D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Hey guys I saw this article on YouTube from a show called Uncommon Knowledge by Peter Robinson the title is The fight against COVID-19: An update from doctor Jay Bhattacharya

For some reason I can't link it to this site my phone sucks at it or I'm doing it wrong

Could some of you guys that are more knowledgeable in science and in medicine please take a look at this

To let us know if he's for real and this is legit

Also to determine if it's useful information

And if it is could you link it to this thread and maybe break down why it's helpful and what we can take from it if it is?

Thank you for your time
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
It was published on YouTube on April 17th 2020 and recorded on that same date thank you again for any one that can help take the time
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I watched that video.

I agree with most of what was said.

Forgive me as I'm organizing my thoughts as I write this.

This is a new virus, so we have been flying blind with very incomplete data, which is no ones fault.

Tests are complicated and not at all easy to produce quickly on high demand.

A PCR test to identify current any new infections is crucial and it needs to be accurate and identify nearly all cases without many false positives. Producing these everywhere has been a huge challenge making modelling very difficult.

The ELISA antibody tests is just coming on stream as we now only have enough people who have been exposed to make this testing worthwhile. Accuracy has more leeway here as a few false positives and negatives are of less consequence. They mainly have to be good enough to let vital workers return to their duties and above all get accurate mapping of the outbreak now and as it unfolds.

Again producing the ELISA test in quantity is a huge challenge. This is true of laboratory reagents, As I understand it Mayo with the U of M have developed two tests to help mitigate the reagent bottle neck. I think for now these tests will be confined to Minnesota. The Federal government seems to be of the view this should be left to each state. This is not appropriate as states vary enormously in their ability develop and to acquire this difficult technology.

China has been doing antibody tests but the results are questionable. The UK in particular and also Holland have received vast numbers of these test from China that are useless.

In the US these tests are just starting up, but will make public health measures more targeted and precise.

What is happening in the UK is less clear. This is because a top secret military institution appears to be playing a pivotal role. This means cards are being held close to the chest, with limited public information. However it seems likely Porton Down have had an antibody test for some time. As I understand it they are making a detailed map of the UK, dividing it into regions where 800 test a done in each region. This should give a good map there.

Now in this video there was too much emphasis I think on crude mortality. What is of more importance from a public health point of view is the rate of hospitalization of those infected and even more important those that need care in an ICU. The reason I say that is because this is an area where this infection differs from flu. We have never had an outbreak of any infectious disease that seems to have the incidence of the need for ventilators, CPAP, dialysis and ECMO along such multi system involvement. In the flu epidemics even in the bad years we never had more than a handful of cases going on life support, even in a bad year in Grand Forks. These were not mainly due to the virus itself, but due to a secondary staph pneumonia, that we had antibiotics for. On the other hand this virus causes a novel lung injury that is hard to manage.

This really goes to the crux of the current state of the outbreak. In modern society seriously ill patients expect to be able to get into hospital. Right now in Moscow queues for ambulances to get patients into hospital are nine hours long. Further, except for the very aged, people expect life support measures to be available. In order to provide that you have to limit case occurrence over time or you run out of facilities and staff. Remember every patient on life support takes the continuous attendance of one or more staff members 24/7. So that does justify the measures that have been taken.

So logically what does this mean. This YouTube presentation shows that about 3% of the population of Santa Clara county have been exposed to Covid 19 and have antibodies. Really this is far from the 70% required for herd immunity.

This given what I said above is actually terrible news, given what we have seen when this virus runs riot unchecked in a community. The medical infra structure can not cope.

So all this explains what we now see in communities that are passed peak and starting to loosen restriction. Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan, and now South Korea.

So if we are going to take the view that we now let this rip, then he has to understood that medical staff can not be overwhelmed and people will have to die awful deaths at home without medical attention. I'm not sure society is ready for that.

So the only logical way out is a massive moon shot drive on two fronts. I agree the world will live with this virus for ever now. So that means I think there will be severe disruption until we have a treatment that is as easy as antibiotics for step throat and an effective vaccine.

These have to be developed with the utmost urgency and no expense spared.

Lastly we need a lot more public education, and also education of policy makers. Public health policies must be driven not by the state of play now in any given location, but to look at the horizon and make policy based on the most reliable about what the state of play will be. As more is known this should get ever more accurate over time. I also point out that we absolutely must not remain dependent on, especially China and other Asian countries for so much of the manufactured goods we require. It is ridiculous that we are so dependent on these regions for surgical gowns, ventilators, laboratory reagents medicines and just about everything. This has to change fast. This is a massive root cause of so much of our supply and organizational problems here and in Europe. Cutting these ties will be a big part of getting our populations back to work and productive in short order after we have this virus under control.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I watched that video.

I agree with most of what was said.

Forgive me as I'm organizing my thoughts as I write this.

This is a new virus, so we have been flying blind with very incomplete data, which is no ones fault.

Tests are complicated and not at all easy to produce quickly on high demand.

A PCR test to identify current any new infections is crucial and it needs to be accurate and identify nearly all cases without many false positives. Producing these everywhere has been a huge challenge making modelling very difficult.

The ELISA antibody tests is just coming on stream as we now only have enough people who have been exposed to make this testing worthwhile. Accuracy has more leeway here as a few false positives and negatives are of less consequence. They mainly have to be good enough to let vital workers return to their duties and above all get accurate mapping of the outbreak now and as it unfolds.

Again producing the ELISA test in quantity is a huge challenge. This is true of laboratory reagents, As I understand it Mayo with the U of M have developed two tests to help mitigate the reagent bottle neck. I think for now these tests will be confined to Minnesota. The Federal government seems to be of the view this should be left to each state. This is not appropriate as states vary enormously in their ability develop and to acquire this difficult technology.

China has been doing antibody tests but the results are questionable. The UK in particular and also Holland have received vast numbers of these test from China that are useless.

In the US these tests are just starting up, but will make public health measures more targeted and precise.

What is happening in the UK is less clear. This is because a top secret military institution appears to be playing a pivotal role. This means cards are being held close to the chest, with limited public information. However it seems likely Porton Down have had an antibody test for some time. As I understand it they are making a detailed map of the UK, dividing it into regions where 800 test a done in each region. This should give a good map there.

Now in this video there was too much emphasis I think on crude mortality. What is of more importance from a public health point of view is the rate of hospitalization of those infected and even more important those that need care in an ICU. The reason I say that is because this is an area where this infection differs from flu. We have never had an outbreak of any infectious disease that seems to have the incidence of the need for ventilators, CPAP, dialysis and ECMO along such multi system involvement. In the flu epidemics even in the bad years we never had more than a handful of cases going on life support, even in a bad year in Grand Forks. These were not mainly due to the virus itself, but due to a secondary staph pneumonia, that we had antibiotics for. On the other hand this virus causes a novel lung injury that is hard to manage.

This really goes to the crux of the current state of the outbreak. In modern society seriously ill patients expect to be able to get into hospital. Right now in Moscow queues for ambulances to get patients into hospital are nine hours long. Further, except for the very aged, people expect life support measures to be available. In order to provide that you have to limit case occurrence over time or you run out of facilities and staff. Remember every patient on life support takes the continuous attendance of one or more staff members 24/7. So that does justify the measures that have been taken.

So logically what does this mean. This YouTube presentation shows that about 3% of the population of Santa Clara county have been exposed to Covid 19 and have antibodies. Really this is far from the 70% required for herd immunity.

This given what I said above is actually terrible news, given what we have seen when this virus runs riot unchecked in a community. The medical infra structure can not cope.

So all this explains what we now see in communities that are passed peak and starting to loosen restriction. Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan, and now South Korea.

So if we are going to take the view that we now let this rip, then he has to understood that medical staff can not be overwhelmed and people will have to die awful deaths at home without medical attention. I'm not sure society is ready for that.

So the only logical way out is a massive moon shot drive on two fronts. I agree the world will live with this virus for ever now. So that means I think there will be severe disruption until we have a treatment that is as easy as antibiotics for step throat and an effective vaccine.

These have to be developed with the utmost urgency and no expense spared.

Lastly we need a lot more public education, and also education of policy makers. Public health policies must be driven not by the state of play now in any given location, but to look at the horizon and make policy based on the most reliable about what the state of play will be. As more is known this should get ever more accurate over time. I also point out that we absolutely must not remain dependent on, especially China and other Asian countries for so much of the manufactured goods we require. It is ridiculous that we are so dependent on these regions for surgical gowns, ventilators, laboratory reagents medicines and just about everything. This has to change fast. This is a massive root cause of so much of our supply and organizational problems here and in Europe. Cutting these ties will be a big part of getting our populations back to work and productive in short order after we have this virus under control.
thanks for helping to clarify.

It sounded like he isn't in favor of letting it rip like you stated. He seemed very adamant that if caps are lifted they have to be done carefully and only in areas where testing shows its a good possible idea because as he stated those models are very clear that the numbers will go back up when caps are lifted regardless of where your at. Which explains some of the reports were getting from countries where there reporting increases at least it's a good possible explanation

So if you start to lift the cap it has to be based on if there's a reasonable chance that the medical infrastructure of that area does not get overrun from what he was saying and even then you have to be willing to put them back in place if the numbers start to go south At least that's how I'm understanding it

Man what a difficult situation for policy makers right now.

It seems like we are going to have to have a situation where the caps may have to come off and come back on at times until vaccines or better treatments are available

Thanks again for the input prayers to everyone right now
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
One thing he really helped me to understand is when he stated it has the same mortality rate as the flu. But he made clear that was the case only if the flu didn't have a vaccine I think that part of this needs to be carefully understood he emphasized this will take much more lives then the flu as we know it now because it has no vaccine

Helps make a lot of sense on why we needed to take the measures we had to take
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
One thing he really helped me to understand is when he stated it has the same mortality rate as the flu. But he made clear that was the case only if the flu didn't have a vaccine I think that part of this needs to be carefully understood he emphasized this will take much more lives then the flu as we know it now because it has no vaccine

Helps make a lot of sense on why we needed to take the measures we had to take
What worries me is that this is not new information and is fairly easy to comprehend about the degree of transmissibility, particularly when asymptomatic, and the strains it has put on many medical systems in many places.....and we still have idiots (one in particular) encouraging "liberate" movements.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
What worries me is that this is not new information and is fairly easy to comprehend about the degree of transmissibility, particularly when asymptomatic, and the strains it has put on many medical systems in many places.....and we still have idiots (one in particular) encouraging "liberate" movements.
+1 yah they are a joke liberate us from our brains ???
I agree completely.
It’s definitely aDangerous virus China had a staggering amount of hidden deaths , in one area alone 40k urns so something is up , there could be over 10 strains or more ... so vaccine only works for a few .

A vaccine is not a cure , a cure is a cure fyi ../ so that never cured flu
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk-
 
Last edited:
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
What worries me is that this is not new information and is fairly easy to comprehend about the degree of transmissibility, particularly when asymptomatic, and the strains it has put on many medical systems in many places.....and we still have idiots (one in particular) encouraging "liberate" movements.
Agreed I like the way he breaks things down with the news and it's sometimes sensationalist or political slants and just the extreme opinions of people who quiet frankly are just getting so clouded with the politics and really just plain hate is the way it feels sometimes it was nice to just get a proffesional just calmly break it down in a way that's easy to understand
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
And it helps you to prepare for the long haul were in a battle is the way I feel this Damn virus pretty much pulled a Tyson Fury on Wilder on us but it's time to get ready for the rematch man us humans we've survived so much it's amazing we've made it this far Fury vs Wilder 3 coming up baby let's bring it on
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
And it helps you to prepare for the long haul were in a battle is the way I feel this Damn virus pretty much pulled a Tyson Fury on Wilder on us but it's time to get ready for the rematch man us humans we've survived so much it's amazing we've made it this far Fury vs Wilder 3 coming up baby let's bring it on
It’s multiple strains some are really strong some weak . It’s a mix of Chinese and America germs probably .. natsrs and zombie bats from space


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Good to see this- is that 1814 number the total from the beginning and if so, have they published the number of people who are currently infected?
It is the grand total. I understand your reflex to test that number, it is really low. But, as I said, this is not just because of the small population. It is not nice to compare such things, but I'm only saying it bring at least some good news and point out that certain measures are efficient;

There was an article that already did the math for how many it would be if Croatia was a bigger country and we still stand pretty firm and good.

We are even talking about having some small summer tourist season. Fingers crossed.

And once again, my thoughts are with you.

As for me personally, I stopped showing symptoms and was not tested still, just strictly separated. The amount of test available still doesn't account for testing people who didn't come in direct contact with a known diseased.

In the meantime, not belonging to any risk groups, I might have walked it off. Yet to find out. It would be nice to be on the other side of it.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
This is the official government's web page for corona. Lower graph on the right shows downward trend. Even if you don't speak my language, it is in numbers until yesterday, so you can understand it. It shows newly infected with a number of increase or decrease.

The upper graph shows all infected (red) and the green line shows the cured.

Oh, it has the English version as well:
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
No. There's no evidence at present that China built a bioweapon then released it on their own people first.


China didn't *take* anything.

American companies moved their factories to Mexico and China because it raised profits for the companies. This was subsidized by the Reagan administration that created tax incentives to do so.

Ignoring the last 4 months, US productivity is up. US GDP is up. The only reason that the middle class is suffering is because wealth distribution within the US has been changing. Blame the people that broke up the unions. Blame the tax structures that disincentive investment and pay (again, starting with Reagan).

Trump gave another huge tax break to companies a year or so back. Airlines got as much cash from that as they are saying they need now. Did they pay it to their workers? No. Did they spend it on capacity? No. Did they put it in savings? No. Did they pay down their debts? No.

What did they do? They spent it all on a stock buyback to give more money to their largest stockholders. The same thing they all did last time we gave them a similar tax break.
The US and Japan were at odds WRT trade in the late-'70s-early '80s, which is the reason the Asian manufacturers built plants in the US- the tariffs didn't apply to those goods.If consumers had been made to pay these, I doubt anyone would have bought a new TV and they weren't particularly cheap at the time. The item that caused this was probably the VCR- it was new, people wanted them and the price started around the $700 range which, at the time, was enough to buy a decent used car. Another factor was the Yen/Dollar dropping to new lows and that was significant- IIRC, it went from ~150¥/$ to around 100.

I remember business schools starting to churn out more MBA graduates in the early-'80s and to me, that's when the bean counters really started to use microscopes to analyze the business practices, leaving any concern for workers and other 'collateral damage' in the rear view mirror.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Tests are complicated and not at all easy to produce quickly on high demand.

The ELISA antibody tests is just coming on stream as we now only have enough people who have been exposed to make this testing worthwhile. Accuracy has more leeway here as a few false positives and negatives are of less consequence. They mainly have to be good enough to let vital workers return to their duties and above all get accurate mapping of the outbreak now and as it unfolds.
As I understand it, there are major problems with some, but not all, of these antibody tests. There are several other corona viruses that do not cause Covid-19 disease, but do result in infections that are like the 'common cold'. Over the years, many of us have been exposed to those other corona viruses, and now have antibodies against them circulating in our blood stream.

We would like to have an antibody test that identifies who has been exposed to only the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but never had major Covid-19 disease symptoms. If the test cannot distinguish between antibodies against SARS-Cov-2 and antibodies against those other common cold-type corona viruses, it can produce a false positive result. It takes time and effort to modify these antibody tests to minimize or eliminate this problem.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
As I understand it, there are major problems with some, but not all, of these antibody tests. There are several other corona viruses that do not cause Covid-19 disease, but do result in infections that are like the 'common cold'. Over the years, many of us have been exposed to those other corona viruses, and now have antibodies against them circulating in our blood stream.

We would like to have an antibody test that identifies who has been exposed to only the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but never had major Covid-19 disease symptoms. If the test cannot distinguish between antibodies against SARS-Cov-2 and antibodies against those other common cold-type corona viruses, it can produce a false positive result. It takes time and effort to modify these antibody tests to minimize or eliminate this problem.
I've been wondering if infections with prior corona viruses might provide limited immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19. Perhaps this might explain why some healthy people have severe symptoms, whereas others have only mild symptoms, if any.

This seems unlikely to me for various reasons. For example, it seems like people living in New York city would have a high probability of being exposed to a prior virus, yet there doesn't seem to be any signifant herd immunity there.

I have heard a few anecdotal reports of people who supposedly came down with a bad virus of some sort last winter before the virus that causes COVID-19 is believed to have spread, and later tested positive for COVID-19 antibodies. Even if these reports are true, it's a leap (or two or three) to say that the positive antibody test resulted from a different coronavirus, and that this would result in immunity against COVID-19.

Nevertheless, it does make me wonder.

So far, I have not found anything other than educated guesses (and uneducated guesses) explaining the wide range of symptoms. I'd be curious if anyone else has seen anything?
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Why are they not paying taxes like people do then? They really should since they are people.
Same reason they don't get executed when they commit a capital crime.

The good old "Private profit, public risk" approach. They are people when they wan't "rights", and not people when there are responsibilities.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Same reason they don't get executed when they commit a capital crime.

The good old "Private profit, public risk" approach. They are people when they wan't "rights", and not people when there are responsibilities.
Oh, like a light bean. Either wave or particle or both? Two faced. :D
 
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