In-wall rear surround recommendations

[mossman77]

I guess I need to determine if distortion and/or response is the cause of the localization or if the level of bass I want is causing the localization due to the simple fact that I am turning the gain up so high. I kind of doubt it is a distortion or a response issue since SVS makes good subs and I'm not pushing it anywhere near it's limit. I could try connecting the two different subs temporarily as well just to see what it sounds like.

 

[mossman77]

Yeah, in a space that big the small boost in performance from the PB1000 is pretty negligible. At least the PC2000. Or something with similar performance. I like PC for him due to the size constraints though. It's a great sub for that. I'll eat my hat if that single SB1000 is properly pressurising that room.

This is a classic case of not knowing what you're missing. I was in the same boat at one time myself with a pair of SB1000s. Utterly convinced that my bass needs were more than taken care of. Boy did I get my eyes opened, lol.

I hear ya. Unfortunately, experimenting with different subs isn't exactly a convenient thing to do, although possible.

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah, in a space that big the small boost in performance from the PB1000 is pretty negligible. At least the PC2000. Or something with similar performance. I like PC for him due to the size constraints though. It's a great sub for that. I'll eat my hat if that single SB1000 is properly pressurising that room.

This is a classic case of not knowing what you're missing. I was in the same boat at one time myself with a pair of SB1000s. Utterly convinced that my bass needs were more than taken care of. Boy did I get my eyes opened, lol.

Ya I don’t want to exceed anyone’s budget but I guess it’s ok to be blunt and say “get as much subwoofer as you can afford”. LOL

 

[ryanosaur]

On the run... but this is too good of a point!
If you wanted to try, talk to SVS about the trade up policy, order a PC2000 to compare against the SB1000, and then you can upgrade for the difference or return the PC2000 at no loss. ...45 day in-home audition!

 

[mossman77]

SVS says I can trade in my SB-1000 for $435, so not too bad.

I'd have to pay return shipping on that beast though wouldn't I? Guess I wouldn't be throwing $50 out the window from the knowledge I gain though, so it would be worth it. That thing is pretty beefy, but I have a corner where I could put it and conceal it with a plant or something. No offense to anyone that owns one, but it kind of looks like a HEPA filter/air cleaner. Not really a bad thing, but it isn't small by any means.

 

[mossman77]

Just to reiterate, it really is enough bass. The issue is localization at the higher gain levels I like with some source content. The goal is to get equivalent SPL without the localization. If that's one more powerful sub, then I'm fine with that as long as the footprint isn't too large. Another appeal with two SB1000 is the smaller footprint and they come in white, which would blend in nicely. Despite that, I like the idea of one sub and think I could live with the PC2000 tucked in the corner. I could wrap the PC2000 in carpet to match my floor

I'm guessing the down-firing design of the PC2000 also help with localization?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You could also try lowering the XO, but off hand I don’t know the extension capabilities of the Def techs. That could alleviate some localization, but I couldn’t guarantee that as a whole it would improve. Also, if you’re really in love with sealed, the sb2k is a much better subwoofer than the 1000 is, but I’m still a believer in ported subwoofers overall.

As for the Klipsch, I wouldn’t use that at all. Especially to gage how an SVS ported sub will act. They’re just too different. You might find some valuable information by trying it out, but just stay clear about the fact that the Klipsch will sound boomy and not as articulate as the pb1000, and especially the pc2k.

Also, IMO the downfiring PC’s don’t really affect localization at all.

 

[Pogre]

SVS says I can trade in my SB-1000 for $435, so not too bad.

I'd have to pay return shipping on that beast though wouldn't I? Guess I wouldn't be throwing $50 out the window from the knowledge I gain though, so it would be worth it. That thing is pretty beefy, but I have a corner where I could put it and conceal it with a plant or something. No offense to anyone that owns one, but it kind of looks like a HEPA filter/air cleaner. Not really a bad thing, but it isn't small by any means.

I'm pretty sure they'll pay for the shipping. Might wanna check with them and be sure, but SVS has unparalleled customer service.

 

[Pogre]

Just to reiterate, it really is enough bass. The issue is localization at the higher gain levels I like with some source content. The goal is to get equivalent SPL without the localization. If that's one more powerful sub, then I'm fine with that as long as the footprint isn't too large. Another appeal with two SB1000 is the smaller footprint and they come in white, which would blend in nicely. Despite that, I like the idea of one sub and think I could live with the PC2000 tucked in the corner. I could wrap the PC2000 in carpet to match my floor

I'm guessing the down-firing design of the PC2000 also help with localization?

Just to reiterate, if you've never truly heard good, effortless, clean bass you don't know what you're missing. Subwoofer Distortion is a lot more subtle than you get with regular speakers.

 

[mossman77]

Just chatted with SVS and the rep agrees the SB1000 isn't enough for my space. He said although it may sound loud enough, the localization issue proves it is not powerful enough and that the entire room needs to be pressurized to avoid localization. He recommended going with at least two of the PC-2000. Even recommended the SB-16 Ultra, but that thing is simply too large and expensive. I don't have the space for two of the PC-2000, so maybe I'll try one. SVS said even that would be better than two of the SB1000.

 

[mossman77]

I'm pretty sure they'll pay for the shipping. Might wanna check with them and be sure, but SVS has unparalleled customer service.

They sent me a quote and am charging me for shipping both ways. $35 to return my SB-1000 and $35 to receive the PC-2000 or whichever sub I choose. Still haven't entirely made up my mind. The PC-2000 is a beast.

 

[mossman77]

I touched on this briefly in an earlier post, but forget if someone addressed this...if the SB1000 truly is inadequate for my space, then why does Audyssey indicated otherwise? Audyssey says if after running room correction the sub gain is set too high, the sub is undersized. However, Audyssey sets the gain of my sub to a slightly negative number if I recall correctly.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I touched on this briefly in an earlier post, but forget if someone addressed this...if the SB1000 truly is inadequate for my space, then why does Audyssey indicated otherwise? Audyssey says if after running room correction the sub gain is set too high, the sub is undersized. However, Audyssey sets the gain of my sub to a slightly negative number if I recall correctly.

Hard to say. Audyssey might be trying to deal with a peak. Being up against the wall is hard to deal with. Trim levels should be in the negative for subwoofers.

 

[Pogre]

I touched on this briefly in an earlier post, but forget if someone addressed this...if the SB1000 truly is inadequate for my space, then why does Audyssey indicated otherwise? Audyssey says if after running room correction the sub gain is set too high, the sub is undersized. However, Audyssey sets the gain of my sub to a slightly negative number if I recall correctly.

Well, everyone here as well as the good folks at SVS all told you almost exactly the same thing, independent of each other, so...

It might be hitting a certain volume level at the mic, but the room isn't getting pressurized and it's forcing that little sub to work a lot harder than it wants to.

 

[Pogre]

Hard to say. Audyssey might be trying to deal with a peak. Being up against the wall is hard to deal with. Trim levels should be in the negative for subwoofers.

I wonder if Audyssey picks up on any distortion and recommends lower levels? I have no clue, just spitballing.

 

[mossman77]

Well, everyone here as well as the good folks at SVS all told you almost exactly the same thing, independent of each other, so...

It might be hitting a certain volume level at the mic, but the room isn't getting pressurized and it's forcing that little sub to work a lot harder than it wants to.

Makes sense. I'm going to experiment with two subs this evening. Albeit one sealed and one ported from different manufacturers, it should hopefully give me an idea of what difference a larger ported sub or even dual subs will give me.

 

[mossman77]

I wonder if Audyssey picks up on any distortion and recommends lower levels? I have no clue, just spitballing.

I don't think so. The test tones/pink noise are pretty low during the setup routine. In fact I can barely hear the tone through the sub. I'm surprised it can detect the room acoustics accurately using such a subtle tone.

 

[mossman77]

Here's a cross section of the space, which comprises the living room, dining room, foyer, upper balcony and open/vaulted area. The SPL is at least twice as loud in the main listening position (MLP) and anywhere under the balcony floor and also at least twice as loud on the balcony. Even louder when standing in the corners of the room downstairs and the balcony. This is why I believe I am able to get away with a single SB1000 in this space. If there was no balcony/ceiling above the MLP, it would be woefully inadequate.

 

[Pogre]

Sigh...

 

[mossman77]

Sigh...

Haha, sorry. I'm not second guessing anyone. Just wanted to provide another view of the room in case that changes anyone's opinion.