Outlaw 7000x question

[keepr88]

Hi. Ive just purchased an outlaw 7000x and i didnt purchase it for this exact reason but my front LR speakers are paradigm monitor 11 v7 and i was curious if i could/should remove the jumpers from the paradigms and use 4 channels on the 7000x to power the front LR, then use the rest to power the center and 2 surrounds in a 5.1.4 system. I plant to let the marantz sr2013 power the atmos channels. Any thoughts would be appreciated this is my first separate amp. Thx!

 

[lovinthehd]

I wouldn't bother myself. Check this article out https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

 

[mazersteven]

I don't believe you would end up with any Audibel Gains JMO. That's a nice amp

 

[keepr88]

I see...i do remember that video!!.. Although, its been some time since i watched it from the hugo days. According to outlaw i need 110 watts for cinema level sound in my set up.....if i use only 5 channels from the 7000x for the bed channels or even just 3 for the LCR being as its rated for 130w all channels driven would it be rated higher at 3 or 5 channels driven?

 

[lovinthehd]

Never watched the video myself, prefer to read Bottom line is if you want more power, get a more powerful amp....the advantage of passive bi-amping is minimal. The ACD rating does drop off from the 2 ch rating I would assume; you can see such in the measurements of the similar 5000 model....https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements. Then again how likely are you going to need max power in each channel simultaneously?

 

[keepr88]

Thanks for pointing out those measurements i had watched the video recently and gene mentioned it had outperformed its specs but seeing the 2ch driven measurements im sure ill be perfectly happy with this amp for music and HT. Maybe reading is better than the videos

 

[PENG]

If you have the SR6013 or 7013, I would say save your money for something else. There will be absolutely no gain pairing with the Outlaw amp unless you listen to 5 or 7 channel stereo at near reference level (most people don't come close to such loud level).

The Outlaw amp would gain you about 2 dB of sound pressure level for 5 Ch stereo mode listening. Under 2, 3 channel driven condition, the difference would be less than 0.5 dB. So practically you will end up with no gain except more wires, cluttering. Either way, it would be a good idea to spend $10 on an external fan to help cool the Marantz.

 

[keepr88]

I was curious about how much difference it would make over the sr6013. I feel like i dont get a ton of dynamic range from the paradigms. They sound terrific and they certainly get loud but that impact is missing, i wasnt sure if it was the sr6013 or the speakers. I decided to go with trying the outlaw as it was less money than a speaker upgrade and has a 30 day return policy. I really dont listen at super loud levels (i havent measured it so i cant tell you what level it is) so Im assuming that if the outlaw doesnt help much then i should just forget about adding an amp all together?

 

[lovinthehd]

I was curious about how much difference it would make over the sr6013. I feel like i dont get a ton of dynamic range from the paradigms. They sound terrific and they certainly get loud but that impact is missing, i wasnt sure if it was the sr6013 or the speakers. I decided to go with trying the outlaw as it was less money than a speaker upgrade and has a 30 day return policy. I really dont listen at super loud levels (i havent measured it so i cant tell you what level it is) so Im assuming that if the outlaw doesnt help much then i should just forget about adding an amp all together?

If you've calibrated your avr (with Audyssey or manually) and tell us your typical master volume settings we can get a good idea without a specific measurement.

 

[keepr88]

I stopped using audyssey when i calibrated my hsu subs the REW measurements turned out better with it off (thx for helping me shadyj). For music and movies typically listen between 55 and 65 on master volume depending on music genre etc. I had a c weighted db meter that was showing 108db but my guess was the higher levels were coming from the 2 hsus low frequencies as i run them slightly hot.

 

[lovinthehd]

I stopped using audyssey when i calibrated my hsu subs the REW measurements turned out better with it off (thx for helping me shadyj). For music and movies typically listen between 55 and 65 on master volume depending on music genre etc. I had a c weighted db meter that was showing 108db but my guess was the higher levels were coming from the 2 hsus low frequencies as i run them slightly hot.

Did your manual setup use an spl meter and calibrate the volume for the THX standard, tho? This for music or movies?

 

[PENG]

I was curious about how much difference it would make over the sr6013. I feel like i dont get a ton of dynamic range from the paradigms. They sound terrific and they certainly get loud but that impact is missing, i wasnt sure if it was the sr6013 or the speakers. I decided to go with trying the outlaw as it was less money than a speaker upgrade and has a 30 day return policy. I really dont listen at super loud levels (i havent measured it so i cant tell you what level it is) so Im assuming that if the outlaw doesnt help much then i should just forget about adding an amp all together?

Base on specs and measurements, if you don't need that last dB of volume the difference should be "0". Yes the amp will be much cheaper than speaker upgrade but speaker upgrade will make a good difference if you choose wisely. An amp upgrade will get you virtually no improvements in SQ except you may imagine it if you can see it. So no matter how much cheaper, it would still be a waste of money. Sorry I didn't mean to be blunt, but been there, done that, and I would bet Shady would tell you the same, or similar..

 

[keepr88]

I see what your saying peng, ill take blunt objective reasoning over the alternative. I feel like im in a win win situation.....sounds like there wont be a difference with the outlaw over the 6013 and thats fine i can return it and stash that money away (minus shipping) for that speaker upgrade. At least ill know and wont wonder about having that separate amp.

 

[Kleinst]

Yes, that said, won't speak for others but I enjoy having a power amp I probably don't need but still use So nothing wrong with keeping it AND later upgrading speakers... But it's true, i'm sure it's true that I might could get by with my AVRs alone.

 

[PENG]

Yes, that said, won't speak for others but I enjoy having a power amp I probably don't need but still use So nothing wrong with keeping it AND later upgrading speakers... But it's true, i'm sure it's true that I might could get by with my AVRs alone.

Agreed, I have quite a few amps that I don't need but I have them for other reasons. I only said those things because his reason appears to be for more dynamics based on what he said below:

"....but seeing the 2ch driven measurements im sure ill be perfectly happy with this amp for music and HT.

...I was curious about how much difference it would make over the sr6013. I feel like i dont get a ton of dynamic range from the paradigms...."

That's why I took the time to figure out what he would gain with that Outlaw amp, and it would be about 0.5 dB, definitely less than 1 dB. You can further double it to say 2 dB, you and I both know you need double the output to get 3 dB more.

It is better to set the bar lower for him so there will be a better chance that he may actually hear (or in reality more likely "see") some improvements. By the way, based on ASR measurements, the SR6014 (SR6013 should be the same) has lower THD+N than the Outlaw, and the power output also out perform specs. Those AVR's internal amps seem to perform better than a few integrated amps and power amps according to ASR's bench test measurements.

 

[PENG]

Here's ASR's THD+N ranking at 5 W output. In my 12X20' room my amp's average output is below 1 W with peaks to 20 to 30 W most of time when watching BR movies.

Marantz SR6014 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz SR6014 Audio/Video Receiver. It was purchased new and kindly drop shipped to me. It costs US $1,500. The SR6014 looks just like all the other Marantz AV products: I must say, as iconic as the round display is, coming from testing...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Note that the Marantz left two Outlaw amps, one Emo and several Crown Audio power amps in the dust, but slightly behind the monoblock M2200.

 

[Kleinst]

That is very interesting. When I got my first external power amp that i used through an AVR, I thought it might have been a step back at "Normal" listening levels and but shined some at higher levels. But no scientific readings there. I think the data your are providing is very useful for someone to prevent them from potential disappointment expecting a ground breaking change with this extra heavy piece of equipment that turns out to be almost no change at all (might could sound worse)

Wonder if that is a thread "Upgrade you did that turned out to be a dud " We all probably have one or two of those.

Also I think you made a point that the difference really is SHOULD only be if you are pressing up against the capability of your AVR and it's only that last few DBs that will come in clean. Up to that point, it should not be different. Right? It's funny, whether it's testing out my speakers or Subs, I turn it real loud and see how cool it sounds. Then I proceed to never listen that loud 99% of the time because.... well it's too loud

Reality is that an AVR plus a AC Infinity Fan system is probably just fine. I won't be getting rid of my AMPS as I bought them at a good value but it does make you think about where I should put my money.

 

[Kleinst]

Here's ASR's THD+N ranking at 5 W output. In my 12X20' room my amp's average output is below 1 W with peaks to 20 to 30 W most of time when watching BR movies.

Marantz SR6014 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz SR6014 Audio/Video Receiver. It was purchased new and kindly drop shipped to me. It costs US $1,500. The SR6014 looks just like all the other Marantz AV products: I must say, as iconic as the round display is, coming from testing...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Note that the Marantz left two Outlaw amps, one Emo and several Crown Audio power amps in the dust, but slightly behind the monoblock M2200.


View attachment 40033

Also one other point that is interesting for me in this chart is that I have a Marantz 6013 which scores well and my main AVR is a Sony STRZA-3100ES and I note the version just below that, the 2100ES measures even ahead of the Marantz and ahead of many of the AMPs on the list.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Another reason to have an external amp might be simply to reduce the heat of the Marantz 6013? I don't know if your unit runs warm, but moving my fronts, center and surrounds to an Adcom 5 channel ext. amp allowed me to use ECO mode on the Denon 4700 which drastically reduced heat.

I bought the Aircom T10. That was a bust. At every fan level I could hear it running. If I'm going to put a fan on the receiver it can't add noise to the room. Why pay thousands on audio gear only to add fan noise? Off loading speakers from the receiver and using ECO mode gives me much better cooling without fan noise.

Have you guys found any fans that are dead silent and do a good job?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Here's ASR's THD+N ranking at 5 W output. In my 12X20' room my amp's average output is below 1 W with peaks to 20 to 30 W most of time when watching BR movies.

View attachment 40033

@PENG - Have you found these SINAD testing results translate into audible sound differences? If you take the Benchmark AHB2 and compare it against the Outlaw 5000 will you be able to easily recognize the difference? That would be a 113 measurement against 79 or a 34 point difference.