In-wall rear surround recommendations

[ryanosaur]

I read about the subwoofer crawl the other day, and I do plan on doing that. I need to get a longer sub cable first!

It took me a while when I first did it to understand what I was looking for (hearing, that is)... I tried single continuous test tones, rhythmic test tones, pink noise and music. Music worked best for me as the test material. After that, what helped me get accustomed to hearing the changes was moving in and out of a corner. Corners will amplify the LF waves, and in my case, they also made it boomy and muddy. Moving back and forth along that wall and in and out of the corner taught me the differences I needed to be looking for.
Once I got comfortable with that, I was able to do the perimeter of my room pretty easily. In the process I found a spot on my back wall that was a complete null, where all the bass just disappeared.
It will open your eyes to ideal placements. Of course, whether you allow yourself to put the sub in such a location is up to you! But with a single sub, especially, you want to find a spot where the bass response at you LP is the best it can be.
Cheers!

 

[mossman77]

Lol. Both!

The XO sends redirected bass from the mains in this case below 100 and from the cc, below 80. I personally don’t like higher than 80 or 90. While the bass can be fuller that way, it intrudes on my mains so...

Ah yes, that makes complete sense

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It took me a while when I first did it to understand what I was looking for (hearing, that is)... I tried single continuous test tones, rhythmic test tones, pink noise and music. Music worked best for me as the test material. After that, what helped me get accustomed to hearing the changes was moving in and out of a corner. Corners will amplify the LF waves, and in my case, they also made it boomy and muddy. Moving back and forth along that wall and in and out of the corner taught me the differences I needed to be looking for.
Once I got comfortable with that, I was able to do the perimeter of my room pretty easily. In the process I found a spot on my back wall that was a complete null, where all the bass just disappeared.
It will open your eyes to ideal placements. Of course, whether you allow yourself to put the sub in such a location is up to you! But with a single sub, especially, you want to find a spot where the bass response at you LP is the best it can be.
Cheers!

To add to my buddy runodyno’s post, make sure audyssey is OFF!!! Any correction curve that’s active will render your experiment useless.

 

[mossman77]

To add to my buddy runodyno’s post, make sure audyssey is OFF!!! Any correction curve that’s active will render your experiment useless.

Yes, I will be sure it is off when doing the crawl test. Thanks for the reminder.

How valuable would damping control be in my situation? The MK2 and E15/FP15 both have adjustable Q whereas the HT1508 does not. Additionally, the E15/FP15 have low-end frequency control as well. BTW, the FP15 is only 2" wider and width isn't really a concern, and it has 2dB more output for about the same price.

 

[ryanosaur]

To add to my buddy runodyno’s post, make sure audyssey is OFF!!! Any correction curve that’s active will render your experiment useless.

Audyssey is off, and no other speakers are playing.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Audyssey is off, and no other speakers are playing.

Did I miss that you wrote that? Thread is moving fairly quick so sorry if I missed. Also, I’m multitasking.....Lol

 

[ryanosaur]

Did I miss that you wrote that?

Nope... it was a good add on. 'Why I added the reminder about no speakers, too.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Nope... it was a good add on. 'Why I added the reminder about no speakers, too.

Roger that!!!

 

[Pogre]

Both of those reminders are good ones tho. I've done Audyssey calibrations forgetting to bypass the previous settings on my Mini and had to completely start over again.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Both of those reminders are good ones tho. I've done Audyssey calibrations forgetting to bypass the previous settings on my Mini and had to completely start over again.

Oh yeah!!! Been there done that... that’s a dikk punch for sure.

 

[mossman77]

REL HT/1508 Predator ($1,499)
HSU ULS-15 MK2 ($860)
Rythmik FP15 ($1,282)

Before I pull the trigger and try one of these out (thinking FP15 unless advised otherwise), will a 15" sealed sub be just as tight/accurate/precise and blend as well with my mains (dual 4.5" drivers) as a comparable 12" sealed sub? One way to find out I suppose.

Think this may have been missed...

How valuable would damping control be in my situation? The MK2 and E15/FP15 both have adjustable Q whereas the HT1508 does not. Additionally, the E15/FP15 have low-end frequency control as well. BTW, the FP15 is only 2" wider and width isn't really a concern, and it has 2dB more output for about the same price.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Before I pull the trigger and try one of these out (thinking FP15 unless advised otherwise), will a 15" sealed sub be just as tight/accurate/precise and blend as well with my mains (dual 4.5" drivers) as a comparable 12" sealed sub? One way to find out I suppose.

Think this may have been missed...

How valuable would damping control be in my situation? The MK2 and E15/FP15 both have adjustable Q whereas the HT1508 does not. Additionally, the E15/FP15 have low-end frequency control as well. BTW, the FP15 is only 2" wider and width isn't really a concern, and it has 2dB more output for about the same price.

I’ve noticed you’ve made correlations to driver size before. This is not necessary. Speaker performance largely comes from T/S parameters of the driver, enclosure volume and overall sensitivity. Also tight/accurate/precise is no more a function of sealed than it is ported. It’s all about the subs design, and integration into the system/room. The only advantage sealed has is size. I think damping control could have potential in your room with that creaky floor.

 

[ryanosaur]

Before I pull the trigger and try one of these out (thinking FP15 unless advised otherwise), will a 15" sealed sub be just as tight/accurate/precise and blend as well with my mains (dual 4.5" drivers) as a comparable 12" sealed sub? One way to find out I suppose.

Think this may have been missed...

How valuable would damping control be in my situation? The MK2 and E15/FP15 both have adjustable Q whereas the HT1508 does not. Additionally, the E15/FP15 have low-end frequency control as well. BTW, the FP15 is only 2" wider and width isn't really a concern, and it has 2dB more output for about the same price.

F15HP?

 

[mossman77]

F15HP?

Rythmik Audio • 15" 600WRMS servo subwoofer F15HP

 

[ryanosaur]

I’ve noticed you’ve made correlations to driver size before. This is not necessary. Speaker performance largely comes from T/S parameters of the driver, enclosure volume and overall sensitivity. Also tight/accurate/precise is no more a function of sealed than it is ported. It’s all about the subs design, and integration into the system/room. The only advantage sealed has is size.

This!

 

[ryanosaur]

This!

...And the fact that in a total room volume under ~3000'3, you get cabin gain. That will not apply in Large or Extreme room sizes.

 

[mossman77]

...And the fact that in a total room volume under ~3000'3, you get cabin gain. That will not apply in Large or Extreme room sizes.

My room is >5,500 cu ft.

 

[Pogre]

Before I pull the trigger and try one of these out (thinking FP15 unless advised otherwise), will a 15" sealed sub be just as tight/accurate/precise and blend as well with my mains (dual 4.5" drivers) as a comparable 12" sealed sub? One way to find out I suppose.

Think this may have been missed...

How valuable would damping control be in my situation? The MK2 and E15/FP15 both have adjustable Q whereas the HT1508 does not. Additionally, the E15/FP15 have low-end frequency control as well. BTW, the FP15 is only 2" wider and width isn't really a concern, and it has 2dB more output for about the same price.

On my phone right now so not much chance to do any Googling, but I like Hsu for the price. I don't know if you get that much performance from any of the others that would justify the jump in price, but I haven't heard them either so take that with a grain of salt.

Like Bill said too, its implementation more than driver size that counts when it comes to accuracy or sounding tighter. You are very closely mirroring the same comments I made before I pulled the trigger and got my dual VTF-3 MK5s. I was running a pair of SVS SB 1000s and had the same concerns you do.

There's just no comparison. The best word I used to describe it would be effortless. Effortless and very clean. Music has more weight and presence now without boom.

 

[mossman77]

On my phone right now so not much chance to do any Googling, but I like Hsu for the price. I don't know if you get that much performance from any of the others that would justify the jump in price, but I haven't heard them either so take that with a grain of salt.

Like Bill said too, its implementation more than driver size that counts when it comes to accuracy or sounding tighter. You are very closely mirroring the same comments I made before I pulled the trigger and got my dual VTF-3 MK5s. I was running a pair of SVS SB 1000s and had the same concerns you do.

There's just no comparison. The best word I used to describe it would be effortless. Effortless and very clean.

Crap, okay. Well, Rythmik has several 12" sealed options that sound appealing. Maybe I'll give the F12G-SE a try. Or if you guys don't think it will sound much different than an SVS SB-3000, then I suppose it makes more sense to just trade up with SVS. All with the possibility of potentially getting a second sub in the future if I find no other way around it. Price difference is only $100 and I like that the Rythmik comes in gloss white. The direct servo feedback on the F12G-SE is an interesting feature. Not sure how the SB-3000's smart app compares, but I prefer switches/knobs over using smartphone apps to adjust things.

 

[Pogre]

Crap, okay. Well, Rythmik has several 12" sealed options that sound appealing. Maybe I'll give the F12G-SE a try. Or if you guys don't think it will sound much different than an SVS SB-3000, then I suppose it makes more sense to just trade up with SVS. All with the possibility of potentially getting a second sub in the future if I find no other way around it. Price difference is only $100 and I like that the Rythmik comes in gloss white. The direct servo feedback and adjustable Q are also interesting features. Not sure how the SB-3000's smart app with parametric EQ adjustment compares.

You just took a left turn on me again! Lol