Coronavirus

[KEW]

You guys believe in Intelligent Design? Really?

Evolution always impressed me as being a fairly intelligent, self-regulating design, and I'd guess frontal lobes have proven to earn their keep (at least for the comparatively short term)!

 

[ryanosaur]

Evolution always impressed me as being a fairly intelligent, self-regulating design, and I'd guess frontal lobes have proven to earn their keep (at least for the comparatively short term)!

Until lack of adequate drainage does the lot of us in.

 

[TLS Guy]

Agreed.



Really, Mark, you should control your emotions. While I'm not in favor of propping up *any* companies, politicians are probably going to do it as a jobs program. Fortunately it looks like they may be smarter about it than they were in 2008.

There are ten major US domestic airlines, not counting regional airlines. Your notion that we need only one airline sounds foolish. And that's just domestic airlines. Many, many of my friends have family around the world, and while there may be a pause in international air travel, there's no way in the long term that these folks are going to forsake their families. And what are their alternatives? Cruise ships? Get real. Solutions for safe flying will be found; solutions are always found when there's high demand.

Even if COVID19 kills off 10% of the world's population, people are going to go back to flying. Probably within this year.

In case you weren't watching, some airlines are restarting flights just for freight purposes. That trend is probably going in increase for a little while, not decrease. Globalization for manufacturing is not going away anytime soon. Globalization took years to build up, and it'll take many years to replace, even if we attempt it. I doubt it will be attempted at all, except perhaps for drug manufacturing. It won't surprise me if Congress gets nervous about being so dependent on China for drug ingredients. For electronic components? Very doubtful.

Domestically, I intend to go back to flying as soon as this emergency subsides. Most people I know feel this way. We have four children in three cities on two coasts, and I'm not going to give up seeing them for much longer, and driving is dangerous and tiresome for thousands of miles. Trains are worse than planes.

As for Boeing, do you really know anything about Boeing? Just for starters, they're a major defense contractor. Like $26B in annual revenue last year, more this year. Their commercial aviation division is bigger and more screwed up, the 737 MAX situation is one of the great stories of incompetence in US commercial history, but I doubt Boeing is going broke. Some of their suppliers may be in trouble, but that's a more manageable problem.

Sorry Irv, but that is wishful thinking. The public and policy makers do not understand the evolution of infectious agents, which is rapid and will speed up. The evolution of the corona family of viruses is such a case in point. This virus has come from SARS and MERS. The basic problem with this family of viruses is that they seem to be becoming more of a menace quickly.

The problem is animal to human transmission which a very worrying feature of this virus family.

The fact is that in SE Asia and some other parts of the world people live with a variety of animals. In addition they eat a wide variety of strange critters.

This is a fact not racism. If they do not quickly mend their ways and fast we CAN NOT do business with them. We need to verify they have mended their ways.

In addition it is just stupid to have so much manufacture concentrated in one part of the globe. That is just dumb.

I suspect that free well regulated societies will produce better quality products in any event.

Big chances do need to be made and soon. That means not doing with countries that have a president for life and politburos.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Sorry Irv, but that is wishful thinking. The public and policy makers do not understand the evolution of infectious agents, which is rapid and will speed up. The evolution of the corona family of viruses is such a case in point. This virus has come from SARS and MERS. The basic problem with this family of viruses is that they seem to be becoming more of a menace quickly.

The problem is animal to human transmission which a very worrying feature of this virus family.

The fact is that in SE Asia and some other parts of the world people live with a variety of animals. In addition they eat a wide variety of strange critters.

This is a fact not racism. If they do not quickly mend their ways and fast we CAN NOT do business with them. We need to verify they have mended their ways.

In addition it is just stupid to have so much manufacture concentrated in one part of the globe. That is just dumb.

I suspect that free well regulated societies will produce better quality products in any event.

Big chances do need to be made and soon. That means not doing with countries that have a president for life and politburos.

I don't know what world you live in, Mark, but the real world is unlikely to reflect your altruism. I am not a fan of the cut-throat globalism we have today either, but it is beyond wishful thinking and well into fantasy that this is going to change appreciably in the next 10 years. Certainly not to the extent you wish it. Perhaps automation will change things in twenty years, but a lot of manufacturing is in Asia because people in North America and Europe won't tolerate the pollution from the chemical processes necessary to produce much of what we consume. I doubt that will change much in twenty years either.

And assuming we have to live with the threat of future viruses, and I assume we will, exascale supercomputing is going to change everything about anti-viral research. From what I'm seeing published recently it already has. My view: nothing beats technology and innovation, not even viruses.

 

[Danzilla31]

Sorry Irv, but that is wishful thinking. The public and policy makers do not understand the evolution of infectious agents, which is rapid and will speed up. The evolution of the corona family of viruses is such a case in point. This virus has come from SARS and MERS. The basic problem with this family of viruses is that they seem to be becoming more of a menace quickly.

The problem is animal to human transmission which a very worrying feature of this virus family.

The fact is that in SE Asia and some other parts of the world people live with a variety of animals. In addition they eat a wide variety of strange critters.

This is a fact not racism. If they do not quickly mend their ways and fast we CAN NOT do business with them. We need to verify they have mended their ways.

In addition it is just stupid to have so much manufacture concentrated in one part of the globe. That is just dumb.

I suspect that free well regulated societies will produce better quality products in any event.

Big chances do need to be made and soon. That means not doing with countries that have a president for life and politburos.

The bottom line is that just like some of the former viruses in this family you mentioned this is still a warning shot

This virus is very infectious but it thank God is not as deadly as some in the past have been

Even with the toll it's taking if it was deadlier this could have been a helluva lot worse

We're getting one more warning a much more serious warning from mother nature to get a grip and make some changes

Or the next that will evolve could be just catastrophic

But I'm with Irv here on this own I think we need to be careful how we decide to make those changes

First we have to get through this and then once things have calmed down a bit were probably all going to hopefully be more rationally able to make the best steps going forward

Saying the world is going to change yes I think your right

How it's going to change let's not go off to half cocked just yet

Like the man said in the article you posted let's handle this like a grandmaster in chess with 10 to 15 moves ahead of the game

Not like we're playing checkers with our youngest child I really liked the way he put that

 

[Danzilla31]

[IQUOTE="Irvrobinson, post: 1378334, member: 6847"]
but in the real world is unlikely to reflect your altruism. I am not a fan of the cut-throat globalism we have today either, but it is beyond wishful thinking and well into fantasy that this is going to change appreciably in the next 10 years. Certainly not to the extent you wish it. Perhaps automation will change things in twenty years, but a lot of manufacturing is in Asia because people in North America and Europe won't tolerate the pollution from the chemical processes necessary to produce much of what we consume. I doubt that will change much in twenty years either.

I really want to thank you for a lot of your level headed responses in this thread

I know it's been helpful to me and others for sure

We need to have many different viewpoints and perspectives to provide checks and balances as we all dialogue on this

And I just appreciate your well thought out responses it's been helpful thank you

 

[Danzilla31]

I don't know why my post didn't correctly reply to you Irv sorry about that

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't know why my post didn't correctly reply to you Irv sorry about that

Because you're missing an [/quote] command.

 

[Swerd]

Evolution always impressed me as being a fairly intelligent, self-regulating design, and I'd guess frontal lobes have proven to earn their keep (at least for the comparatively short term)!

Evolution is persistent and will eventually lead to an improved result.

 

[Danzilla31]

Because you're missing an

command.
[/QUOTE]
Hey if that's the only thing that's missing for me as I'm getting older I'll take it

 

[mtrycrafts]

Until lack of adequate drainage does the lot of us in.

Maybe it was designed to control populations?

 

[panteragstk]

Maybe it was designed to control populations?

..it isn't working well enough

 

[mtrycrafts]

..it isn't working well enough

You mean it is not very selective?

 

[GO-NAD!]

I am not an expert on Boeing. I did have (for me) a large position in their stock for awhile, which means I did some research, but I never worked for them, so I don't have an insider's view. (When the details of the 737 MAX problem and the background was revealed, I sold everything, as I lost trust in their ability to execute. I sold at about $380, and was pissed that I missed selling at the all-time high of $440, but now that it's trading at $95 I'm more satisfied with my decision, ahem.)

Boeing's commercial aircraft development owes very little to the military. The military does buy some commercial aircraft for their own use, but as a percentage of total commercial aircraft sales it's pretty small. There is the case of the KC-46 tanker, which is based on the ancient 767 airframe, but that was a case of the commercial division subsidizing the defense devision, not the other way around.

(As an editorial aside, the KC-46 is another fiasco, but in this case Congress, the DoD, and Boeing conspired to make sure Boeing rather than Airbus, who appeared to have a superior solution, won the bid.)

Boeing's commercial division is more profitable than Airbus's because between the 777 and the 787 Boeing sold more wide body aircraft than Airbus does. Wide body aircraft have higher gross margins than smaller aircraft. And Airbus made a very unprofitable bet with the A380. If Mark is correct about international travel being permanently suppressed due to COVID19 then the tables may turn, because Airbus's narrow body planes are more successful than Boeing's.

Both of these commercial aircraft manufacturers are highly subsidized, but not by defense contracts. They provide numerous lucrative jobs in their manufacturing plants, so federal, state, and local governments (and their international equivalents) provide rich subsidies on their own.

Redirect Notice

From the article:
""The truth is anybody who's in aerospace receives some type of subsidy, and certainly Boeing is no exception to that," said Darryl Jenkins, chairman of the American Aviation Institute, an independent think tank focusing on the commercial aviation industry."

Boeing may have been profitable- up to the 737 Max fiasco - but much of that profit is from tax breaks, which are subsidies. And, what I mean by subsidies by the military division is that the US government pays inflated prices on military contracts. Don't get me wrong - I'm not singling Boeing out. They all benefit from subsidies, in various manners. I just linked one article about it. There are plenty.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Redirect Notice

From the article:
""The truth is anybody who's in aerospace receives some type of subsidy, and certainly Boeing is no exception to that," said Darryl Jenkins, chairman of the American Aviation Institute, an independent think tank focusing on the commercial aviation industry."

Boeing may have been profitable- up to the 737 Max fiasco - but much of that profit is from tax breaks, which are subsidies. And, what I mean by subsidies by the military division is that the US government pays inflated prices on military contracts. Don't get me wrong - I'm not singling Boeing out. They all benefit from subsidies, in various manners. I just linked one article about it. There are plenty.

I can't speak to how much the DoD is over or under-paying on government contracts. If you look at the PDF I linked to, Boeing's 2019 defense margins are lower than their 2018 commercial aircraft margins. Personally, I don't pay any attention to the press about complex issues like defense spending unless they employ experts to do the analysis. Defense projects are different; the DoD is always looking for leading edge improvements for battle-worthy competitiveness, and I don't know how to assess who is at fault for what. What we can agree on is that Boeing gets numerous tax breaks from states and localities for putting their plants in their locations in the US. And so does Intel, Samsung, Micron, GM, Tesla, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Airbus, and frankly every major manufacturer I can think of. Personally, I think these breaks represent a distortion in the market and should be illegal, but every city, county, and state in the US does it willingly.

So I think we're in agreement. We're just quibbling about details.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Hopefully they get production geared up soon and it proves to be effective.

>>>Gilead Sciences Inc said on Sunday it was temporarily putting new emergency access to its experimental coronavirus drug remdesivir on hold due to overwhelming demand and that it wanted most people receiving the drug to participate in a clinical trial to prove if it is safe and effective.<<<

Gilead puts emergency access to experimental coronavirus drug on hold amid surging demand

Gilead Sciences Inc said on Sunday it was temporarily putting new emergency access to its experimental coronavirus drug remdesivir on hold due to overwhelming demand and that it wanted most people receiving the drug to participate in a clinical trial to prove if it is safe...

www.reuters.com

 

[TLS Guy]

Trump is now a clear and present danger to the United States and is now confirmed as the IDIOT IN CHIEF.

WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!

 

[Irvrobinson]

Trump is now a clear and present danger to the United States and is now confirmed as the IDIOT IN CHIEF.

WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!

Unfortunately, I know people who agree with him.

 

[herbu]

Who is laughing?
Where do you see this?
Because I don't!

Just go up a few pages in this thread. I'm sure these idiots will say it's just joking. I'm fine with that, as long as the door swings both ways. But I can't help wonder if the moderators, (and some readers), would allow me to joke about how funny it would be to see BHO's wife and girls taken out by this virus.

 

[herbu]

Maybe that will end his hoax paranoia, or not.

And if it would take out Pelosi and Schumer, perhaps we could get relief to the people.