Why the left is against economic growth

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Trickle down is like someone pissing down your back and telling you it's raining....
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Besides the obvious.
I should've been more specific - to GOP did to improve the economy
I agree with you, but the obvious answer is that many of their rulings have allowed previously dominant profitable companies to become more profitable and secure, which raises the stock market, which many equate to the economy.
As you point out, this is happening at the expense of innovation and new startup companies that might end up more efficient given the chance to get their feet on the ground.
Where this really hurts the country is that if we continue to give every advantage to the current industries in our country it retards the development of the next decades business,
If it wasn't for Musk starting up a new company with his fortunes, where would the USA be for Electric vehicles.
It would be a different story if more of the wealthy had more of an eye towards improving the quality of life for everyone. I really don't know Musk's true character; however, between Tesla and SpaceX, he is giving US important venues in which to innovate and stay competitive in the global market. He has also greatly accelerated the development of the electric vehicle throughout the entire world! I'd be willing to give him the tax breaks because of what he has done to improve the future and helping hedge against the repercussions of global warming (I think no one really knows how soon and how bad things might get (or not), but switching vehicles to electric sooner rather than later can't hurt)!
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree with you, but the obvious answer is that many of their rulings have allowed previously dominant profitable companies to become more profitable and secure, which raises the stock market, which many equate to the economy.
As you point out, this is happening at the expense of innovation and new startup companies that might end up more efficient given the chance to get their feet on the ground.
Where this really hurts the country is that if we continue to give every advantage to the current industries in our country it retards the development of the next decades business,
If it wasn't for Musk starting up a new company with his fortunes, where would the USA be for Electric vehicles.
It would be a different story if more of the wealthy had more of an eye towards improving the quality of life for everyone. I really don't know Musk's true character; however, between Tesla and SpaceX, he is giving US important venues in which to innovate and stay competitive in the global market. He has also greatly accelerated the development of the throughout the entire world. I'd be willing to give him the tax breaks because of what he has done to improve the future and helping hedge against the repercussions of global warming (I think no one really knows how soon and how bad things might get (or not), but switching vehicles to electric sooner rather than later can't hurt)!
You put in more eloquently and in more detail, but basically I said very similar that de-regulation enforces already-dominant companies and promotes monopolies (see Cellular and Cable companies). Higher DOW isn't exactly quite the same as a great economy just means that few select conglomerates are doing well for themselves.
Elon Musk is ofcourse a visionary and I love what and how he does things (I'm going to seriously consider model 3 for next car), but his instability and the risks he takes could seem as shocking if I had to use the least offending word.

Someone on Arstechnica said is pretty well, for next presidential elections if you don't vote for any reason or vote for Trump there is something seriously wrong with you.
 
R

radio3

Enthusiast
The left believes that wealth is a zero sum game. They neglect to recognize that wealth actually is generated. Most obviously by the applications of ingenuity and work. This critical error in thinking explains why the Soviet Union and all other socialist economies were catastrophic failures. I’m not American and am shocked to see the US apparently on course to repeat the single biggest catastrophe of the 20th century, which was the adoption of Marxism. Marxism is essentially the belief that the rich get rich by taking from the poor. The whole thing revolves around that idea. It’s amazing how much catastrophe can result from such a simple error.

Wealth is not a zero sum game. Systems that facilitate the generation of wealth prosper. Systems that disincentivize it result in human catastrophe. I think all the younger generations of Americans must have been deprived of education on what transpired, the unbelievable suffering and tragedy that had to be endured, in socialist economies of the 20th century.
 
R

radio3

Enthusiast
You put in more eloquently and in more detail, but basically I said very similar that de-regulation enforces already-dominant companies and promotes monopolies (see Cellular and Cable companies). Higher DOW isn't exactly quite the same as a great economy just means that few select conglomerates are doing well for themselves.
Elon Musk is ofcourse a visionary and I love what and how he does things (I'm going to seriously consider model 3 for next car), but his instability and the risks he takes could seem as shocking if I had to use the least offending word.

Someone on Arstechnica said is pretty well, for next presidential elections if you don't vote for any reason or vote for Trump there is something seriously wrong with you.
Isn’t the US more successful now in nearly every imaginable metric than it has been in 50 years or something? Why would you put that behind something else and what exactly do you put it behind?
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Isn’t the US more successful now in nearly every imaginable metric than it has been in 50 years or something? Why would you put that behind something else and what exactly do you put it behind?
I think me and you have different definitions of word "successful"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment (soft by 25-64) we at 6th spot
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2019 (sort by Purchasing Power - we are behind Qatar,Swiss, and Australia)

What we do have the largest amount of Billionaires and Homeless, Private Prisons, a broken voting system, etc, etc,etc..
You're living in the bubble and then (not if) this bubble will burst it may be too late to try to address these
 
R

radio3

Enthusiast
I think me and you have different definitions of word "successful"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment (soft by 25-64) we at 6th spot
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2019 (sort by Purchasing Power - we are behind Qatar,Swiss, and Australia)

What we do have the largest amount of Billionaires and Homeless, Private Prisons, a broken voting system, etc, etc,etc..
I live in a Nordic Model country. We do great on all those things but few here would prefer to be here over the US. You’ve chosen A small number of ways to define success so as to artificially make the US look bad. I don’t understand why half of Americans seem to want their own country to do poorly. My best guess is that those half are people who feel they are in the lower half of success and would like depose the half that are more successful than them. Not for the greater good but for their own relative status. That of course would be against the greater good. I don’t mean to pick on you but the state of people in the US is very astonishing. So much so that it really begs for some kind of explanation that’s
more of emotional basis than rational. It’s astonishing that many of you seem to dislike the most accomplished society in the history of humanity and want to veer the country toward repeating the mistake of the Soviet Union. In the US it seems to be considered progressive to repeat what Russia did in the 19th century. They still haven’t recovered from that mistake. Can’t you see that?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
We won't hold it against you.
Please, please, please tell me you caught the boner reference in my post (no pun intended) and then made one of your own. I'd hate to think the whole planet grew up and left me in my adolescence. Where is Adam when you need him?
 
R

radio3

Enthusiast
I'm an American and I know that there isn't one Scandinavian citizen that would want to trade places with me. Modern Scandinavia is way ahead of the curve in many ways. American society is looked down upon.
Hah, how do you know that? You are talking to one here. I think part of the problem is that Americans are isolated and haven’t been to other countries (Because surrounded by ocean mostly). Well, I don’t know what YOUR situation is. But I have family members and friends in the US and I have been there as well.

It would be nice if you could answer the question. Do you recognize that Russia is 150 years ahead of the US? It did Marxism in the 19th century. Millions of people died or went through total agony as a consequence. Do you realize that? Have you stopped to think about that at all? They still haven’t recovered. Meanwhile, the US was far and away the most successful society in the world. Every country in a Asia that has adopted the American model (Japan, S Korea, Singapore) after being reconstructed after war or serving as a model of excellence, has prospered similarly. Every country in Asia that did not is still a 3rd world country. All the countries that adopted Marxism are now 3rd world. Have you thought about history or evidence at all? Serious question. That might sound facetious, but I really think it is the case that many Americans are so immersed in left wing propaganda that they don’t think outside of it. The first thing one should think of, always, is what history/evidence indicates. Not what one’s own theories or religion imply.
 
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R

radio3

Enthusiast
My Grandparents (on both sides) left Norway for the US in the 1890's. They would never do that today.

How many Norwegians left Norway in 2019 to become Americans? Zero.
Your grandparent were in the 50% of Americans who dislike their own country even though they have hardly spent any time anywhere else? Are there other countries any of you can speculate are better than your own or is it only my land :)
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The left believes that wealth is a zero sum game. They neglect to recognize that wealth actually is generated. Most obviously by the applications of ingenuity and work. This critical error in thinking explains why the Soviet Union and all other socialist economies were catastrophic failures. I’m not American and am shocked to see the US apparently on course to repeat the single biggest catastrophe of the 20th century, which was the adoption of Marxism. Marxism is essentially the belief that the rich get rich by taking from the poor. The whole thing revolves around that idea. It’s amazing how much catastrophe can result from such a simple error.

Wealth is not a zero sum game. Systems that facilitate the generation of wealth prosper. Systems that disincentivize it result in human catastrophe. I think all the younger generations of Americans must have been deprived of education on what transpired, the unbelievable suffering and tragedy that had to be endured, in socialist economies of the 20th century.
As an expat from the UK who escaped socialism in the Wilson years, I can assure Americans know little of history and you have put your finger right on the blind spot. We have some very dangerous ideas taking root among the younger generation here.

One interesting fact that came to light in the Twin Cities Start Tribune, is that right wing regimes close the education gap of minorities quicker the left wing regimes which have the worst record. This does not surprise me at all. The City of Minneapolis is a leftist hot spot, and there education gap is among the worst.

I hope BOJO's coat tails will have an impact here in this year's elections. The communists under Corbyn got a proper drubbing. Mclusky and Unite are proving what many have maintained, that fascism is largely a construct of the left. They are fascist make no mistake. I bet they will be daft enough to elect Rebecca Wrong Daily to replace Corbyn!
 
R

radio3

Enthusiast
Out-of-Phase You’re not going to address anything I bring up, are you? For you, the US is just a bad country and you’d rather live somewhere else or drastically change it. But you won’t move. To Canada for example, or your beloved land of blond hair blue eyes, where I am :). Ok, well anyway I gotta go to sleep
 
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R

radio3

Enthusiast
I’m not trolling. It‘s really crazy to me. The country that saved the West from Marxism is now the countrue that most wants to become Marxist. It’d be comical if it wasn’t such a tragedy. I strongly encourage you to either study European history more or move to a country you are more happy with. It’s not good to live somewhere that you dislike for what it is. It would be very easy for you to either come here or move to Canada, Cuba, or Mexico. Zzz
 

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