Power calculator ( Amp , AVR) - How much power do I need ?

[AVUser001]

I posted this originally on a different thread here , but reposting it , as a separate thread for visibility and its broader impact.

I need to let out a pet peeve , on the Power calculator, often referred to by many of our AH members..,when someone asks in the forum , what kinda amp or AVR is suitable for my speaker for my room or how much power do I need to drive a speaker etc..Often they get pointed to this Peak SPL Calculator .

While it does adequately what its intended for (to get the SPL for a given sensitivity , power input at MLP)..., it lacks in many aspects and can infact be misleading if not applied correctly (esp by inexperienced people), I think. Lets look at this closely...,

All it takes as User inputs are Sensitivity , Amp power( the very thing the people are trying to find out! ), distance to MLP, #Speakers and boundary reinforcement and spits out dB SPL at MLP.

1st gap:
To get the required amp power, for a given SPL, you need to keep trying different Watts as input, until you hit the required SPL . The quickest and right way to do this would be to punch in your required SPL and the calculator to spit out the required power ... not the other way around like this calculator does!
There's no way to input the average SPL !

2nd gap:
This calculator implicitly assumes 8 Ohms speaker! What do you do , when your speaker has a 4 ohm nominal impedence ? An inexperienced person may not even realize this and just use the Watts as it is...leading to a gross mistake in power requirement.
To get the right Watts, for a 4 Ohm speaker, you'd have to double the amp power from this calculator
OR
derate the speaker sensitivity by 3 dB to get the watts, at the same implied 8 ohms

3rd gap:
No place to input headroom required to account for peaks in SPL.
You'd have to manually keep adjusting the Amp power ,until you hit your desired headroom (say +20 db)

4th gap:
Doesnt clearly distinguish equivalent RMS Watts and Peak Watts. Again can mislead people, where they can unwantedly double the power again , to get the peak!

There are better Amp power calculators out there...that addresses the above gaps . Maybe we should redirect people to these calculators instead ...

For eg, this one from Acoustic Frontiers

• Allows you to enter the desired average SPL and get the required Peak & RMS watts in one shot. No need to keep trying different amp watts to find the right one!
• Also allows you to input Speaker's nominal impedence such as 8 or 6 or 4 etc ...to account for all speakers..and not having to play around with power or sensitivity to account for speakers with impedences other than 8 ohms. Automatically adjusts's speakers sensitivity to account for impedence ( He's incorrectly calling Sensitivity as Efficiency ..thats not right..,but that's a different topic!)
• Allows you to enter the desired headroom/peak SPL such as +10, +20, +30 etc.. No need to do any adjust amp watts further to estimate for peak listening levels
• Clearly identifies the Peak and equivalent RMS power required...No confusion and wrong interpretation leading to costly amp mistakes (like buying double of what you really need)!

From my pov , this one https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html is a little use-less for the amp estimates with different conditions..(not completely useless, just less useful and error prone and can be misleading inexperienced people)...

Ofcourse we dont need these online calculators and go straight with calculations.., but they're useful for most people with a polished UI. The acoustic frontiers one (and there are others as well ) are much more verstatile, flexible and should get the job done, without trial-and-error and further error-prone manual adjustments to get the final numbers.

What do you guys think, can we all switch and redirect future questions to this one instead ?

That'd be my suggestion ( until the audio industry switches to the more appropriate Voltage/Current specs , from the current Power specs)

 

[PENG]

I posted this originally on a different thread here , but reposting it , as a separate thread for visibility and its broader impact.

I need to let out a pet peeve , on the Power calculator, often referred to by many of our AH members..,when someone asks in the forum , what kinda amp or AVR is suitable for my speaker for my room or how much power do I need to drive a speaker etc..Often they get pointed to this Peak SPL Calculator .

While it does adequately what its intended for (to get the SPL for a given sensitivity , power input at MLP)..., it lacks in many aspects and can infact be misleading if not applied correctly (esp by inexperienced people), I think. Lets look at this closely...,

All it takes as User inputs are Sensitivity , Amp power( the very thing the people are trying to find out! ), distance to MLP, #Speakers and boundary reinforcement and spits out dB SPL at MLP.

1st gap:
To get the required amp power, for a given SPL, you need to keep trying different Watts as input, until you hit the required SPL . The quickest and right way to do this would be to punch in your required SPL and the calculator to spit out the required power ... not the other way around like this calculator does!
There's no way to input the average SPL !

2nd gap:
This calculator implicitly assumes 8 Ohms speaker! What do you do , when your speaker has a 4 ohm nominal impedence ? An inexperienced person may not even realize this and just use the Watts as it is...leading to a gross mistake in power requirement.
To get the right Watts, for a 4 Ohm speaker, you'd have to double the amp power from this calculator
OR
derate the speaker sensitivity by 3 dB to get the watts, at the same implied 8 ohms

3rd gap:
No place to input headroom required to account for peaks in SPL.
You'd have to manually keep adjusting the Amp power ,until you hit your desired headroom (say +20 db)

4th gap:
Doesnt clearly distinguish equivalent RMS Watts and Peak Watts. Again can mislead people, where they can unwantedly double the power again , to get the peak!

There are better Amp power calculators out there...that addresses the above gaps . Maybe we should redirect people to these calculators instead ...

For eg, this one from Acoustic Frontiers

• Allows you to enter the desired average SPL and get the required Peak & RMS watts in one shot. No need to keep trying different amp watts to find the right one!
• Also allows you to input Speaker's nominal impedence such as 8 or 6 or 4 etc ...to account for all speakers..and not having to play around with power or sensitivity to account for speakers with impedences other than 8 ohms. Automatically adjusts's speakers sensitivity to account for impedence ( He's incorrectly calling Sensitivity as Efficiency ..thats not right..,but that's a different topic!)
• Allows you to enter the desired headroom/peak SPL such as +10, +20, +30 etc.. No need to do any adjust amp watts further to estimate for peak listening levels
• Clearly identifies the Peak and equivalent RMS power required...No confusion and wrong interpretation leading to costly amp mistakes (like buying double of what you really need)!

From my pov , this one https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html is a little use-less for the amp estimates with different conditions..(not completely useless, just less useful and error prone and can be misleading inexperienced people)...

Ofcourse we dont need these online calculators and go straight with calculations.., but they're useful for most people with a polished UI. The acoustic frontiers one (and there are others as well ) are much more verstatile, flexible and should get the job done, without trial-and-error and further error-prone manual adjustments to get the final numbers.

What do you guys think, can we all switch and redirect future questions to this one instead ?

That'd be my suggestion ( until the audio industry switches to the more appropriate Voltage/Current specs , from the current Power specs)

I made my own, but it's done in Excel (so is the Acoustic Frontier's) so it is limited to spreadsheet users. I don't prefer the Acoustic Frontier ones so I typically linked the much more popular one (by how often it's linked on AH because it is easier for most to follow. Yes the users should adjust the sensitivity down by 3 dB for 4 ohm speakers, or simply adjust the calculated value accordingly. I any case, all of them annoyed me by the watts/power rms term they used. I understand they feel like going with the flow but imo that's complacency. I can accept how some incorrectly used English words, expressions and grammars get accepted as correct over times but this is different because watts and power are technical terms that has actual defined technical meanings, its part of what get us to the moon. Sorry about the ranting, but talk about pet peeves right? Edit: Just noticed that you also pointed out another incorrectly used term,"efficiency" being used as "sensitivity". It has other incorrect terms but those are probably less serious.

 

[Pogre]

I think most of the newbies we share that with will be completely lost with it. I can't even use it on my tablet, lol.

The Homestead one is much simpler and does a pretty good job of illustrating my point when I post it, and it's easy to figure out how to use. It takes gobs of power for there to be any significant gains by getting a bigger amp.

I really like what you're getting at tho. I'd like to see a more accuracy and detail, but in something that's not as complex and easier to understand for the lay-folk.

 

[AVUser001]

The made my own, but it's done in Excel (so is the Acoustic Frontier's) so it is limited to spreadsheet users. I don't prefer the Acoustic Frontier ones so I typically linked the much more popular one (by how often it's linked on AH because it is easier for most to follow.

Think most Windows/MAC users wil have some Excel capability.
But there's also this online Crown Audio Calculator ...,which essentially is the same as what Acoustic Frontier has published in excel format ( AF's has more flexibility being able to specify the impedence of speaker, boundary gain).
Both of these , are much better than Peak SPL calculator , given the issues outlined in my earlier post.

Any particular reason you dont prefer the Acoustic Frontiers(or Crown's ) , other than AF's being Excel ( and usage of some incorrect terms like efficiency(vs sensitivity), resistance(vs impedence) ?

Yes the users should adjust the sensitivity down by 3 dB for 4 ohm speakers, or simply adjust the calculated value accordingly.

That's the issue (amongst others) I was highlighting...

Not many end-users are aware, that they need to adjust the sensitivity by 3dB or double the power required for a 4 Ohm speaker, compared to a 8 ohm speaker. If they dont, they end up with half the power, they really need.

Not many would know , they need to plan for peak headroom to ensure the amp has sufficient power to handle say +20db peaks. 20db peak is huge.., requires 100 times the power o/p from amp/avr. Both of these calculators( Acoustic Frontiers & Crown) , encourages the users to enter a custom headroom , to incorporate those into the power calcs. The myhometheater one, doesnt .
So there's a good chance, an uninformed user just uses the output as-is and end up buying an amp or AVR, with far less power o/p than they need to handle peaks..and worst case, end up frying the tweeter with clipping with under-power.

To me, the https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html , seems was basically defined to produce a peak SPL based on a given power i/p , sensitivity, distance and boundary gain ...not what we're trying to use it for (ie derive power requirement for a given SPL, headroom , impedence, sensitivity ...,which the AF and CrownAudio calculators do ) .
That can lead the users to incorrect power requirements if not used appropriately ..thats the reason for me highlighting this..,esp given the popular usage in our community, due to its minimalistic UI.

 

[PENG]

I think most of the newbies we share that with will be completely lost with it. I can't even use it on my tablet, lol.

The Homestead one is much simpler and does a pretty good job of illustrating my point when I post it, and it's easy to figure out how to use. It takes gobs of power for there to be any significant gains by getting a bigger amp.

I really like what you're getting at tho. I'd like to see a more accuracy and detail, but in something that's not as complex and easier to understand for the lay-folk.

For simplicity, it is hard to beat the Homestead one for sure, no wonder it is so popular. I do wish they would add just one input for the nominal impedance. That should be a super simple update.

 

[Pogre]

Think most Windows/MAC users wil have some Excel capability.
But there's also this online Crown Audio Calculator ...,which essentially is the same as what Acoustic Frontier has published in excel format ( AF's has more flexibility being able to specify the impedence of speaker, boundary gain).
Both of these , are much better than Peak SPL calculator , given the issues outlined in my earlier post.

View attachment 35368

Any particular reason you dont prefer the Acoustic Frontiers(or Crown's ) , other than AF's being Excel ( and usage of some incorrect terms like efficiency(vs sensitivity), resistance(vs impedence) ?



That's the issue (amongst others) I was highlighting...

Not many end-users are aware, that they need to adjust the sensitivity by 3dB or double the power required for a 4 Ohm speaker, compared to a 8 ohm speaker. If they dont, they end up with half the power, they really need.

Not many would know , they need to plan for peak headroom to ensure the amp has sufficient power to handle say +20db peaks. 20db peak is huge.., requires 100 times the power o/p from amp/avr. Both of these calculators( Acoustic Frontiers & Crown) , encourages the users to enter a custom headroom , to incorporate those into the power calcs. The myhometheater one, doesnt .
So there's a good chance, an uninformed user just uses the output as-is and end up buying an amp or AVR, with far less power o/p than they need to handle peaks..and worst case, end up frying the tweeter with clipping with under-power.

To me, the https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html , seems was basically defined to produce a peak SPL based on a given power i/p , sensitivity, distance and boundary gain ...not what we're trying to use it for (ie derive power requirement for a given SPL, headroom , impedence, sensitivity ...,which the AF and CrownAudio calculators do ) .
That can lead the users to incorrect power requirements if not used appropriately ..thats the reason for me highlighting this..,esp given the popular usage in our community, due to its minimalistic UI.

My thinking is the folks who won't know to adjust for impedance by tweaking sensitivity or account for headroom will also not have any idea how to correctly fill out and understand the AF one. Like I said, love where you're head's at, but that one is just too complicated for your average newbie.

 

[AVUser001]

I think most of the newbies we share that with will be completely lost with it. I can't even use it on my tablet, lol.

The Homestead one is much simpler and does a pretty good job of illustrating my point when I post it, and it's easy to figure out how to use. It takes gobs of power for there to be any significant gains by getting a bigger amp.

I really like what you're getting at tho. I'd like to see a more accuracy and detail, but in something that's not as complex and easier to understand for the lay-folk.

Its simple and easy to use - thats about the only good thing I see there.. . Asking user to enter the very value(watts required) that they're trying to find out - not very intuitive ;-)
See my follow-up post #4 also , about the issues with that and how the end-users can end up with wrong figures...
There's also the Crown calculator , which has web gui and simpler to use a well...atleast that has ability for you to enter the headroom. There are others out there too ...

 

[AVUser001]

My thinking is the folks who won't know to adjust for impedance by tweaking sensitivity or account for headroom will also not have any idea how to correctly fill out and understand the AF one. Like I said, love where you're head's at, but that one is just too complicated for your average newbie.

Its a form , to enter impedence and headroom , in addition to what the homestead asks ... How hard can it be ;-)

I like the fact, both Crown and AF , is encouraging the user to think and plan for headroom . They expose the calculations too , in plain sight , which can only mean a good thing Open source ...

 

[Pogre]

Its simple and easy to use - thats about the only good thing I see there.. . Asking user to enter the very value(watts required) that they're trying to find out - not very intuitive ;-)
See my follow-up post #4 also , about the issues with that and how the end-users can end up with wrong figures...
There's also the Crown calculator , which has web gui and simpler to use a well...atleast that has ability for you to enter the headroom. There are others out there too ...

Hey, I'm on your side here!

Just to relay my personal experience with AF, I had to download it then open it with "cell viewer" because I don't have excel on my tablet and little to no experience using it. I clicked some boxes to fill in some numbers and all it did was highlight the cell I touched...

In short, I consider myself to be at least a little more knowledgeable than your average newbie and it confused me.

 

[AVUser001]

Hey, I'm on your side here!

Just to relay my personal experience with AF, I had to download it then open it with "cell viewer" because I don't have excel on my tablet and little to no experience using it. I clicked some boxes to fill in some numbers and all it did was highlight the cell I touched...

In short, I consider myself to be at least a little more knowledgeable than your average newbie and it confused me.

Got ya.., am not familiar with Cell viewer.. Is that just a read-only viewer (ie one that cant do calculations like Excel) ?

Or else, in excel, you just enter the values (couple more critical inputs than homestead) and it spits out the RMS & Peak power required..in green fields

Hey , I tried .. Both Impedence and Headroom for peaks , are such important factors , are not readily visible/factored in that homestead one - just troubles me !

 

[ryanosaur]

Agree with Pogre on this... Love where you are coming from @AVUser001 , but the other options are more... challenging, and many barely can handle the Homestead option. Hell, even when that was introduced to me a while back, I had to learn a little to really understand it all...

...And most are just looking at Amps because they are programmed to think it makes their speakers sound better. Very few want to even learn about Ohm's Law! ...Much less understand the electrical ramifications of using 4-ohm speaks in a simple internet calculator.



I've had a lot of success just demonstrating to some what happens as you increase Wattage delivered to X-sensitivity Speaker@1m... even at the cost of entering it longhand.

You've demonstrated before a predilection for mathematical understanding beyond the lay-person. But in terms of intelligent problem solving, one should also accept that not everybody WANTS to handle anything more complex than a plug and play system, or... a plug and play internet calculator.

Now... if we could find an easy way to get enthusiasts turned on to learning these things... That would be astounding!

 

[AVUser001]

I dont disagree with you guys .., but the fact is that , most people are being redirected to that incomplete online calculator , that will yield wrong results, if not done right or accompanied with appropriate instructions , to handle different speaker impedence or headroom , RMS/Peak etc..

The crownaudio calculator I linked earlier is not anymore complicated than the homestead - there's no need to understand any complex mathematical formule here.

Excel I undertstand, is the issue here..in which case let people choose the calculator to their comfort level.. Maybe myhometheater-homestead guy can add in those critical fields - maybe thats the answer .., I dont care either way.

Anyways, like I said..this was a pet peeve of mine, that I had to get it out on the forum..,as part of the rant in the other thread with PENG,TLSGuy etc.. Maybe its my background (Engineering, IT Architecture) ..;-)

There's one more thats irking ..about room acoustics..,maybe some other time ;-)

 

[ryanosaur]

There's one more thats irking ..about room acoustics

There's a lot that's irking about room acoustics!

 

[lovinthehd]

Sometimes there are cautions given when specific speaker specs are known. I try not to use language that indicates a specific answer but rather to get an idea of power needed and how the relationship works. I wonder if the author of the Homestead calculator is even around for a modification let alone implementing one. I have used the Crown one as I usually disregard the boundary reinforcement info anyways but I think the Homestead one has some good accompanying info (does the Crown offer info on how to treat 1w/1m spec instead of 2.83V?). You can easily add your own headroom, and many newbs are going to need some definitions, too. Overall YMMV. It's very easy to search for spl calculator and play with a couple, too.

 

[PENG]

Got ya.., am not familiar with Cell viewer.. Is that just a read-only viewer (ie one that cant do calculations like Excel) ?

Or else, in excel, you just enter the values (couple more critical inputs than homestead) and it spits out the RMS & Peak power required..in green fields

View attachment 35369


Hey , I tried .. Both Impedence and Headroom for peaks , are such important factors , are not readily visible/factored in that homestead one - just troubles me !

I am surprised you are troubled, now you know why I ranted about the use of "watts" instead of voltage and current. Wouldn't it be slightly better if people ask how much current do I read for my speakers in my room sitting 10 ft to get reference level for my 4 ohm speakers?

Now, may be I can help you feel a little better.. That calculator did say the following right in the beginning, a newbie, would likely read it before entering data.

Peak SPL Calculator

"5. Speaker placement. You may account for "room gain", that is sound reflected from the walls that "reinforces" the sound coming directly from your speakers, by selecting the box that describes your speaker placement. This effect is most prominent at low (bass) frequencies and accounts for why subwoofers often sound louder when placed in a corner. This is an optional selection. If you do not have a subwoofer, or full range speakers with good bass extension close to the walls or corners; you will get a more accurate number by leaving the default.

This calculator does not account for room acoustics, amplifier dynamic headroom or off axis listening positions."

So I guess it assumed the user will determine how much headroom they need and factor that in to the calculated result, that's not a bad way.

The Acoustic Frontier calculator also requires user inputs and in a few ways it will confuse a lot of, if not most users. In the end I doubt it will get most users more accurate results and any of those calculators are only useful in terms of providing the users some rough ideas, basically get you in the ball park.

If someone knows enough to enter 20 dB into the Frontier calculator, he/she would likely know what to do with the homestead calculator. Keep in mind we are comparing a spl calculator to a "power requirement" calculator too so they need to be used accordingly, sort of in reverse..

 

[AVUser001]

So I guess it assumed the user will determine how much headroom they need and factor that in to the calculated result, that's not a bad way.

The Acoustic Frontier calculator also requires user inputs and in a few ways it will confuse a lot of, if not most users. In the end I doubt it will get most users more accurate results and any of those calculators are only useful in terms of providing the users some rough ideas, basically get you in the ball park.

If someone knows enough to enter 20 dB into the Frontier calculator, he/she would likely know what to do with the homestead calculator. Keep in mind we are comparing a spl calculator to a "power requirement" calculator too so they need to be used accordingly, sort of in reverse..

You just reiterated what I said earlier.... we have taken a SPL calculator (homestead) and trying to use it in reverse to derive power requirement, which is actually more confusing.

Both requires user inputs...

The AF, Crown calculators work directly, spitting out power for a given SPL, which is exactly what we need. So in essence, the homestead calcluator is more confusing to everyone...thats why I am really surprised when I hear the AF calculator is confusing !!

and If someone is able to measure their SPL from their MLP , gets the Sensitivity of the speaker from the specs and are able to enter them into the homestead calculator , I really dont understand , how it can be more technically more challenging/complex , to enter the impedence of the speaker from the specs and additional headroom , into a couple of fields...to get the power in one shot . ..instead of a manual trial/error process with homestead.

The difference is AF makes it more explicit.., accounts for all use-cases and gets correct power requirements in a single shot with minimal user trial&error process..as opposed to the homestead, which is not designed for such power calculation in the first place..., is incomplete and can lead to plain wrong results, if not applied correctly and asks end-user to follow a trial&error process.

The only drawback with AF is its Excel based..something most PC/MAC users should be familiar with and there are some opensource(free) alternatives to MS excel as well.

 

[PENG]

I need to let out a pet peeve , on the Power calculator, often referred to by many of our AH members..,when someone asks in the forum , what kinda amp or AVR is suitable for my speaker for my room or how much power do I need to drive a speaker etc..Often they get pointed to this Peak SPL Calculator .

As the link indicates clearly it is a "Peak SPL Calculator". It get linked often, may be because it was recognized as one that is easy to use, cover the important factors and that most users would learn the trick quickly how to use it as a "Peak Power requirement" calculator. Yes for most, the trick would be to simply use the "trial and error" method, start by entering something like 1, 10, or 100 W, while some may quickly realize every time he/she enters 1/2 or 2 times the "Watts", the calculated SPL will change by - or + 3 dB accordingly, so it gets interesting and easy..

1st gap:

To get the required amp power, for a given SPL, you need to keep trying different Watts as input, until you hit the required SPL . The quickest and right way to do this would be to punch in your required SPL and the calculator to spit out the required power ... not the other way around like this calculator does!
There's no way to input the average SPL !

As I mentioned above, this is a peak SPL calculator. It gets used as a power requirement calculator because it can adapted for such use so quickly and easily. It seems intuitive enough that I do not recall anyone posting back and ask "hey it calculates spl, not power requirement, so can you link another one that calculates power?"
It is not fair to call this a "Gap" at all.

2nd gap:

This calculator implicitly assumes 8 Ohms speaker! What do you do , when your speaker has a 4 ohm nominal impedence ? An inexperienced person may not even realize this and just use the Watts as it is...leading to a gross mistake in power requirement.
To get the right Watts, for a 4 Ohm speaker, you'd have to double the amp power from this calculator
OR
derate the speaker sensitivity by 3 dB to get the watts, at the same implied 8 ohms

This is a valid point, it was discussed quite in depth many times in the past on this forum, below is just one example. I believe I have even posted a table to make adjustments to either the results or the sensitivity inputs in order to help alleviate such concern. It's a long thread but you may find post#78 to post#88 most relevant.

Watts per channel needed??

Try this http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm That is my favorite site for calculators. I have yet to one single error in their posted formulae.

forums.audioholics.com

3rd gap:
No place to input headroom required to account for peaks in SPL.
You'd have to manually keep adjusting the Amp power ,until you hit your desired headroom (say +20 db)

Yes, would agree that is a gap albeit a minor one, as it tells you that right from the beginning, so a reasonably observant user would know that and make allowance according to suit his/her needs.

4th gap:
Doesnt clearly distinguish equivalent RMS Watts and Peak Watts. Again can mislead people, where they can unwantedly double the power again , to get the peak!

I have to disagree, as I posted earlier, it tells you right from the beginning too. It says:

2. The amplifier rated power per channel, expressed in watts. The calculated SPL will be RMS if amplifier power is RMS (what does this mean?)

They did make the same technical error like the others. That is, there is not such thing as RMS power and the "what does this mean" hyperlink is really bad in my book as it would almost certainly misled people to believe the relation between the non existent RMS power to Peak power is the same as RMS Voltage (or current) to Peak Voltage when in fact it would be dead wrong and it is so obvious because the RMS Power term (if recognized mathematically) has no practical meaning.

There are better Amp power calculators out there...that addresses the above gaps . Maybe we should redirect people to these calculators instead ...

That is subjective, so I won't dispute that, but I would not redirect people to the Frontiers. In fact I probably have done so long time ago. I downloaded it several years ago, stared at it, tried it and decided it wasn't something that I would use or recommend to others. It might have given me the idea to do one myself using a spreadsheet. I actually mentioned it to RichB in 2018 for a specific reason (see post#49)

 

[Pogre]

I'm looking at the one on the Crown site and I like it a lot more than AF. At least I can fill in the fields and get results. Again tho, I can see it confusing a newbie. A lot of folks that come here have no clue what a reference level is, understand headroom or speaker sensitivity.

I'd say it's an alternative for the more technically minded. Some folks will get more from it than others. You can usually get a feel for where someone's at within a couple of posts.

Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers | English (US)

www.crownaudio.com

*Edit: This new AV is making it harder for me to find my posts when scrolling through a thread now, lol...

 

[PENG]

The only drawback with AF is its Excel based..something most PC/MAC users should be familiar with and there are some opensource(free) alternatives to MS excel as well.

May I suggest you add a poll to find out which one is more likely to confuse the user (make it clear that no EE and/or audio experts allowed).

There are quite a few things I dislike the Frontiers one, but let me just use one that you should be able to relate to, as you seem to feel it has solved the potential issue with the impedance factor.

Say a new proud Monitor Audio gold owner came to ask how much power he needs. The speaker specs may say:

Sensitivity (1W@1M)
90 dB
Nominal Impedance
4 Ohms

So what do you think the user (assume a "newbie") would enter into the "Speaker Efficiency" and "Speaker Nominal DC Resistance" fields?

And, just by the way, both "" terms are "iffy" just to be generous. You obviously know that but you seem lenient with them (yet not so with the homestead..) With due respect, I do see you point and may even understand why the homestead one "troubles" you but I do urge you to be fair, be more even handed with your criticisms. I am harsh with the misused terms too, but I did highlight the fact that those were "technical" errors that homestead also made.

 

[PENG]

I'm looking at the one on the Crown site and I like it a lot more than AF. At least I can fill in the fields and get results. Again tho, I can see it confusing a newbie. A lot of folks that come here have no clue what a reference level is, headroom or speaker sensitivity.

I'd say it's an alternative for the more technically minded. Some folks will get more from it than others. You can usually get a feel for where someone's at within a couple of posts.

Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers | English (US)

www.crownaudio.com

*Edit: This new AV is making it harder for me to find my posts when scrolling through a thread now, lol...

Agreed, Crown's is a good one. I would say if we link the homestead and the receiving end comes back puzzled/confused by it, then we can link the Crown one and remind them that the calculated results would be on the conservative side if they have 8 ohm speakers because they would be helped by some room gain. Conversely if their speakers are 4 ohm then they need to tell us whether the sensitivity spec is based on 2.83 V or 1 W.

Nothing is perfect!! All we can do is to recommend something that is relatively easy to use and cover as many key factors as possible