Audiophile Cable Synergy: Real or Snake Oil?

[Speedskater]

Hi Gene, which Mogami cable would you recommend for XLR interconnects (between pre/pro and amp) 2549, 2534, 2791, or other? Thanks in advance.

I'm not Gene, but:
Any of the Mogami (or Belden or Canare) Shielded Twisted Pair (STP) cables with a braided shield would be good.

 

[highfigh]

Not all maker’s of audio Products are happy to do so. The Department of Commerce if they are the ones who watch over Scrupulous companies that Pray on Consumers with Faulty Products with Design defect’s should or just won’t do anything to Protect unsuspecting consumers. It’s done all the time in the Automotive industry with air bag recalls of Takata makers of those, Ticking time bomb air bags.
My point why should Scrupulous dealers or Manufacturers of audio video makers of products get a pass. Isn’t that the same as say Tobacco industry same thing Different pile of BS. Here these tast great make you feel Fantastic and look cool but oh we didn’t post test Results than 30 years you’ll die from diseases from using our products. My point being Tobacco industry Lied for Decades before something was done our Government Mandated a Warning to be put on the side of each pack of cigarettes. Why not something alone the those Guidelines to warrant unsuspecting Consumers.

Unscrupulous, not scrupulous and it used to be the Federal Trade Commission who oversaw this kind of crap but they would never be able to handle all of the complaints now- too many to count.

The tobacco industry was forced to put a warning on cigarette packs in the 1960s, but people ignored it. I have never heard of anyone who read it and crushed their cigarettes and decided to stop- they just keep going until they find a good reason, become ill and/or die.

 

[Gmoney]

Unscrupulous, not scrupulous and it used to be the Federal Trade Commission who oversaw this kind of crap but they would never be able to handle all of the complaints now- too many to count.

The tobacco industry was forced to put a warning on cigarette packs in the 1960s, but people ignored it. I have never heard of anyone who read it and crushed their cigarettes and decided to stop- they just keep going until they find a good reason, become ill and/or die.

Snake oil or not same Thing can apply to tobacco that was just one example used. Guess the same can be said about those high end cables costing into the 2 plus K area. Choice of which Poison to choose. One who smokes takes Risk that comes with a Product like that. Beneficial or no benefit. But I never seen anyone who walked out of a Brick and mortar store return them 250 buck 12’ HDMI cables for a refund. Gov making the Tobacco industry posted up warnings on a Product that’s known to kill hundreds of millions but looked the other way for the tax cash grab. I guess Lobbyists and special interest groups do have a place up in Washington. Here’s your Campaign donation I promised you.

 

[highfigh]

Snake oil or not same Thing can apply to tobacco that was just one example used. Guess the same can be said about those high end cables costing into the 2 plus K area. Choice of which Poison to choose. One who smokes takes Risk that comes with a Product like that. Beneficial or no benefit. But I never seen anyone who walked out of a Brick and mortar store return them 250 buck 12’ HDMI cables for a refund. Gov making the Tobacco industry posted up warnings on a Product that’s known to kill hundreds of millions but looked the other way for the tax cash grab. I guess Lobbyists and special interest groups do have a place up in Washington. Here’s your Campaign donation I promised you.

BS claims about cables aren't a health risk. I guess they could be, under the right conditions. I think a long cable could be made into a pretty stout club, to be used for beating the salesman.

I'm pretty sure that someone who has decided a $250 HDMI cable didn't do what was said will call first, out of embarrassment from believing such crap. I can't imagine how they would feel if they had bought a $1500.00 six foot AudioQuest HDMI cable- yeah, that was fifteen hundred dollars. Good thing it has batteries, or there would be no value whatsoever.

 

[Pogre]

I think it'd be awesome if Gene and Paul became best frenemies, like Magneto and Professor X. Best of friends who will always vehemently disagree about certain, but important philosophies, yet they still meet once a week to discuss world events over a game of chess as the best of friends.

Really tho, that'd be pretty cool, lol.

 

[Gmoney]

Audio products use known Cancer causing chemicals. Once it comes to it’s end of use gets put into a Landfill sits there Rotting away. Those cancer causing chemicals then Slowly seeps in years Decades into the land and deep Aqua systems. And Walla, 30, 40 50 years later children blood Cancers. Adults who never smoked in their whole life Developed lung cancer pancreatic cancer Liver disease. Yeah I can see hitting that sales person upside the head with that cable cause the 14 day return ran out. I wouldn’t hit anyone with anything but would wait till he or she was checking out a few Customers drop it at his feet and go Snake Oil sales people here! You sold me this cable for 250 bucks that same cable I picked up for 25.99 does the job just good. Turn around and throw card like Those Business cards with the website to order from. May not be welcomed there anymore but sure would feel good. I have done something very Similar to what I’ve described But with a Auto part.

 

[Pogre]

Audio products use known Cancer causing chemicals. Once it comes to it’s end of use get put into a Landfill sit there Rotting away. Those cancer causing chemicals then slowly what so ever years Decades into the land and deep Aqua systems. And Walla, 30, 40 50 years later children blood Cancers. Adults who never smoked in their whole life Developed lung cancer pancreatic cancer Liver disease. Yeah I can see hitting that sales person upside the with that cable cause the 14 day return ran out. I wouldn’t hit anyone with anything but would wait till he or she was checking out a few Customers drop it at his feet and go Snake Oil sales people here! You sold me this cable for 250 bucks that same cable I picked up for 25.99 does the job just good. Turn around and throw card like Those Business cards with the website to order from. May not be welcomed there anymore but sure would feel good. I have done something very Similar to what I’ve described just now. But with a Auto part.

That's why you should always take equipment like that to a proper recycling center and not a landfill.

 

[Gmoney]

That's why you should always take equipment like that to a proper recycling center and not a landfill.

That’s also why Gov should have banned Tobacco like whats been done with Some of those vaping chemicals, just saying tax money grab Special interest groups and Lobbyis here’s your Campaign funds I promise.

 

[lhunka]

Hi Gene,
Thanks for your interesting post. I was intrigued by PS audio response. I love Paul's informative videos and he has a great company however I don't understand how he can champion psuedoscience in the form cables and also power cables. For me it destroys his credibility when he is a source of some pretty good information. Perhaps you could also ask Michael Fremer the champion of analog audio why he publishes digital files (go figure) to compare phono cables. Thanks for championing reason is a sea of audio BS. I personally like to listen to music not cables.
I was asked by a sales guy in a high end audio shop if "my cables were working for me" I told him I think so - those electrons go out my preamp, and into my power amp and then into my speakers and I love listening to the end product. He said "what?' One of his colleagues said - I think he just told you.
Love you and your site

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I personally like to listen to music not cables.
I was asked by a sales guy in a high end audio shop if "my cables were working for me" I told him I think so - those electrons go out my preamp, and into my power amp and then into my speakers and I love listening to the end product. He said "what?' One of his colleagues said - I think he just told you.
Love you and your site

Me too. I tried to listen to cables but they just don't speak my language.

Good response to the sales guy.
Maybe I would have said something like "they are not my employees but I own them."

 

[highfigh]

That’s also why Gov should have banned Tobacco like whats been done with Some of those vaping chemicals, just saying tax money grab Special interest groups and Lobbyis here’s your Campaign funds I promise.

Last year, almost $12.5Billion in tax revenue was collected from tobacco sales. Does that tell you anything about why it continues to be sold? That's just the tax from the sticker- the sellers also pay tax on business profit.

 

[highfigh]

Audio products use known Cancer causing chemicals. Once it comes to it’s end of use gets put into a Landfill sits there Rotting away. Those cancer causing chemicals then Slowly seeps in years Decades into the land and deep Aqua systems. And Walla, 30, 40 50 years later children blood Cancers. Adults who never smoked in their whole life Developed lung cancer pancreatic cancer Liver disease. Yeah I can see hitting that sales person upside the head with that cable cause the 14 day return ran out. I wouldn’t hit anyone with anything but would wait till he or she was checking out a few Customers drop it at his feet and go Snake Oil sales people here! You sold me this cable for 250 bucks that same cable I picked up for 25.99 does the job just good. Turn around and throw card like Those Business cards with the website to order from. May not be welcomed there anymore but sure would feel good. I have done something very Similar to what I’ve described But with a Auto part.

Other than the batteries, I'm not sure the materials are hazardous after manufacturing- plastics often produce dangerous chemicals when heated for molding, but are pretty inert after cooling. Metals like Nickel, lead and maybe Tin are definitely not for human consumption, though.

For anyone thinking of tossing their scrap or old cables in the trash- don't. Take them to a recycler and get the money they pay. They don't pay more than a few cents per pound for coax, but any wire/cable that has a lot of Copper can make a nice payday. Speaker cable, primary/electrical wiring, outdoor lighting wire- all have a lot of Copper.

 

[Gmoney]

Other than the batteries, I'm not sure the materials are hazardous after manufacturing- plastics often produce dangerous chemicals when heated for molding, but are pretty inert after cooling. Metals like Nickel, lead and maybe Tin are definitely not for human consumption, though.

For anyone thinking of tossing their scrap or old cables in the trash- don't. Take them to a recycler and get the money they pay. They don't pay more than a few cents per pound for coax, but any wire/cable that has a lot of Copper can make a nice payday. Speaker cable, primary/electrical wiring, outdoor lighting wire- all have a lot of Copper.

@highfive, Although I believe Capitalism is great “Greed” isn’t Necessarily a bad word when associated. better to Sacrifice one for the good of the many. Guess the powers be just don’t see or never had the Masses of people best Interest. The all Mighty dollar does rule.> of Law. Staying wealthy seems to be The Power that comes first.

 

[Gorbag]

I miss Peter Aczel... he'd have been all over this nonsense. http://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/critic.htm

 

[Gorbag]

I miss Peter Aczel... he'd have been all over this nonsense. http://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/critic.htm

1. Cables—that’s one subject I can’t discuss calmly. Even after all these years, I still fly into a rage when I read “$900 per foot” or “$5200 the pair.” That’s an obscenity, a despicable extortion exploiting the inability of moneyed audiophiles to deal with the laws of physics. The transmission of electrical signals through a wire is governed by resistance, inductance, and capacitance (R, L, and C). That’s all, folks! (At least that’s all at audio frequencies. At radio frequencies the geometry of the cable begins to have certain effects.) An audio signal has no idea whether it is passing through expensive or inexpensive RLC. It retains its purity or impurity regardless. There may be some expensive cables that sound “different” because they have crazy RLC characteristics that cause significant changes in frequency response. That’s what you hear, not the $900 per foot. And what about the wiring inside your loudspeakers, inside your amplifiers, inside your other components? What you don’t see doesn’t count, doesn’t have to be upgraded for megabucks? What about the miles of AC wiring from the power station to your house and inside your walls? Only the six-foot length of the thousand-dollar power cord counts? The lack of common sense in the high-end audio market drives me to despair.

What I have learned after six decades in audio (call it my journalistic legacy)

 

[davidscott]

I think it'd be awesome if Gene and Paul became best frenemies, like Magneto and Professor X. Best of friends who will always vehemently disagree about certain, but important philosophies, yet they still meet once a week to discuss world events over a game of chess as the best of friends.

Really tho, that'd be pretty cool, lol.

Or Superman and Lex Luthor
or Batman and the Joker
or Reed Richards and Doctor Doom
The list goes on and on...
Sorry to go off topic but I loved Pogres post

 

[Ismapics]

Well Mr. McGowan answer is just too simplistic for a company selling what equates to luxury cars for audio. Again their whole business model is predicated in faith. Believing without evidence. To start, Mr. Paul McGowan, I could not find a bio that tells what academic preparation he has. Same goes for Scott McGowan which lists a Bachelor in arts in Linkedin. So your are dealing with 2 people that are in the tech business but don't have any formal preparation - at least academic - in the matter.

So what do they sell? They are selling you gear that may be SOTA (because they hired engineers to make it), but in reality is what they think sounds good. All they are saying is its sounded good to us, believe us - faith again - so you should like it too, because we did. In the process, they ask for $14k on an amp. its just that simple. We should not be surprised in any way that there is no measurement on any the cables, its just in which we can make money on.

The desire to make money is intrinsic to what they do, and who can blame them. Its 1986, I bought a Magnavox CD player at a reasonable price, since CD players were still a bit expensive, $230 was a large chunk. It was a rebranded for the US Phillips CD204 in black. Made sense since Magnavox was the Phillips brand for the US. So a few weeks after my purchase they opened a new Hi-Fi Store that carried PS audio. Wow, we needed to visit. So we went in for a visit and a listen, I see a rack of audio gear and see a familiar face. It was my Magnavox CD player with a different face plate with the PS Audio Logo being sold for $959. Its so funny, they still sell them second hand, search for the PS CD1.They had to use a rack mount plate in order to attach their labels and make it different, but we all knew it was the same thing, same door same, same mechanism same all. So back then they had those who did not know dupped into $600 or more profit.Thats who these people are. Many adjectives fit the description, you go ahead and pick yours.

What!!!, at that point I knew to be careful with so called High End great and to be really careful with all they claimed and said. So I come back home and realized that I had a PS Audio CD player connected to my $150 Sansui received bought from the J&R (still miss them) catalog. What an upgrade, I now had a PS Audio CD player. jejeje

So all we can do is be curious and educate ourselves. This site does a lot for that, all we need to do is make sure that directional RCA is plugged the right way... just kidding.

 

[Speedskater]

If Peter Aczel were still with us, he would be 94 years of age. That's a little old to be dealing with this nonsense.

 

[kaiser_soze]

For anyone looking to buy some good loudspeaker cables without wasting money, here's a tip: go to the local large home improvement store (Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) and find the section where they have the outdoor lighting. Look for the cable that they sell for wiring up outdoor lighting. This cable is very inexpensive and meets all of the requirements for loudspeaker cable.

 

[Gorbag]

If Peter Aczel were still with us, he would be 94 years of age. That's a little old to be dealing with this nonsense.

Agreed. The point is, that despite someone with the background and degrees to (dis)prove these repeated claims of nonsense, it still goes on. And as someone who subscribed to his magazine, I found it a refreshing take on the audiophile nonsense that gets propagated through too many magazines and review sites.