Yamaha A- S801 or Arcam SA 20 to drive Monitor Audio Gold 100 5g

[smallboydanger]

Hello everyone,
Do any of you guys have experience with both Yamaha A- S801 or Arcam SA 20 to drive Monitor Audio Gold 100 5g?

 

[John Parks]

Howdy and welcome to AH! Can you explain how you will set this up? I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that in order for something like this to work, the integrated amp would need something like a home theater bypass like on the Parasound Hint 6:

So for HT, would you have a connection from a pre amp output on your AVR to an input on the Arcam/Yamaha, which would in turn be at a fixed volume from which the volume is adjusted via voltage output from the AVR?

BTW, the prevailing opinion here on AH is that an amp is an amp is an amp (i.e., no sound difference if operating within respective parameters) and that you would be wasting your money (I am not saying either way). That being said, I am very familiar with the A-S801 and think is is a fantastic piece of kit. I do not have first hand experience with the SA20, but am curious as I like Arcam's stuff...

 

[Zildjianmeister]

I actually have the Parasound halo integrated (the original) and it's a tank for power. I agree with @John Parks that if it's a power issue it may help but not sure how much the sound will improve. If your avr handles those speakers ok perhaps just add an external dac if you want improvement in sound? Not sure that would help.
Those speakers are 4ohm nominal and around 86db sensitive. You've had no issues driving those speakers for movies or 2 channel with the 870?

I like yamaha for the reliability factor. My yamaha avr is 21 yrs old.

z

 

[smallboydanger]

Howdy and welcome to AH! Can you explain how you will set this up? I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that in order for something like this to work, the integrated amp would need something like a home theater bypass like on the Parasound Hint 6:
View attachment 36952
So for HT, would you have a connection from a pre amp output on your AVR to an input on the Arcam/Yamaha, which would in turn be at a fixed volume from which the volume is adjusted via voltage output from the AVR?

BTW, the prevailing opinion here on AH is that an amp is an amp is an amp (i.e., no sound difference if operating within respective parameters) and that you would be wasting your money (I am not saying either way). That being said, I am very familiar with the A-S801 and think is is a fantastic piece of kit. I do not have first hand experience with the SA20, but am curious as I like Arcam's stuff...

Thanks for welcoming me on here John Parks,
The way I will be hooking this up is going from the front pre-outs on my Yamaha RXA 870 AVR to one of the Rca inputs on the Yamaha intergrated 801 , I will manually set the volume on the 801 to a specific point where it sounds just right with the Yamaha AVR. I am currently doing this with a very old Arcam Avr 250( which only powers my front speakers) but this time I want to replace the old Arcam AVR with a dedicated stereo amp so whilst HT bypass is a great feature to have I can manage without it.
I noticed a great improvement in sound quality doing it this way than using just the yamaha AVR to listen to 2 channel stereo

 

[lovinthehd]

What doesn't your 870 do well in driving those speakers? Why another integrated amp instead of a power amp?

 

[Pogre]

Hello everyone,
Do any of you guys have experience with both Yamaha A- S801 or Arcam SA 20 to drive Monitor Audio Gold 100 5g.
Will be using this as part of A home Theatre setup hooked up to my Yamaha RX 870 ( which is great for movies but not that great for music) to power only my front monitor audio Gold speakers, So I can get the best of both worlds (great Hifi 2 channel stereo system plus great 5 .1..2 home theatre system).
would really appreciate advice on this.

The 870 is not great for music? You're still going to be using it for your processing anyway so I wouldn't expect any difference in sound quality, tho the Yamaha might run cooler. The 801 specs almost identical with the 870.

Nice speakers you got there, btw. What kind of subs are you running?

 

[Pogre]

What doesn't your 870 do well in driving those speakers? Why another integrated amp instead of a power amp?

Exactly what I was thinking. Or why an amp at all, really.

 

[PENG]

The way I will be hooking this up is going from the front pre-outs on my Yamaha RXA 870 AVR to one of the Rca inputs on the Yamaha intergrated 801 , I will manually set the volume on the 801 to a specific point where it sounds just right with the Yamaha AVR.

The A-S801 is an AVR based integrated amp, not a real thing in my book. It does have a more powerful amp section with a larger power supply that is more suited to 4 ohm speakers (not much a factor though if you sit close enough). Imo, many got sucked into it based on Yamaha's excellent marketing material, forum hearsay/review, plus perhaps to some extent, the good reviews on its predecessor A-S700, that is what I would consider a real integrated amp. That is, one that is not based on AVRs.

You Monitor Audio gold bookshelf can only handle 120 W right, and that's 4 ohms so the RX-A870 should still be adequate for the job if you are sitting close enough to the speakers. Your photo seems to show a bed room system, but what is the seating distance anyway?

I highly doubt it could sound really better the way you connect them together even if it is a power output related issue. If it is not about power, then I have no idea why/how it could do better with two preamps in the signal path.

If you want to use an amp with an AVR you should stick to a power amp, or an integrated amp that has the HT bypass feature as other have mentioned. Please also note that Yamaha AVRs, at least the ones below the RX-A1080, typically don't do well as preamp because of their relative high distortions when the output voltage exceeds 1 to 1.2 V. Gene mentioned something to that effect in his review of the RX-A860.

 

[PENG]

Exactly what I was thinking. Or why an amp at all, really.

That, to me is a million dollar question. How many times (stopped counting long ago) have we seen questions on whether to add, or upgrade to an integrated amps? As though integrated amp is a superior product for the best sound quality.

It get worse now when there are AVRs based integrated amps popping up in recent years, like the A-S801. No wonder nowadays, it is the sales/marketing groups that have more say, and enjoy higher pay than those in the design/engineering/developing teams. People in the Americas need to wake up.., or we are going to fall behind soon in science and technology as more and more brilliant young people are going to business schools, computer science, software engineering, medical etc.. and engineering schools would fail to attract..

 

[Pogre]

That, to me is a million dollar question. How many times (stopped counting long ago) have we seen questions on whether to add, or upgrade to an integrated amps? As though integrated amp is a superior product for the best sound quality.

It get worse now when there are AVRs based integrated amps popping up in recent years, like the A-S801. No wonder nowadays, it is the sales/marketing groups that have more say, and enjoy higher pay than those in the design/engineering/developing teams. People in the Americas need to wake up.., or we are going to fall behind soon in science and technology as more and more brilliant young people are going to business schools, computer science, software engineering, medical etc.. and engineering schools would fail to attract..

What you pointed out about having an additional preamp in the chain is another consideration. Adding another step in processing doesn't make sense to me.

 

[smallboydanger]

What doesn't your 870 do well in driving those speakers? Why another integrated amp instead of a power amp?

Hi Peng I am doing this because most Avr receivers are great for movies but not as good as stereo intergrated amps when it comes to 2 channel music.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi Peng I am doing this because most Avr receivers are great for movies but not as good as stereo intergrated amps when it comes to 2 channel music.

You watched a video and that's how you come up with that theory?

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello everyone,
Do any of you guys have experience with both Yamaha A- S801 or Arcam SA 20 to drive Monitor Audio Gold 100 5g.
Will be using this as part of A home Theatre setup hooked up to my Yamaha RX 870 ( which is great for movies but not that great for music) to power only my front monitor audio Gold speakers, So I can get the best of both worlds (great Hifi 2 channel stereo system plus great 5 .1..2 home theatre system).
would really appreciate advice on this.

I don't think you will really improve your situation with amplification. As so often the problem is speakers. You will not solve the problem with an amplifier.

This is the FR.

This the waterfall plot.

In the crossover region, impedance has been shown to drop to 2.7 ohms, with a phase angle between voltage and current of -65 degress!

The reviewer described the sound as lacking in body and brash.

So these speakers have to be added to the very long list of incompetently designed speakers.

All this data shows severe problems at crossover, especially the waterfall plot. The FR, impedance and phase angle confirm incompetence.

The tweeter is obviously getting into trouble at around 10 kHz.

The thing though that probably makes this speaker perform so poorly on music though is that dip centered on 400 Hz. A speaker really must have a midband response as flat as a pan. A tip like that centered on 400 Hz is highly audible, and that sort of response really produces a poor sound lacking in body.

So if you don't like what you hear, and from what I see, I wouldn't either, then the remedy is to go speaker shopping and choose your speakers with more care.

 

[PENG]

Hi Peng I am doing this because most Avr receivers are great for movies but not as good as stereo intergrated amps when it comes to 2 channel music.

I would suggest if you are interested in objective views based on facts and data, read more online reviews that include bench test measurements, instead of subjective views. It is not a rule that AVRs are only good for movies. AVRs can be better than integrated amps in specs and bench test measurements, but the reverse can also be true. So again, those who made such claims in a general statement form is simply spreading hearsay. I would also suggest you don't take part in furthering such false claims (false if stated as a general statement, or a rule), and instead focus more on objective views based on facts and figures.

Those who have responded to your question so far also own separates and/or integrated amps, not just AVRs. So we based our opinions on specs (we all tend to read a lot..), bench test measurements, and our own experience accumulated over many years in this hobby. If you are interested in objective views based on science and technology, and specs verified by bench test measurements, you have come to the right place. If you are more interested in, and tend to believe in subjective views then we (me anyway) probably can't help much.

 

[smallboydanger]

You watched a video and that's how you come up with that theory?

Nope I was using it to explain why I did that.
I came up with this by experementation Long ago.
I think I need to rephrase my question clearly all I want to find out is if anyone has listened to these two amps.

The 870 is not great for music? You're still going to be using it for your processing anyway so I wouldn't expect any difference in sound quality, tho the Yamaha might run cooler. The 801 specs almost identical with the 870.

Nice speakers you got there, btw. What kind of subs are you running?

BK XLS 200

 

[smallboydanger]

The A-S801 is an AVR based integrated amp, not a real thing in my book. It does have a more powerful amp section with a larger power supply that is more suited to 4 ohm speakers (not much a factor though if you sit close enough). Imo, many got sucked into it based on Yamaha's excellent marketing material, forum hearsay/review, plus perhaps to some extent, the good reviews on its predecessor A-S700, that is what I would consider a real integrated amp. That is, one that is not based on AVRs.

You Monitor Audio gold bookshelf can only handle 120 W right, and that's 4 ohms so the RX-A870 should still be adequate for the job if you are sitting close enough to the speakers. Your photo seems to show a bed room system, but what is the seating distance anyway?

I highly doubt it could sound really better the way you connect them together even if it is a power output related issue. If it is not about power, then I have no idea why/how it could do better with two preamps in the signal path.

If you want to use an amp with an AVR you should stick to a power amp, or an integrated amp that has the HT bypass feature as other have mentioned. Please also note that Yamaha AVRs, at least the ones below the RX-A1080, typically don't do well as preamp because of their relative high distortions when the output voltage exceeds 1 to 1.2 V. Gene mentioned something to that effect in his review of the RX-A860.

Thank you soo much, the Arcam SA 20 has Ht bypass whist the Yamaha 801 doesn't. My system at the moment is good its just that the 20 year old Arcam AVR 250 that I am using as a power amp for my front speakers is getting a bit unreliable due to age and this time I wanted to get a proper stereo Amp for music

 

[lovinthehd]

Nope I was using it to explain why I did that.
I came up with this by experementation Long ago.
I think I need to rephrase my question clearly all I want to find out is if anyone has listened to these two amps.

BK XLS 200

I started to watch but it was very annoying. I don't listen to amps, I use them.

 

[smallboydanger]

Nope I was using it to explain why I did that.
I came up with this by experementation Long ago.
I think I need to rephrase my question clearly all I want to find out is if anyone has listened to these two amps.

BK XLS 200

For music I will be attaching dedicated streamer to stream quboz and a Turntable to the intergrated Amp So will not be using the Avr to process music just movies

 

[smallboydanger]

I actually have the Parasound halo integrated (the original) and it's a tank for power. I agree with @John Parks that if it's a power issue it may help but not sure how much the sound will improve. If your avr handles those speakers ok perhaps just add an external dac if you want improvement in sound? Not sure that would help.
Those speakers are 4ohm nominal and around 86db sensitive. You've had no issues driving those speakers for movies or 2 channel with the 870?

I like yamaha for the reliability factor. My yamaha avr is 21 yrs old.

z

I dont have any problems driving them its just that for two channel music my old arcam avr 250 sounds a lot better but the 20 year old Arcam lacked so many features like hdmi inputs, 4k atmos etc that I went for a newer Avr the Yamaha AVR 870 thats how come I ended up with two avrs and now I want to replace the old Arcam with a dedicated stereo Amp.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for welcoming me on here John Parks,
The way I will be hooking this up is going from the front pre-outs on my Yamaha RXA 870 AVR

Your experience with the A870 not sounding good with those speakers (which TLSGuy determined to have some difficult loads) may be well justified!
I think it safe to presume that the A870 is the same as the amp section of the A860, which Gene determined to be an exceptionally weak amp and also having marginal pre-amp outputs!
Here is a link to his review and a quote of the relevant comments on the shortcomings of this Yamaha AVR:

Yamaha RX-A860 AVENTAGE 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

The Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A860 7.2CH Atmos/DTS:X AV receiver is packed with excellent networking features but it does fall short on power delivery making our recommendation conditional based on usage.

www.audioholics.com

From the last page of this review: "Suggestions for Improvements"

I love all of the streaming features the Yamaha RX-A860 offers. In fact, I'd say as far as networking and streaming audio goes, this is likely the best option in AV receivers under $1k. However, I don't like how offering all of these features has caused compromises in the most important area, POWER. While the RX-A860 is fine driving small bass-managed 8 ohm speakers, this is the first time I'd actually caution people against using 4 ohm speakers or even running 8 ohm tower speakers on the “large” setting. I’ve never said this about a Yamaha before. It's sad that a $400 predecessor from the very same company offered a more robust amp and power section than this product, which has AVENTAGE moniker stamped on it. To pour further salt on the power wound, the preamp out section of this receiver is a bit weak, making it critical to match with a high gain amplifier to ensure the preamp itself doesn't clip while driving external amplification. I'd like to see Yamaha beef up the amp section so the current limiting could be a little less restrictive and for God's sake, please give us a clean 2Vrms output from the pre-outs of ALL your AV receivers!