Denon New AV Receivers have 4 Features Nobody Else Has!

[Skylarlove1999]

Amir wrote on 1 post:

“It is not the first time Gene has said that about my testing. It is disappointing.

While he has an Audio Precision analyzer, it is a multichannel one built to lower performance. So he can't accurately replicate my test results.

He also hardly does any testing other than power and an FFT here and there.

Finally, he does have much lower standards than me. He considers a 90 dB SINAD great and that is that. His standards are the reason these products don't perform any better. Had he tested state-of-the-art audio products with a better analyzer, he would have a different outlook on great engineering.

Anyway, let's hope Denon is not pushing him to get some counter PR for him instead of working with us to sort through this.”

Amir is such a sleazy person to make these baseless accusations about Gene.

 

[PENG]

This will require a 13.2 system. My AVR is limited to 11.2 internal amps. So I plan to add 3 external amps. I'm considering the Monolith 3 or 5 and Anthem MCS 325 ot 525.

So you are counting on Marantz to release something like a SR8015 that could do 13.1 channel processing? My guess is that it would still be limited to 11.1 as D+M seems to have decided to let Denon take the 13.1 on the AVR side and Marantz on the AV side. Edit: Apparently the AVR-X6700H can process 13.1 so that means the replacement for the SR8012 will do the same as well.

As for amps, I am biased, I like Anthem's. They don't have the "huge" power supply they claimed to have but for practical use they are more than powerful enough. Monolith's are great, but I prefer Anthem's smart choice to design/built theirs lighter.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The main difference in philosophy between the two sites seems to be: a) AH typically would present a balanced view, between measured results vs the threshold of audibility and b) feature set that are useful for real world use, c) would include listening test, that obviously is subjective, whereas ASR typically focused only on the measured results.

Besides that, ASR measured more things, such as 32 tones, linearity, filter response and a different presentation of imd etc., whether such measurements are useful or not, such test may reveal more on the overall results of better or worse engineering design and implementation of the dut. AH would measure more than two channel driven output on multichannel devices, whereas ASR typically don't, because their AP apparently could not do more than two channel driven easily, though occasionally he would/could do up to 4 channels by some fiddling (don't know the details of that).

A couple things I believe (just my opoinion) ASR should improve on would include, 1) while the reviewer almost always qualify his harsh comments on anything worse than -90 dB (0.003%) THD+N as "fortunately not that audible", or "not that audible" etc., he should probably tone down some of his comments on the manufacturer's approach, and take on more constructive style so that he could convey the same message that the consumers deserve better engineering and/or quality control via internal testing etc etc.., yet minimize chance of being taken as an just accusation, unfair criticism, without offering constructive criticism that were often buried in the blurbs due to his overall "ton".

I value both sites for their reviews and/or measurements, and would really wish they don't get pit one against the others inadvertently, ymmv..

Audioholics is more "user friendly" and "mainstream" to me - like you said - more "balanced".

Everything in life needs to be more balanced.

Here's my POV.

If you give me a bunch of Blood Pressure numbers and Blood Sugar numbers from your fancy machine and prove that those numbers improve Life Quality and Morbidity/Mortality, I am 100% for it.

But if you just give me a bunch of numbers and don't balance those numbers with any proofs that they actually MEAN anything other than a bunch of NUMBERS, then I don't care.

So translating this to audio measurements - sure, they CAN be nice for some of us to talk about academically. But unless you can prove that these numbers improve Sound Quality and Reliability (like Quality of Life and Morbidity/Mortality), these numbers will be nothing more than academic discussion that has absolutely no real-life significance.

Better numbers = better quality build = better sound quality = better reliability, right?

Otherwise, as I've said earlier about "separates vs AVR", this better quality and pride of ownership talk goes out the window.

When I was a young man , I did care more about fancy wires/cables, transports, preamps, amps, DACs and dongles. But my POV has changed over the years.

Amir can keep his DACs and dongles - the rest of us prefer things like the Marantz AV8805, Denon 4700, and all the other components that sound awesome regardless of Amir's numbers since his numbers mean absolutely nothing unless these numbers are balanced with proof of better sound quality and reliability.

If you can't prove SQ and Reliability with your numbers, then just provide your numbers and a more BALANCED review. And please do not say a freaking cheap dongle has better NUMBERS.

 

[Pogre]

Amir is such a sleazy person to make these baseless accusations about Gene.

What is your deal? You got some heat with Amir? He's allowed to disagree with gene. That doesn't make them "enemies". I don't see anything that couldn't be discussed over a beer and settled quickly. You're just trying to stir up shit for some reason.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So you are counting on Marantz to release something like a SR8015 that could do 13.1 channel processing? My guess is that it would still be limited to 11.1 as D+M seems to have decided to let Denon take the 13.1 on the AVR side and Marantz on the AV side.

As for amps, I am biased, I like Anthem's. They don't have the "huge" power supply they claimed to have but for practical use they are more than powerful enough. Monolith's are great, but I prefer Anthem's smart choice to design/built theirs lighter.

Yeah, it's not always about the hardcore numbers in life. It's about the overall balanced picture.

 

[Skylarlove1999]

What is your deal? You got some heat with Amir? He's allowed to disagree with gene. That doesn't make them "enemies". I don't see anything that couldn't be discussed over a beer and settled quickly. You're just trying to stir up shit for some reason.

Did you even read what Amir wrote? He can disagree with anyone he wants. I couldn't care less about Amir and his cult followers. I do care about someone trying to damage Gene's professional reputation by stating Gene is propping up a poorly engineered product for financial compensation. Let me guess another cult member from Amir who thinks he can be a wolf in sheep's clothing over on this site. What Amir posted is libel unless he has the documentation to prove his baseless allegation. If I were Gene I would be contacting my attorney. Not sitting down for a beer. LOL. Come on. Get real. But that is just me. Thanks for your opinion. Kindly put me on ignore. You won't enjoy my in your face truthful take on things. I am not here for your distraction strategy.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is this wannabe audiophile named Amir Majidimehr , former Microsoft executive with no sound engineering degree who has been badmouthing Gene saying his opinion on the 2020 Denon AVR lineup has been bought and paid for by Sound United. Amir started his Audio Science Review website for notoriety and attention. His most recent trashing of the Denon 4700 is up on his site. I got banned from his site pretty quickly. If you want to stop on over and stand up for Gene that would be so cool.

Kidding me? Amir will also probably ban me from his forum, not that I would join his forum or donate any money to him.

 

[Skylarlove1999]

Audioholics is more "user friendly" and "mainstream" to me - like you said - more "balanced".

Everything in life needs to be more balanced.

Here's my POV.

If you give me a bunch of Blood Pressure numbers and Blood Sugar numbers from your fancy machine and prove that those numbers improve Life Quality and Morbidity/Mortality, I am 100% for it.

But if you just give me a bunch of numbers and don't balance those numbers with any proofs that they actually MEAN anything other than a bunch of NUMBERS, then I don't care.

So translating this to audio measurements - sure, they CAN be nice for some of us to talk about academically. But unless you can prove that these numbers improve Sound Quality and Reliability (like Quality of Life and Morbidity/Mortality), these numbers will be nothing more than academic discussion that has absolutely no real-life significance.

Better numbers = better quality build = better sound quality = better reliability, right?

Otherwise, as I've said earlier about "separates vs AVR", this better quality and pride of ownership talk goes out the window.

When I was a young man , I did care more about fancy wires/cables, transports, preamps, amps, DACs and dongles. But my POV has changed over the years.

Amir can keep his DACs and dongles - the rest of us prefer things like the Marantz AV8805, Denon 4700, and all the other components that sound awesome regardless of Amir's numbers since his numbers mean absolutely nothing unless these numbers are balanced with proof of better sound quality and reliability.

If you can't prove SQ and Reliability with your numbers, then just provide your numbers and a more BALANCED review. And please do not say a freaking cheap dongle has better NUMBERS.

This is a cogent and rational way of looking at life and AV products. Thank you for taking the time and effort to craft this post.

 

[Gmoney]

What? Golden ears can hear the difference between an amp that can drive 1 ohm vs one that can't? Wow, have they evolved..

PENG, getting You of all AH members to "jack around" and poke fun is Interesting to say the least.
Your Serious most of the time, I read most of Your Comments with Bruno, Personally it was Probably some of the best results of reads on a audio forum With the Exception of Genes Editorials. I've done more Research on Bruno, you where right the "dude" lol is Pretty brilliant in this field. "But of course the spinoff on Golden ears or the ones who are lucky Enough to have them Deserve all the credit for those upper food chain speakers and gear we all can share in now. PENG, my off the cuff humor here on AH will get under the skin line of some of the more Atheist hard core AH members. Sorry if my take of audio Offends. Audio as by Nature is a very subjective subject. Some people don't like a Objectives out of place.

 

[Pogre]

Did you even read what Amir wrote? He can disagree with anyone he wants. I couldn't care less about Amir and his cult followers. I do care about someone trying to damage Gene's professional reputation by stating Gene is propping up a poorly engineered product for financial compensation. Let me guess another cult member from Amir who thinks he can be a wolf in sheep's clothing over on this site. What Amir posted is libel unless he has the documentation to prove his baseless allegation. If I were Gene I would be contacting my attorney. Not sitting down for a beer. LOL. Come on. Get real. But that is just me. Thanks for your opinion. Kindly put me on ignore. You won't enjoy my in your face truthful take on things. I am not here for your distraction strategy.

What?? Ha ha!

Thanks for this post! You got a genuine chuckle out of me, lol. I'm actually enjoying your "in your face truthful take"!

 

[Skylarlove1999]

What?? Ha ha!

Thanks for this post! You got a genuine chuckle out of me, lol. I'm actually enjoying your "in your face truthful take"!

Sure don't respond just chuckle. When you can't say anything in the way of an Intelligent rebuttal posting HaHA is always a good filler. LOL.

 

[Gmoney]

Sure don't respond just chuckle. When you can't say anything in the way of an Intelligent rebuttal posting HaHA is always a good filler. LOL.

Would you care to join a few of us into the world of Dumpster diving? You many find it Interesting to say the least. You'll find that the bottom feeders of this Audio world can be Very enlightening in many ways.
You just may find that your 400 buck AVR Performs just as well as a flagship AVR. or those 7 plus foot tall 180 lbs speakers aren't for You! Take a ride on the Pun side of audio, But if you choose to, just remember this, You will have Trolls following you to where ever you may land. Them Trolls are "Coders" some will track you down by IP address or even your phone IMEI number or your MAC. The way around that just get two or three Throwaway phones it will Boggle their mind. Polk Audio club is a Cult
It's not like the old days. Sound unlimited has taken over and the One Mod isn't Bias she if you can call it a she who knows. Her/He only has bandwidth for the like minded of the Nature kind. It's turned Pretty racist over there. You seem to have a good grasp of what AH is about, but be careful on here also Being intelligent they come and forth with it, is like you just stepped into a Gym of Brainiacs on steroids. Think Big brains chasing little brains

 

[Gmoney]

Sure don't respond just chuckle. When you can't say anything in the way of an Intelligent rebuttal posting HaHA is always a good filler. LOL.

I see you met ADTG, that's one of his Favorites "HAHa" Especially used when in "Context" but mostly outside Of his field of science.

 

[Trebdp83]

 

[Trebdp83]

While clutching his trophy tightly, he said, "Oh wow, I didn't see this coming. Oh, gosh, who do I thank? First, to my manager Irving..."

 

[M Code]

Amir has his opinions...
But as we have seen in multiple technical use cases he is out of his realm...
Recall his rant about pre-amp out levels..
He did post about a Denon 4700 that didn't measure well..
But before blasting it he should have tested another unit and compared the results....
The other thing he has access to an AP system but does he know how to run it, if not set up properly one can get mixed results..
Any brand can/may release a defective product even Yamaha..

Just my $0.02...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I see you met ADTG, that's one of his Favorites "HAHa" Especially used when in "Context" but mostly outside Of his field of science.

Well, my "Haha" is usually just friendly non-sarcastic joking around fun.

 

[alkemomo]

I think I posted my post at an inopportune time. The Gene vs Amir controversy has wiped out any useful advice I might have received involving the placement and value of height speakers. Friends, please read my post, # 232 and convey your opinions. I greatly value the opinions of knowledgeable home theater enthusiasts.

 

[alkemomo]

I'm looking forward to upgrading my home theater late 2020 or early 2021 when new flagship AVRs from Marantz and Yahama will be released for comparison. Denon as already released the x6700h AVR. Doilby will have added wide fronts, DTS Pro and other upgrades.

My listening interests include cable including older movies via amazon prime, 2 Ch classical music via CDs, SACDs and the internet.

My present equipment includes the Marantz 8012 AVR, GoldenEar Triton 5 fronts and center. GoldenEar and Energy Take 5 Classic satelites, Oppo 203 and the Ocean Digital WR -10 internnet tuner with 99 presets. Three subwoofers include two cylindrical SVS PB 2000 12" in the front and one SVS PB 2000 rectangular in the back corner.

In the future I would like my new AVR to feed one center, and the following L and R speakers: fronts, front wides (new), sides, backs and heights.

This will require a 13.2 system. My AVR is limited to 11.2 internal amps. So I plan to add 3 external amps. I'm considering the Monolith 3 or 5 and Anthem MCS 325 ot 525.

I'm limited to one pair of heights. Presently my Marantz 8012 feeds two wall mounted heights. They contribute so little to 2 ch music in surround mode, regardless of the applied volume. I considered eliminating all heights. I was advised otherwise. "A pair of heights do so much in expanding the width and depth of the soundstage, especially when listening to 2 ch music in the surround mode."

So I will include a pair of heights. What's best, two wall mounted heights, or two ceiling heights?
Some home theater enthusiasts employ as many as six heights. Why so Many? Because the room is large? To best meet the needs of large audiances?

My room is 14 feet wide and 23 feet deep. My ears are 14 feet from the front, leaving 9 feet from the rears. My audience will consist mostly of two people. Where should I place the two heights? How many feet from the front? The back? How wide apart? Your support will be greatly appreciated.

May I have some responses to my above post?

 

[Skylarlove1999]

Now Amir says he reached out to Denon to introduce himself and offered to help in any way that he can, after trashing Denon and Sound United for over a week and scorching their design and engineering teams. That is like taking a dump on your neighbor's front porch , letting it sit in the hot sun for a week and then ringing the doorbell to introduce yourself asking if they want help cleaning up the poop on the front porch. Now Amir wants to play nice and try to be a hero. How about just don't take a dump on their front porch to start. That would be a lot more helpful. What a class act Amir is. LOL.

Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

In my case I'd likely buy an X3700 and not X4700 to prevent extra possible noise from Auro Can you explain what you mean by this?

www.audiosciencereview.com