Bernie.........and to think he could have been President !

[Irvrobinson]

Honestly I'm beyond frustrated with both party lines right now. Republicans and I would normally rate myself a conservative have really I just feel alienated with how they handled the virus and I just cannot stand Trump. For various numerous reasons I don't want to get into here.
Democrats though are scaring the crap out of me as well and I'm so sick of if you try to just speak respectfully and openly with someone and you question or don't agree with there policies your just labeled a Trump supporter or a racist or fascist. Kind off like what happened to the OP when he started the thread
Instead of debating the first thing that gets thrown out is the Trump card. I mean how do we even know that he supports Trump just because he doesn't support a democratic policy?
It's disgusting and just a huge turnoff really combine that with situations like Chicago which has just gotten out of CONTROL. there are cities right now where good citizens and businesses are scared to death
The defund the police movement which just seems I mean I was open to it at first but just seems absolutely retarded right now with everything going on out there
As a voter I just feel stucj between a rock and a hard place. Honestly I don't feel like I like either party right now.
I've always respected your level head and great advice and I guess what I'm asking for Irv is as a normal average Joe citizen who just wants to make a good choice this November what should I be focusing on with both parties bottom line. How do or what should I be focusing on to separate the normal election time circus from the real issues moving forward.
Putting name calling and inflammatory rhetoric aside what are the strengths and weaknesses of each party and what should I be really looking at? Thanks for any input you have

I know it takes time and effort to do it, but you can't just listen to political ads. You've got to read the individual and party platform statements. They're all online, and oftentimes you get some interesting and unexpected perspectives from them. I remember reading Elizabeth Warren's, when she was running for President. Even if I could have forgiven her for lying on a state bar application, reading her platform told me I could never vote for her. These platform statements are especially important for state and local elections. The quality of these documents is often better than one would expect, mostly because they are written by staffers and campaigns think voters seldom read them, so the candidates and the campaign managers don't edit them as aggressively as they do ads.

 

[Danzilla31]

I know it takes time and effort to do it, but you can't just listen to political ads. You've got to read the individual and party platform statements. They're all online, and oftentimes you get some interesting and unexpected perspectives from them. I remember reading Elizabeth Warren's, when she was running for President. Even if I could have forgiven her for lying on a state bar application, reading her platform told me I could never vote for her. These platform statements are especially important for state and local elections. The quality of these documents is often better than one would expect, mostly because they are written by staffers and campaigns think voters seldom read them, so the candidates and the campaign managers don't edit them as aggressively as they do ads.

Thanks man I really appreciate the advice can I just Google those are they online what's the best way to look them up?

Also it sounds like this is the best approach for when I vote for Congress or even state level officials correct?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Irv, I tend to agree but I do wonder if term limits were in place perhaps that would provide a stimulus to action ?

In an episode of The West Wing, Aaron Sorkin wrote a line for a presidential speech that mentioned term limits. The line went something like: "We already have term limits, they're called elections." Personally, I don't care much for Sorkin's left-wing politics, his depiction of Republicans as evil as a group (I dislike all group stereotypes), or his lack of knowledge about our political system, but that line stuck with me. I agree with it too.

 

[Danzilla31]

I know it takes time and effort to do it, but you can't just listen to political ads. You've got to read the individual and party platform statements. They're all online, and oftentimes you get some interesting and unexpected perspectives from them. I remember reading Elizabeth Warren's, when she was running for President. Even if I could have forgiven her for lying on a state bar application, reading her platform told me I could never vote for her. These platform statements are especially important for state and local elections. The quality of these documents is often better than one would expect, mostly because they are written by staffers and campaigns think voters seldom read them, so the candidates and the campaign managers don't edit them as aggressively as they do ads.

I'm embarrassed to even have to ask I should already know this stuff

But the truth is I've taken the importance of being involved as a voter and politics for granted

And I need to learn how to get involved

Thanks again for your advice

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thanks man I really appreciate the advice can I just Google those are they online what's the best way to look them up?

Also it sounds like this is the best approach for when I vote for Congress or even state level officials correct?

Even for mayoral races and city council. I've always found them online.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Speaking of older people.....

Over the years, I've noticed something.....

Successful actors
Successful politicians
Successful musicians
Successful broadcast journalists

.....never seem to retire.

They just go on and on and on and on. It must be a huge, insatiable ego. Or like someone else said, they just like their job. Probably both.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm embarrassed to even have to ask I should already know this stuff

But the truth is I've taken the importance of being involved as a voter and politics for granted

And I need to learn how to get involved

Thanks again for your advice

Unfortunately, even these platform statements aren't complete. For example, let's take one of my least favorite senators, Ron Wyden of Oregon. Here's what his platform site says about taxation:

economic-opportunity-for-all

Wyden is a long-time proponent of wealth taxes. Are they mentioned on the platform, no, but he is, such as mark to market:

wyden-unveils-proposal-to-fix-broken-tax-code-equalize-treatment-of-wages-and-wealth-protect-social-security-

Wyden is actually not what his web site implies he is: a for the people moderate. Anyone who thinks these new proposals are just for the ultra-wealthy few, needs to read the history of the Alternative Minimum Tax system:

what-amt

Originally aimed at 155 individuals, at its peak AMT ensnared over five million tax returns, so perhaps nearly ten million taxpayers. Counting dependents, that means AMT affected probably one in twenty people in the US. IMO, anyone who thinks these tax-the-wealthy schemes stay narrowly focused on the wealthy is naive.

 

[Trell]

Speaking of older people.....

Over the years, I've noticed something.....

Successful actors
Successful politicians
Successful musicians
Successful broadcast journalists

.....never seem to retire.

They just go on and on and on and on. It must be a huge, insatiable ego.

It could also be that they love what they do.

 

[Mikado463]

while Bernie won't be prez, Kamala very well could be ...........

Live updates: Biden announces 2020 election VP pick

Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has selected Kamala Harris as his running mate. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Go Joe! Beat Trump!

 

[Irvrobinson]

while Bernie won't be prez, Kamala very well could be ...........

Live updates: Biden announces 2020 election VP pick

Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has selected Kamala Harris as his running mate. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

At least it's not Warren.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

It's not Bernie either. She'll be able to beat up Pence in the debates. We need that.

 

[Gmoney]

Well sleepy Joe just posted up his VP mate, Harris.

 

[Pogre]

Honestly I'm beyond frustrated with both party lines right now. Republicans and I would normally rate myself a conservative have really I just feel alienated with how they handled the virus and I just cannot stand Trump. For various numerous reasons I don't want to get into here.
Democrats though are scaring the crap out of me as well and I'm so sick of if you try to just speak respectfully and openly with someone and you question or don't agree with there policies your just labeled a Trump supporter or a racist or fascist. Kind off like what happened to the OP when he started the thread
Instead of debating the first thing that gets thrown out is the Trump card. I mean how do we even know that he supports Trump just because he doesn't support a democratic policy?
It's disgusting and just a huge turnoff really combine that with situations like Chicago which has just gotten out of CONTROL. there are cities right now where good citizens and businesses are scared to death
The defund the police movement which just seems I mean I was open to it at first but just seems absolutely retarded right now with everything going on out there
As a voter I just feel stucj between a rock and a hard place. Honestly I don't feel like I like either party right now.
I've always respected your level head and great advice and I guess what I'm asking for Irv is as a normal average Joe citizen who just wants to make a good choice this November what should I be focusing on with both parties bottom line. How do or what should I be focusing on to separate the normal election time circus from the real issues moving forward.
Putting name calling and inflammatory rhetoric aside what are the strengths and weaknesses of each party and what should I be really looking at? Thanks for any input you have

Man, I so agree with this. I have problems and negative opinions about both sides right now. I've never held any strong loyalty for conservatives. I have a lot of beliefs and opinions that are in line with the left and I downright piss off some of my conservative friends. Sometimes heatedly. However, we can still be friends. If I disagree with anyone on the other side I'm instantly labeled a homophobic racist misogynist nazi trump supporter. What. The. Fuk. Talk about a turnoff.

 

[panteragstk]

Man, I so agree with this. I have problems and negative opinions about both sides right now. I've never held any strong loyalty for conservatives. I have a lot of beliefs and opinions that are in line with the left and I downright piss off some of my conservative friends. Sometimes heatedly. However, we can still be friends. If I disagree with anyone on the other side I'm instantly labeled a homophobic racist misogynist nazi trump supporter. What. The. Fuk. Talk about a turnoff.

And if you disagree with anyone conservative enough you're automatically a snowflake socialist. Goes both ways when you're talking to the morons in each group.

Simple fact is, too many people in this country just parrot the nonsense the see on TV or Facebook/Twitter instead of actually reading up on things and trying to have their own opinion. It's much easier to just say someone else's opinion and pretend it's your own. It quickly breaks down when you challenge them and ask how they'd solve a problem. They usually have no idea.

God forbid people think for themselves.

 

[Danzilla31]

Man, I so agree with this. I have problems and negative opinions about both sides right now. I've never held any strong loyalty for conservatives. I have a lot of beliefs and opinions that are in line with the left and I downright piss off some of my conservative friends. Sometimes heatedly. However, we can still be friends. If I disagree with anyone on the other side I'm instantly labeled a homophobic racist misogynist nazi trump supporter. What. The. Fuk. Talk about a turnoff.

Man been my experience 100% as well I feel u bro

 

[Danzilla31]

And if you disagree with anyone conservative enough you're automatically a snowflake socialist. Goes both ways when you're talking to the morons in each group.

Simple fact is, too many people in this country just parrot the nonsense the see on TV or Facebook/Twitter instead of actually reading up on things and trying to have their own opinion. It's much easier to just say someone else's opinion and pretend it's your own. It quickly breaks down when you challenge them and ask how they'd solve a problem. They usually have no idea.

God forbid people think for themselves.

Yeah that's a fair point as well I was watching this news clip on her nomination they were discussing what she brings to the table and one of the reporters obviously conservative was saying stuff like yeah she helps the party she can finish a complete sentence obviously a dig at Joe

I remember getting pissed and I was like why can't you keep your politics out of it do your job as a news anchor and just answer the dang question without all the digs and sarcasm? Because I as a viewer would like to know what does she bring to the platform? Man it pissed me off and it was a good example of what your talking about

 

[John Parks]

At least it's not Warren.

Warren is now identifying as Kamala Harris...

 

[lovinthehd]

while Bernie won't be prez, Kamala very well could be ...........

Live updates: Biden announces 2020 election VP pick

Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has selected Kamala Harris as his running mate. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

With the OFs running for president it is a real possibility VP will be P before the next election

 

[lovinthehd]

Then again Mikado and Irv probably qualify as OFs themselves