X4400h

[Reckel]

This is probably a dumb question but when I’m setting the subs gain knobs through the avr in the sub level matching portion of Audyssey, I can see the dB level of each sub but I can’t see what the total dB level is for all three. Now after Audyssey I can use my spl meter and check what level all three are playing at but it is way lower than when I set each gain knob through the level matching process. What else can I use to see what the combined dB level is of all three playing at once with the avr test tone?

 

[PENG]

This is probably a dumb question but when I’m setting the subs gain knobs through the avr in the sub level matching portion of Audyssey, I can see the dB level of each sub but I can’t see what the total dB level is for all three. Now after Audyssey I can use my spl meter and check what level all three are playing at but it is way lower than when I set each gain knob through the level matching process. What else can I use to see what the combined dB level is of all three playing at once with the avr test tone?

It is a great question. You can, but not easily and/or accurately (e.g. use a splitter, use REW..). Hate to say it, but I would suggest you trust Audyssey and its calibrated mic, and don't worry so much about your own spl meter that will most likely not as accurate as Audyssey and mic for this specific application.

I understand others may disagree, but I can tell you I have spent tens of hours researching such related topic and have been using REW/Umik-1 mic to experiment, verify as well as having ran Audyssey numerous times on at least 3 Denon AVRs and 2 Marantz AVPs. I don't just go by hearsay from forums, Denon and/or Audyssey. I am sticking to my belief, based on my own experience and readings.

You can find out for yourself instead of taking other's words for it, by joining the club and invest on a Umik-1 mic and spend some time experimenting with REW. There are a few threads where you can see people findings, using REW.

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

There are a few threads where you can see people's findings, using REW. I can provide links if you are interested..

 

[VMPS-TIII]

It is a great question. You can, but not easily and/or accurately (e.g. use a splitter, use REW..). Hate to say it, but I would suggest you trust Audyssey and its calibrated mic, and don't worry so much about your own spl meter that will most likely not as accurate as Audyssey and mic for this specific application.

I totally agree. Trust in the Audyssey EQ is required. Otherwise, why run it? I may move my sub level higher for taste or alter my center for a movie but I always make a note where Audyssey set them.

You can buy a $100 UMIK and spend hours with REW trying to understand what's going on and maybe add tweaks if you know what you are doing, but the easiest way is simply trust the initial Audyssey EQ.

I see a trend among Audiophiles to overthink things. Sometimes we have to recognize when the sound quality is already good. Don't fix what's not broken.

If you're not content then keep playing around. The worst case is you end up running Audyssey again to fix the damage or if you have the Audyssey app you can simply reload the old EQ file back on the Denon receiver. Welcome to the rabbit hole. lol

 

[PENG]

The worst case is you end up running Audyssey again to fix the damage or if you have the Audyssey app you can simply reload the old EQ file back on the Denon receiver. Welcome to the rabbit hole. lol

Excellent point, and iirc he was planning on getting the app.

 

[Reckel]

Thx to both of you guys. Guess it’s just driving me nuts that I can’t actually see what all three are running after Audyssey. I actually did get a umik1 and downloaded rew this past December but only played with it a few times on my 860 and haven’t messsed with it since beginning of year just from being busy with work. I will be getting the app too. It does sound great and Audyssey I believe from my experience using ypao, has made a huge impact, especially with bass.

 

[Reckel]

It is a great question. You can, but not easily and/or accurately (e.g. use a splitter, use REW..). Hate to say it, but I would suggest you trust Audyssey and its calibrated mic, and don't worry so much about your own spl meter that will most likely not as accurate as Audyssey and mic for this specific application.

I understand others may disagree, but I can tell you I have spent tens of hours researching such related topic and have been using REW/Umik-1 mic to experiment, verify as well as having ran Audyssey numerous times on at least 3 Denon AVRs and 2 Marantz AVPs. I don't just go by hearsay from forums, Denon and/or Audyssey. I am sticking to my belief, based on my own experience and readings.

You can find out for yourself instead of taking other's words for it, by joining the club and invest on a Umik-1 mic and spend some time experimenting with REW. There are a few threads where you can see people findings, using REW.

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

There are a few threads where you can see people's findings, using REW. I can provide links if you are interested..

Yes I am interested and would appreciate it

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thx to both of you guys. Guess it’s just driving me nuts that I can’t actually see what all three are running after Audyssey. I actually did get a umik1 and downloaded rew this past December but only played with it a few times on my 860 and haven’t messsed with it since beginning of year just from being busy with work. I will be getting the app too. It does sound great and Audyssey I believe from my experience using ypao, has made a huge impact, especially with bass.

Heya man, not sure I follow what you’re up to, but if I’m right you want to check the level of each sub after audyssey?
If yes, just turn the two off that you don’t want to measure. Then just rotate them on/off and remeasure
If I’m dumbuh and don’t follow just ignore me lol.

 

[Reckel]

Heya man, not sure I follow what you’re up to, but if I’m right you want to check the level of each sub after audyssey?
If yes, just turn the two off that you don’t want to measure. Then just rotate them on/off and remeasure
If I’m dumbuh and don’t follow just ignore me lol.

No you’re following but Id also like to see their combined dB level. After Audyssey I can pull out spl meter and play test tones from 4500 but the combined dB level for the subs is way lower than the db levels I set when I was doing the level matching process through avr before running Audyssey for each sub

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

No you’re following but Id also like to see their combined dB level. After Audyssey I can pull out spl meter and play test tones from 4500 but the combined dB level for the subs is way lower than the db levels I set when I was doing the level matching process through avr before running Audyssey for each sub

Ok. So if the combined is lower, then maybe you set them too hot pre audyssey. That means it’s trying to pull them down to flat. If that was the case though, I’d expect the trims to be bottomed out at -12 in the denon.
I also use three subs, and usually setting them individually at 70-72db. This gets me range and makes audyssey happy enough to run the cal. Then I bump the trim.
Also, I’m using a minidsp as well so my process overall different but...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ps. If you just want to see what all three are at after audyssey just run the time and see.

 

[Reckel]

Ok. So if the combined is lower, then maybe you set them too hot pre audyssey. That means it’s trying to pull them down to flat. If that was the case though, I’d expect the trims to be bottomed out at -12 in the denon.
I also use three subs, and usually setting them individually at 70-72db. This gets me range and makes audyssey happy enough to run the cal. Then I bump the trim.
Also, I’m using a minidsp as well so my process overall different but...

I have each one set to just under 9 o’clock on their gain knobs. Obviously the front two are looked as one by avr because they’re on a y-splitter but Audyssey set those to -9.5 and the was set at -10, I don’t think they’re set to hot, maybe I’m wrong. And I just got up and still half out of it but you lost me with “just run the time”.
It sounds fricking good now but I know I’ll be running Audyssey again and again. I don’t have minidsp but have rew and umik1 but just haven’t used it since December

 

[VMPS-TIII]

It sounds fricking good now but I know I’ll be running Audyssey again and again. I don’t have minidsp but have rew and umik1 but just haven’t used it since December

Key words: "It sounds fricking good now". Relax and be happy.

If it sounds awesome - it is.
You can raise or lower the sub volume on the level control. That should be good enough. If you start running them a lot hotter than Audyssey it may get boomy - just find a spot where you are happy.

 

[Reckel]

I totally agree. Trust in the Audyssey EQ is required. Otherwise, why run it? I may move my sub level higher for taste or alter my center for a movie but I always make a note where Audyssey set them.

You can buy a $100 UMIK and spend hours with REW trying to understand what's going on and maybe add tweaks if you know what you are doing, but the easiest way is simply trust the initial Audyssey EQ.

I see a trend among Audiophiles to overthink things. Sometimes we have to recognize when the sound quality is already good. Don't fix what's not broken.

If you're not content then keep playing around. The worst case is you end up running Audyssey again to fix the damage or if you have the Audyssey app you can simply reload the old EQ file back on the Denon receiver. Welcome to the rabbit hole. lol

I did run rew in December but I don’t know how to get the pictures of the graphs on here so people can to tell me if they’re good or bad. And to be honest whenever I run it again with the 4500, I really don’t know what tweaks to make or understand what tweaks to make. I’d probably end up just making things worse rather than better.

 

[PENG]

Yes I am interested and would appreciate it

The two below covers the Editor App:

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips)

So it didn't take long you see..... You have it very close to flat now so two things to consider: 1) Any further improvement for even 0.5 dB peak to peak overall will take you 10 to 100X longer, just an educated guess. 2) You won't be able to tell a difference between +/- 1.0 dB and +/- 2.5...

forums.audioholics.com

Audyssey Editor App- With Screenshots!

BTW, can anyone tell me where I can setup a signature on this forum? I’ve looked everywhere I could think of. Just Click on your user name, and you will find the word Signature for editing etc.

forums.audioholics.com

I would recommend the interview by AH with one of the Audyssey founder, if you haven't read it yet:

Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction Interview With Chris Kyriakakis

The Audioholics interview Chris Kyriakakis in order to learn the ins and outs of Audyssey's MultEQ room correction / auto-calibration system. Bass management, calibration, EQ and more.

www.audioholics.com

 

[PENG]

No you’re following but Id also like to see their combined dB level. After Audyssey I can pull out spl meter and play test tones from 4500 but the combined dB level for the subs is way lower than the db levels I set when I was doing the level matching process through avr before running Audyssey for each sub

Again, the typical spl meter, the likes of the Radio Shack 33-2050, 33-2055 cannot measure subwoofers accurately in terms of spl, but you can certainly use one to compare the level of each subs using sine wave tones in the low range of 20 to 200 Hz or so. It could be way off in absolute sense but it would still be apples to apples in relative sense, not sure how useful that is for you though. As someone said, before, trust Audyssey (if you did follow instructions to the letter), relax and enjoy! Otherwise, use REW, and the Umik-1 mic, if you must play around and see some FR graphs.

 

[Reckel]

Again, the typical spl meter, the likes of the Radio Shack 33-2050, 33-2055 cannot measure subwoofers accurately in terms of spl, but you can certainly use one to compare the level of each subs using sine wave tones in the low range of 20 to 200 Hz or so. It could be way off in absolute sense but it would still be apples to apples in relative sense, not sure how useful that is for you though. As someone said, before, trust Audyssey (if you did follow instructions to the letter), relax and enjoy! Otherwise, use REW, and the Umik-1 mic, if you must play around and see some FR graphs.

I’ll trust Audyssey and I think coming from ypao, Audyssey has made a huge difference.

 

[Reckel]

Hey guys. So I’ve had a little more time to spend with the 4500 and everything sounds really good in the main middle seat I sit in all the time. I have three subs and it set them at -10 and I bumped it up to -7. My thing is now the other four seats don’t have as much impact as the middle one I sit in. Is this something where I need to move the subs around, use rew or the app from denon? I can move the subs some but I don’t have a lot of other options.
When I was using the Yamaha I had to put the phase at 180 on my rear sub and all of my seats sounded really good with impactful bass. I’ve tried the phase now with the 4500 and it sounds worse. Advice is much appreciated

 

[PENG]

Hey guys. So I’ve had a little more time to spend with the 4500 and everything sounds really good in the main middle seat I sit in all the time. I have three subs and it set them at -10 and I bumped it up to -7. My thing is now the other four seats don’t have as much impact as the middle one I sit in. Is this something where I need to move the subs around, use rew or the app from denon? I can move the subs some but I don’t have a lot of other options.
When I was using the Yamaha I had to put the phase at 180 on my rear sub and all of my seats sounded really good with impactful bass. I’ve tried the phase now with the 4500 and it sounds worse. Advice is much appreciated

I found that with XT32 Sub EQ HT, as long as you have done your best following instructions to the letter, you should get very good results in the 20 to 120/150 Hz range. So I would suggest you leave things alone and accept some imperfection, i.e. don't be too greedy and end up wasting time, in the end you will end up running Audyssey again once you realize eventually there isn't much you can do.

There are however, something you can try and hear if you like one better, that is, try different crossovers, from 60 Hz to 100 Hz, but don't go below 60 Hz. Other than that, you may be able to gain a few dB in terms of smoothness but then you will have to use the Editor App, the Radbuddyssey interface and most importantly, REW/Umik-1 mic, and invest a ton of hours playing around.

 

[Reckel]

I found that with XT32 Sub EQ HT, as long as you have done your best following instructions to the letter, you should get very good results in the 20 to 120/150 Hz range. So I would suggest you leave things alone and accept some imperfection, i.e. don't be too greedy and end up wasting time, in the end you will end up running Audyssey again once you realize eventually there isn't much you can do.

There are however, something you can try and hear if you like one better, that is, try different crossovers, from 60 Hz to 100 Hz, but don't go below 60 Hz. Other than that, you may be able to gain a few dB in terms of smoothness but then you will have to use the Editor App, the Radbuddyssey interface and most importantly, REW/Umik-1 mic, and invest a ton of hours playing around.

Thx man, first part is kinda disappointing to hear. I was assuming it was a placement thing. So basically I’m going to have one seat out of five sound great?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Thx man, first part is kinda disappointing to hear. I was assuming it was a placement thing. So basically I’m going to have one seat out of five sound great?

It may indeed be placement. It's really hard to imagine only one seat out of 5 sounds good with the 4500. I have never experienced that. What speakers are you using? Do you have a picture of the room? Thanks!