wall. The waterline can be seen on the concrete base and it's above the level of the door sill. The sea wall at about 1:45 is only about 3'-4' from the water and a walkway was usable for walking and fishing but that's covered, now.

 
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