Coronavirus: When Would You Turn The Country Back On?

JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
The part that caught my attention in his response, "cannot be guilty of a [crime] if [the law] violates your civil rights", I do agree with.
That's not entirely true; but it's also beside the point; as it's not a claim I've responded to.

On the other hand, I do think opening things back up too soon will be more disastrous than some realize. It seems callous to me, to say "screw it, let 'em die. It's gonna happen anyway". Nobody knows that. I don't have an answer, but as I've gotten older I've found that erring on the side of caution has saved me more often than caused greater problems.
Yep.

Lives over money.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
It's relatively anecdotal at this point but we'll see. Sure be nice if we concentrated our energies on this subject rather than a lot of the political nonsense going on....
There was a seperate thread to that end.

That said: There are a million "promising things" out there. I've been around long enough to see a million cancer cures disappear.

We will get better at treatment, and a vaccine at some point seems reasonably likely... and it's possible one of these blue-sky cures will bear fruit but, asked another way, how often has that actually happened in history?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Interesting. This stood out:

>>>If the study's numbers are accurate, the true mortality and hospitalization rates of COVID-19 are both substantially lower than current estimates, and due to lag between infection and death, researchers project a true mortality rate between .12 and .20.<<<

I'm assuming they mean between 0.12% and 0.20%. I'm not going to pop any champagne corks, but that's better than some of the other numbers I've been seeing.

The following is not so encouraging:

>>>Again, the results are preliminary and the study has not been peer-reviewed, but researchers found a raw, unadjusted antibody prevalence of 1.5 percent, which was scaled up to 2.5-4.2 percent when adjusting for population and test performance characteristics. . . . Results also suggest the county is nowhere near "herd immunity," as scientists estimate that 50-60% of the population would need to be infected for the virus to have nowhere to spread.<<<

If nothing else, testing will provide at least some information to help in making decisions.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
There was a seperate thread to that end.

That said: There are a million "promising things" out there. I've been around long enough to see a million cancer cures disappear.

We will get better at treatment, and a vaccine at some point seems reasonably likely... and it's possible one of these blue-sky cures will bear fruit but, asked another way, how often has that actually happened in history?
Yes well aware of the other threads but not what I was referring to. Time will tell, and it will probably be later than sooner. Hopefully we can at least keep it in check rather than jump to conclusions too early or act on false hopes, etc.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Can you cite an example of where a family who had no one else over was arrested for having a BBQ and where that arrest was related to COVID-19 responses?


If you aren't black, you may not be used to being pulled over without cause. For some elements of the community, it's par for the course.

But I digress. If you want to change the rules for stopping someone to something similar to what's required for a search warrant; feel free. But that does not address anything COVID-19 related so seems unrelated to this discussion.


People are law-abiding when they are not breaking any laws.
As I mentioned he brought it up so I thought it would be helpful if he could pull up some sources.

I'm not the one that posted it

You sure have a habit of taking one or two sentences of something and just beating it over the head don't you?

But then again your probably as stir crazy as the rest of us so I can't blame you.

If it helps you stay sane go ahead and overanalyze every little thing people talk about

But you do tend to overcomplicate things which I actually enjoy honestly it gives me something to do when I get a little stir crazy

And I do like some points you brought up as well good discussions some of it very helpful

I'm just teasing you a little I hope no offense is taken kind off helps me when I'm getting stir crazy :D
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Yes well aware of the other threads but not what I was referring to. Time will tell, and it will probably be later than sooner. Hopefully we can at least keep it in check rather than jump to conclusions too early or act on false hopes, etc.
Just appreciate some positive news even as you said if it is preliminary. Time will tell but every little thing is helpful. I've got nephews and nieces that just graduated college and have nothing for work friends that in about another month or 2 are going to be starting to feel the hurt really bad from this. You help out where you can but everybody needs something to hold on to.

So appreciate the fresh information Lovin
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
As I mentioned he brought it up so I thought it would be helpful if he could pull up some sources.
Fair enough.

You sure have a habit of taking one or two sentences of something and just beating it over the head don't you?
It's the premise of everything else he's asserted. If it's poorly phrased he can get out of it with "I didn't use clear language: here's a better statement of my position...."

But yes. There's a very, very common tactic to keep making statements based on false premises in an attempt to force you to buy into those false premises and then flip them around to prove a tautological case.

So when language has been ambiguious (as it has been here), I ask for clarification on what the claim is... and I'll tend to stay on that topic until either it's been defined/shown in example, or until I get a rephrasing of the original position.

I think his position is rhetorical and not based in reality... but it would be presumptuous / rude of me to start from there... so I'm asking questions to make sure I understand what his position is before I respond factually to it. Unfortunately, he's evading.

Why do I do it with only a couple of sentences? The same reason that I refuse to move on from those sentences until the issue with them is resolved... because to try to cover 30 interrelated points at once is basically impossible to do well.

It's my background (math, data analysis, etc)... break big problems into little problems and evaluate those.

But then again your probably as stir crazy as the rest of us so I can't blame you.

If it helps you stay sane go ahead and overanalyze every little thing people talk about
Always have been. But I don't think I agree with "over"-analyzing.

A claim has been made. I want to understand the meaning of the claim. The claimint has not been thusfar helpful in that regard.

But you do tend to overcomplicate things which I actually enjoy honestly it gives me something to do when I get a little stir crazy
It seems to me that "overcomplicating" and "beating on one or two sentences" are opposites.

I'm just teasing you a little I hope no offense is taken kind off helps me when I'm getting stir crazy :D
I'm surprisingly hard to offend.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
That's not entirely true; but it's also beside the point; as it's not a claim I've responded to.

Yep.

Lives over money.
It's not really lives over money even researchers are expressing and are aware that as the economy tanks it's actually lives vs lives were talking about here

The lives of those unfortunate to be taken by the virus and the lives affected by a world wide depression

It's a big reason why they are heroically and tirelessly trying to get ahead of this thing I'm very grateful for there efforts and there abilities to see both sides of the equation

This whole we're trying to rush the economy for money over lives people just being selfish is getting a little old

Not even the researchers themselves are looking at it from that narrow of a perspective there was a great interview on YouTube of a researcher I wish I knew how to link things who is one of the researchers trying to ramp up the antibody testing he lives in the US but is from India and he gives some great examples of what will happen if the world wide economy tanks just how millions will die from that hopefully somebody can find it and post it I don't know how to link it but I can give somebody the YouTube name if they know how to link

There is a level where the economy is no longer being materialistic it's symbiotic with human survival at a certain level seems some people are missing that

Doctors jobs are to save lives as best as they can they can't and shouldn't be looking at the bigger picture but our policy makers should and hopefully are
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Fair enough.


It's the premise of everything else he's asserted. If it's poorly phrased he can get out of it with "I didn't use clear language: here's a better statement of my position...."

But yes. There's a very, very common tactic to keep making statements based on false premises in an attempt to force you to buy into those false premises and then flip them around to prove a tautological case.

So when language has been ambiguious (as it has been here), I ask for clarification on what the claim is... and I'll tend to stay on that topic until either it's been defined/shown in example, or until I get a rephrasing of the original position.

I think his position is rhetorical and not based in reality... but it would be presumptuous / rude of me to start from there... so I'm asking questions to make sure I understand what his position is before I respond factually to it. Unfortunately, he's evading.

Why do I do it with only a couple of sentences? The same reason that I refuse to move on from those sentences until the issue with them is resolved... because to try to cover 30 interrelated points at once is basically impossible to do well.

It's my background (math, data analysis, etc)... break big problems into little problems and evaluate those.


Always have been. But I don't think I agree with "over"-analyzing.

A claim has been made. I want to understand the meaning of the claim. The claimint has not been thusfar helpful in that regard.


It seems to me that "overcomplicating" and "beating on one or two sentences" are opposites.


I'm surprisingly hard to offend.
I've noticed it's one of your qualities I admire greatly

It's nice to be able to have a gentleman back and forth with individuals here who don't lose there cool are polite and open minded

Even if we don't always agree

In fact that's the most important part it takes all different viewpoints for many different perspectives to come up with effective solutions

Debate is healthy I'm glad to dialogue with you on this forum and really do enjoy your conversation even if I do tease you every now and then

I mean it in friendly spirit

We can't take ourselves to darn seriously
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I've got nephews and nieces that just graduated college and have nothing for work friends that in about another month or 2 are going to be starting to feel the hurt really bad from this.
My daughter is wrapping up her last year (it looks like graduation ceremony is scheduled for 10/16/20 - I thought it pretty ballsy to be scheduling such a large gathering this early in the game), but it sucks that she never got to say goodbye and will not see many friends again (the initial word was a two week interruption and that was called during Spring Break).
We thought she had dodged a bullet because she had already signed a contract for employment, but they contacted her and are postponing her date of employment by an in-determinant amount of time. But she is really disappointed at all of the routine events/activities that will never happen since campus life is dead! As she puts it, she was "robbed of the last semester of her Senior Year". She gets it and recognizes the absolute need for it to happen this way, but that doesn't mean she is enjoying it!
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
My daughter is wrapping up her last year (it looks like graduation ceremony is scheduled for 10/16/20 - I thought it pretty ballsy to be scheduling such a large gathering this early in the game), but it sucks that she never got to say goodbye and will not see many friends again (the initial word was a two week interruption and that was called during Spring Break).
We thought she had dodged a bullet because she had already signed a contract for employment, but they contacted her and are postponing her date of employment by an in-determinant amount of time. But she is really disappointed at all of the routine events/activities that will never happen since campus life is dead! As she puts it, she was "robbed of the last semester of her Senior Year". She gets it and recognizes the absolute need for it to happen this way, but that doesn't mean she is enjoying it!
I feel for you one of my close friends is a chef makes good money he's good at putting money back very good at saving but he's completely out of work right now

He's got money set back but he's got mouths to feed hes handling it the best he can great guy great attitude but underneath it you can tell hes getting concerned

He understands it too and is totally compliant but your right he sure don't gotta like it we just gotta accept it make the best of it
 
clamatowas

clamatowas

Junior Audioholic

4-17-20: 1A "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan

4-17-20: 1A "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Wow, Chester is mostly a 'dung hole', that looked like a decent neighborhood
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
That has nothing to do with Covid-19. You may recall that is your claim.

Even if we take the position most favorable to the family; what does that have to do with the topic? That some police act outside their mandate and should be reigned in / punished? We all know that.

So again: what is "policing the law-abiding" that you are opposing and that's being proposed?

4-17-20: 1A "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And yet you cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

Again: perhaps you should try to make a succinct argument with support... you seem to be shotgun blasting things vaguely similar to elements of your thesis.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Just re-read the title....there's no justification for country western music in the first place? :)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Just re-read the title....there's no justification for country western music in the first place? :)
There isn't. However, country music won my wife over to my side in the pursuit of sonic perfection. She loves the system now. She's been on vacation this past week, punishing my ears and poor speakers with country music every morning... I take it like a man tho. It's a necessary evil in my house and keeps the peace.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The answer to returning to work is testing, testing, testing. Tests should be available for everyone, especially those not showing any symptoms.
A local radio station requires anyone entering the building to take and document their temperature- not a bad thing, in the absence of easy access to actual tests.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My daughter is wrapping up her last year (it looks like graduation ceremony is scheduled for 10/16/20 - I thought it pretty ballsy to be scheduling such a large gathering this early in the game), but it sucks that she never got to say goodbye and will not see many friends again (the initial word was a two week interruption and that was called during Spring Break).
We thought she had dodged a bullet because she had already signed a contract for employment, but they contacted her and are postponing her date of employment by an in-determinant amount of time. But she is really disappointed at all of the routine events/activities that will never happen since campus life is dead! As she puts it, she was "robbed of the last semester of her Senior Year". She gets it and recognizes the absolute need for it to happen this way, but that doesn't mean she is enjoying it!
If they're friends, they have contact info for everyone, right? They could schedule some kind of gathering when this is over to the extent that it's allowable.

WRT being robbed of her last semester, it sucks, but think about people who have lived in war zones and didn't get to have their schooling, at all, lost most of their friends and it lasted years, rather than months.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
WRT being robbed of her last semester, it sucks, but think about people who have lived in war zones and didn't get to have their schooling, at all, lost most of their friends and it lasted years, rather than months.
Agreed. It sucks, but also its a first-world problem.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
If they're friends, they have contact info for everyone, right? They could schedule some kind of gathering when this is over to the extent that it's allowable.

WRT being robbed of her last semester, it sucks, but think about people who have lived in war zones and didn't get to have their schooling, at all, lost most of their friends and it lasted years, rather than months.
Like I said, she gets it! She understands the need for the situation to be managed the way it is.
Certainly she and her closer friends will maintain contact through this and being in a Sorority, they will probably have some type of post-CV event, but she is a very relationship oriented girl and not having the chance to say goodbye to the special needs kids she has bonded with, casual classmate acquaintances, her favorite teachers, etc. is a disappointment - maybe I should phrase it as "a loss of opportunity for closure". She doesn't whine about it, but she is honest with herself about it. She is very aware that her disappointment is far below the crisis that many of her peers (and others) are confronted with. She commented on how fortunate she was that she had not yet signed a lease for the apartment she planned to split with a friend, so while she will miss the May employment she had expected, she is lucky not to have such obligations/bills to pay - she can simply move back in with me for the interim without any financial entanglements!
I know a lot of people complain about the current generation of youth being spoiled. I have to confess that I have generally made life easy for her, I always felt like a kid should be working part time before they start high school (I had a paper route starting 7th grade and worked throughout my school years)! However, she started helping teachers with special needs kids in Elementary school and has found a way to commit time to helping these kids ever since. That combined with the time demands of being on her school teams for debate, basketball, track, and cross-country caused me to back off of having her maintain a job (she got her first job the Summer after HS graduation working for Marco's Pizza).
Sorry for the ramble, but I have been blessed to have a child who is a wonderful example of humanity! Obviously, there are plenty of kids out there who only live to play x-box, I always wonder what percent of these will be able to properly adapt to the needs of being an adult (especially given the abnormal demands of global warming knocking at the door)! I know I am biased, but my daughter and her closest friends lead me to have some optimism about the future, which is a good thing as we are sheltering in place!

But to your post, I get where you are coming from, for me, ending school contacts a semester early without warning would not be a big deal. My daughter (and, I think, more often girls) is just very people/socially oriented. The CV shelter in place is so much easier now than it would have been 50 years ago - back when you paid like $1/minute for a LD phone call and there was no internet or cable. Domestic disputes would probably be through the roof (they probably are higher than normal as is). We are physically isolated, but far from mentally isolated!
 

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