Intel brief not allowed?

Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
And there we have it.

The first seed of doubt is planted in this thread by the Trumpista’s.

Wittingly or unwittingly we’re allowing ourselves to be manipulated. The Trumpista’s are laying the groundwork for the continuing polarization of our country. And like the little girl quipped in the old popular Shake & Bake commercial ... we ‘helped’.

Never mind that he won a close electoral vote and lost the popular vote in 2016.

No, no … there’s no way Donald lost they will howl.

I can hear it now, screaming at the top of their lungs, ‘we waz robbed‘, as our enemies toast themselves for another successful campaign in dividing the American electorate.

Don’t fall for it folks … VOTE!
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
More Totalitarianism.
Think about your comment for just a second.

Who is trying to control the way people think? Generally, it's the Left.

Who is trying to tell you when/if you can leave your house, where you can go, with whom you can associate, what/how much you can have, where you will work/what you will do, limit your income, invade your house to make sure you're compliant, forcibly make you do things that help 'the state', spy on your friends/family/neighbors (possibly with penalties if you don't), prevent you from traveling between states/countries.....do you want me to continue, or have you figured out that we don't have totalitarian government?

You really need to talk to someone who has lived under Soviet rule. Seriously.
 
M

Midwesthonky

Audioholic General
Now you know what all those calls to Putin without any records on our side, they were talking about.
He is not smart enough to figure this out on his own. He needs lots of help from Putin.
He's actually following Putin's playbook. It worked in Poland, Hungary, and Turkey. In Turkey, the masses were cheering as their freedom was taken away. It's the same playbook.

1. Start supporting candidates that have extreme views. In the case of the US, get the Tea Party support by funneling money into the campaigns via surrogates.

2. Start a social media campaigns around the fringes that would be supportive to a specific candidate. In the US, this meant white supremacists, nazis, etc. Also support the fringe opposite groups. Goal is to get them to eventually clash.

3. Get a president candidate that you can control. Done with a $250 million "loan" to Trump through a russian oligarch via Deutchabank. Hasn't been paid back.

4. Inflame tensions with placing blame for ills on a group of people. In the case of Nazi Germany, it was the Jews. In the case of Hungary and Poland this decade, it was again the Jews and the Roma. In the US, it's the illegal immigrants. Use language that dehumanizes them so people think it's ok to mistreat them because they are evil and less than human. Use language that inflames the ignorant masses. In the US, it's appealing to the uneducated white males. They are too stupid to think for themselves and see what going on.

5. Create a conspiracy. In the case of Turkey, it was the Gulen community. It was manufactured pure and simple. But it created the need for law and order in the minds of the public and therefore made the emergency measures accepted by the public. No more democracy in Turkey. In the case of the US, it's the "deep state" conspiracy pushed by russian back trolls like QAnon, etc. You use this excuse to push out long time government leaders loyal to the United States and replace them with people loyal to the president. There is a big difference.

6. Use the radical groups to inflame tensions and create a "need" for law and order. Inflame tensions via minority groups that have historically been discriminated against. When they protest mistreatment by authorities, you use fringe groups hidden inside the protests to incite violence. In Trumps case, using the white supremacists to incite violence and and cause damage. Clearly seen on video in Minneapolis, Portland, Atlanta, and pretty much everywhere else. Those people have been traced back to white supremacist/nazi groups whose goal it is create a white controlled state. It also serves the purpose of deflecting attention away from the real purpose of the protests which is mistreatment of a minority group. In the minds of people, especially the rural ignorant white masses, it shows the need for "law and order" against those minorities which are nothing more than animals. "Just look at that destruction and looting!!" Except the coordination was done through fringe social media traced back to Russia.

7. Under the guise of "law and order" you start creating emergency proclamations that are illegal, but are allowed to continue because the legislative branches are controlled by a party whose leadership has been compromised. Mitch McConnell from Kentucky controls the Senate and therefore the GOP. He's clearly been compromised and has done numerous illegal activities including getting his wife placed in a position of power to push special projects to his state and this corporations that fund his campaign. Ron Johnson from Wisconsin is another that spent his past July 4th holidays in Russia and is blatantly doing Putin's bidding by interfering with investigations and pushing a false narrative that has repeatedly been proven false. But he keeps doing it because that is what his master wants. Yes, long term, they will be shown to be the traitors to their country that they are, but in the mean time, they are still in office and still doing Putin's will.

8. Create the narative that if the election is lost by Russia's candidate, it must have been due to fraud. By doing so, you create the justification for refusing to concede and also justification for interfering in the election in your favor. It's happening daily in the US. You see it with the head of the USPS, DeJoy, who is blatantly doing the will of Trump and Putin and doing everything he can to create mistrust in mail in voting and to defeat mail in voting.

It's all been done before and it works. You are seeing it now. Just realize that when you see a Trump sign, it's not a vote for America or Freedom or Democracy. It's a person that has fallen for the long term plan of Putin and Russia. Russia couldn't defeat the US and democracy during the cold war. So he has worked decades on perfecting other means of attack and it's highly effective. What you see in the Trump campaign is the seeds of Fascism and the end of democracy in the US. And Trump supporters are cheerfully going along with it.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
...
7. Under the guise of "law and order" you start creating emergency proclamations that are illegal, but are allowed to continue because the legislative branches are controlled by a party whose leadership has been compromised.
...
Proclamations does not need to be illegal in order to abolish democracy. The rise of the Nazi is an example of this, and below is a copy/paste of a post I made last year:

I'm sure you know that Adolf Hitler, as all fascists and Nazis do, hated democracy but he certainly used it to achieve power. In 1932 NSAP got 33% of the votes in federal elections which is the last free and fair all-German election before World War II, and subsequently used that to abolish democracy and create an utterly horrible monster of a state.

Getting total power was done in multiple steps. The Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) voted against the Enabling Act of 1933 that would allow the Chancellor Adolf Hitler to effectively enact laws without the involvement of the Reichstag, and that after the earlier Reichstag Fire Decree by the German President that nullified many civil liberties. And the rest is history, if only that was so. The members of SPD showed real courage and knew what could, and did, happen to them if they failed. I wish that G.O.P. showed a tiny bit of that courage.

If the US Congress is unable to act when it must to protect the Constitution and rule of law, it just shows that the Constitution is just some words written on paper.
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
The republican party still has some use for the constitution.

download.jpg
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
He's actually following Putin's playbook. It worked in Poland, Hungary, and Turkey. In Turkey, the masses were cheering as their freedom was taken away. It's the same playbook.

1. Start supporting candidates that have extreme views. In the case of the US, get the Tea Party support by funneling money into the campaigns via surrogates.

2. Start a social media campaigns around the fringes that would be supportive to a specific candidate. In the US, this meant white supremacists, nazis, etc. Also support the fringe opposite groups. Goal is to get them to eventually clash.

3. Get a president candidate that you can control. Done with a $250 million "loan" to Trump through a russian oligarch via Deutchabank. Hasn't been paid back.

4. Inflame tensions with placing blame for ills on a group of people. In the case of Nazi Germany, it was the Jews. In the case of Hungary and Poland this decade, it was again the Jews and the Roma. In the US, it's the illegal immigrants. Use language that dehumanizes them so people think it's ok to mistreat them because they are evil and less than human. Use language that inflames the ignorant masses. In the US, it's appealing to the uneducated white males. They are too stupid to think for themselves and see what going on.

5. Create a conspiracy. In the case of Turkey, it was the Gulen community. It was manufactured pure and simple. But it created the need for law and order in the minds of the public and therefore made the emergency measures accepted by the public. No more democracy in Turkey. In the case of the US, it's the "deep state" conspiracy pushed by russian back trolls like QAnon, etc. You use this excuse to push out long time government leaders loyal to the United States and replace them with people loyal to the president. There is a big difference.

6. Use the radical groups to inflame tensions and create a "need" for law and order. Inflame tensions via minority groups that have historically been discriminated against. When they protest mistreatment by authorities, you use fringe groups hidden inside the protests to incite violence. In Trumps case, using the white supremacists to incite violence and and cause damage. Clearly seen on video in Minneapolis, Portland, Atlanta, and pretty much everywhere else. Those people have been traced back to white supremacist/nazi groups whose goal it is create a white controlled state. It also serves the purpose of deflecting attention away from the real purpose of the protests which is mistreatment of a minority group. In the minds of people, especially the rural ignorant white masses, it shows the need for "law and order" against those minorities which are nothing more than animals. "Just look at that destruction and looting!!" Except the coordination was done through fringe social media traced back to Russia.

7. Under the guise of "law and order" you start creating emergency proclamations that are illegal, but are allowed to continue because the legislative branches are controlled by a party whose leadership has been compromised. Mitch McConnell from Kentucky controls the Senate and therefore the GOP. He's clearly been compromised and has done numerous illegal activities including getting his wife placed in a position of power to push special projects to his state and this corporations that fund his campaign. Ron Johnson from Wisconsin is another that spent his past July 4th holidays in Russia and is blatantly doing Putin's bidding by interfering with investigations and pushing a false narrative that has repeatedly been proven false. But he keeps doing it because that is what his master wants. Yes, long term, they will be shown to be the traitors to their country that they are, but in the mean time, they are still in office and still doing Putin's will.

8. Create the narative that if the election is lost by Russia's candidate, it must have been due to fraud. By doing so, you create the justification for refusing to concede and also justification for interfering in the election in your favor. It's happening daily in the US. You see it with the head of the USPS, DeJoy, who is blatantly doing the will of Trump and Putin and doing everything he can to create mistrust in mail in voting and to defeat mail in voting.

It's all been done before and it works. You are seeing it now. Just realize that when you see a Trump sign, it's not a vote for America or Freedom or Democracy. It's a person that has fallen for the long term plan of Putin and Russia. Russia couldn't defeat the US and democracy during the cold war. So he has worked decades on perfecting other means of attack and it's highly effective. What you see in the Trump campaign is the seeds of Fascism and the end of democracy in the US. And Trump supporters are cheerfully going along with it.
Holy sh!t dude. That's the most concise argument I've seen that lays out the whole issue in a nutshell. Good job.
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
An interesting interview of a previous Republican campaign worker (Bush, etc.) and current Never Trumper insider on what's happened to the party since it has embraced DJT.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
An interesting interview of a previous Republican campaign worker (Bush, etc.) and current Never Trumper insider on what's happened to the party since it has embraced DJT.
That was quite interesting. Thanks.

I've never seen a Republican who sounded so thoughtful and intelligent. I admit that openly displays my strong anti-GOP beliefs. The fact that Stuart Stevens has stepped away from Republican orthodoxy seems to have given him the freedom to openly talk about a number of it's historical blind sides. Such as, the dichotomy between the crazy isolationist anti-government side of the GOP, the Joe McCarthy wing, and the capable government manager side of the GOP, as Eisenhower was. Or, the open embrace of racism since 1964.

Of course, there are those both in and out of the GOP who say Eisenhower was not typical of the GOP. He was a pragmatist who came from an apolitical professional Army background. He worked well with Franklyn Roosevelt. However, the crazy side of the GOP, the John Birch Society wingnuts, claimed all through the 1950s that Eisenhower was a communist dupe. So, I don't know who might be a better example of the capable government manager side of the GOP. It sure wasn't Reagan or either Bush. (I'm not going mention Tricky D!ck in the same sentence with them.)
 
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Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
My take is that if the Democratic party had stayed just left of center rather be infiltrated with the so-called progressive candidates (like Sanders and Warren), and especially at the urban center level (mayors, city council people, state legislatures), the disgust with Trump and his ardent followers would have delivered one of the most lop-sided victories of the last hundred years to the Democrats in the presidential and congressional elections. Unfortunately, the progressive movement's anti-personal property stance, its universal pro-union positions, focus on wealth taxes, the clumsy and inexplicable economic restrictions due to the pandemic in some Democratic states, and the de-fund police movement (which is associated with Democrats) is not sitting well with small business owners and individual landlords. The SBA estimates there were about 31 million small business owners before the pandemic, and HUD estimates over 10 million individual landlords. More than corporate and government employees, these two groups are deeply invested in private property rights, and they despise high taxation rates and income redistribution. Knowing a good number of these people personally, my worst fear now is that many of these 40+ million voters and their families will vote for Trump and the Republicans, because they feel their livelihoods and philosophies are being threatened by the progressives. The progressives are called "The future of the party". Threaten anyone's livelihood and they'll fight against anything that threatens it, even if those things are a benefit to society as a whole. Like the UAW arguing against electric vehicles. Or the teachers' unions arguing against charter schools. Lately I'm worried that we might be in for an unpleasant surprise in November, and not only will Trump win but surprise everyone by winning the electoral and popular votes by a decisive factor. I can't imagine his obnoxious ego and divisiveness with a perception of an electoral mandate.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The [Democratic] progressives are called "The future of the party".
Remember that the source of this so-called information is Trump himself or Faux News. It's campaign fodder, not a true reflection of the Democratic Party.

You overestimate this while you ignore the fact that Joe Biden overwhelmed Sanders in the primaries, even after he staked Bernie a big lead in the earlier primaries.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Remember that the source of this so-called information is Trump himself or Faux News. It's campaign fodder, not a true reflection of the Democratic Party.
I wish this were the case, but it isn't. Test it yourself. Get on Google and search for "AOC the future of the party", and Fox News nor Trump appears in the first three pages of the results. I stopped looking after that. The sources for the results I see? NPR, Politico, CNN, Vox, ABC, NBC, The New York Times... these sources are not Republicans being quoted.

You overestimate this while you ignore the fact that Joe Biden overwhelmed Sanders in the primaries, even after he staked Bernie a big lead in the earlier primaries.
I hope you're correct and I'm incorrect. I'm also betting on Biden being a lot tougher than he looks, and will revert to his long-time center-driven path and inter-party compromise, and ignore the superficial agreements with the Sanders/AOC/Warren-driven Unity Task Force. But what might be reality doesn't matter, only voter perceptions do. My perception is that by trying to make room for the progressives in the party they are driving away some very large blocks of votes. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I wish this were the case, but it isn't. Test it yourself. Get on Google and search for "AOC the future of the party", and Fox News nor Trump appears in the first three pages of the results. I stopped looking after that. The sources for the results I see? NPR, Politico, CNN, Vox, ABC, NBC, The New York Times... these sources are not Republicans being quoted.



I hope you're correct and I'm incorrect. I'm also betting on Biden being a lot tougher than he looks, and will revert to his long-time center-driven path and inter-party compromise, and ignore the superficial agreements with the Sanders/AOC/Warren-driven Unity Task Force. But what might be reality doesn't matter, only voter perceptions do. My perception is that by trying to make room for the progressives in the party they are driving away some very large blocks of votes. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
Who searches "AOC future of the party" for general information about the democrats positions? Is that like research on the republicans by viewing "stephen miller future of the republican party"? :) I gotta respect AOC than most republicans, tho...
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Who searches "AOC future of the party" for general information about the democrats positions? Is that like research on the republicans by viewing "stephen miller future of the republican party"? :) I gotta respect AOC than most republicans, tho...
You missed the entire point of the response. Swerd said that the future-of-the-party quip was a Trump/Fox News statement. I was refuting that. Nothing more. You can go back in your cage now.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
F?cktard really polarized your country, fueled paranoia, intolerance and hatred, killed more Americans through the gross incompetent handling of Covid. His foreign policies have begun isolating the US from the world. He spent more time trying to foster relationship with the likes of Putin and that North Korean ahole then trying to strengthen the US relationship with her Allies.

I feel so bad for your disfunctional state of affairs. That f?cktard will completely ruin your country and complete isolating the US from the rest of the world, just the way Putin wanted it.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
F?cktard really polarized your country, fueled paranoia, intolerance and hatred, killed more Americans through the gross incompetent handling of Covid. His foreign policies have begun isolating the US from the world. He spent more time trying to foster relationship with the likes of Putin and that North Korean ahole then trying to strengthen the US relationship with her Allies.

I feel so bad for your disfunctional state of affairs. That f?cktard will completely ruin your country and complete isolating the US from the rest of the world, just the way Putin wanted it.
Actually, isolationism is what a lot of Americans wanted well before Trump was elected. The same with anti-immigration policies. The list goes on. What we have now are two parties focused on their voter bases, and they’re not even trying to represent diverse constituencies. Trump was just the first one to make targeting his base his laser focus. Everyone else Is a political enemy. I’ve got news for you, 3db, in my lifetime the US has always looked like a political mess. Turning on our allies is just a new isolationist twist, and obviously a really bad twist.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You missed the entire point of the response. Swerd said that the future-of-the-party quip was a Trump/Fox News statement. I was refuting that. Nothing more. You can go back in your cage now.
Sure, pal. It still is pretty much a stupid point you made.
 

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