5 channel Power amp comparison

[Pogre]

A li'l amplifier milk will make any receiver sound smoother so that's all you really need.

I watched that video before and just watched it again. No, Gene did not say all the things you claimed he said, except, yes he mentioned something about the $500 receiver would fall apart driving 4 ohm speakers etc. That's almost just common sense though, that he really wasn't telling experienced AH members anything new in that regard. As I was watching, I jotted down some of the things he said (not word for word, just my interpretation):

- Don't buy $500 receiver to drive 4 ohm speakers full range.
- Significant difference between the $800 5014 and the 8012 he recently reviewed.
- DAC, bigger power supply, better pre-amp output can be expected in more expensive receivers than the cheap/$500 ones.
- Not saying those differences would definitely be audible as it depends on many things, whether the speakers are 4 ohm rated, listened to loud, in a big room..
- Can external amps added to a receiver make a different? Yes and no, it really depends...he went on to explain the importance of the pre-out quality at 2 V output.

So Gene, as he typically would, included qualifiers with words like "depends, cheap, $500 vs $>2,000 receivers such as the SR8012, 4 ohm rated, loud, big room, full range... etc.



May be you sit far from the speakers in a large room and your "moderate" level is actually not moderate for others. The fact is, it depends, for example, I pasted the calculation for the OP's 91 dB 8 ohm speakers from 11 ft, he can get "moderate" level of 75 dB from just one speaker for 0.09 W, for your 4 ohm 87 dB speaker, it would be about 0.9 W so your 3XXX series Denon AVR should have no trouble providing all the punches you need two channel driven.

Now if you crank it up to reference level, like 85 dB average, then your AVR will have to output about 9 W average (if one speaker is used). That would still be fine without suffering from lack of dynamics for most music except certain tracks that have dynamic peaks of say >=12 dB and that's when you may perceive lack of "punches" and/or hear distortions. However, adding a 5X100W external amp is not going to offer "huge difference". Your claim must be taken with a grain of salt as others who take it as facts may be disappointed..



That is your subjective perception, many members here owned/own both Marantz and another brand and did not feel the Marantz has such a "signature". No one can argue with you though, all we can say is that it is just your own subjective impression, ommv.

The power if suggestion is so strong. When I was building a system for my truck many moons ago I was all about the amplifier. I swore I thought I heard a huge difference when I upgraded and doubled up my power, even at lower levels. Deep down I think I knew the truth tho...

 

[lovinthehd]

OTOH, as they say, one way to find out is to do it. I've got several power amps on hand that say it didn't make a lot of difference. Many of us have been there done that.

 

[panteragstk]

OTOH, as they say, one way to find out is to do it. I've got several power amps on hand that say it didn't make a lot of difference. Many of us have been there done that.

I've heard amps make a difference before, but that was when they were driving a very difficult speaker. One amp was just able to handle the speaker better. Simple as that.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've heard amps make a difference before, but that was when they were driving a very difficult speaker. One amp was just able to handle the speaker better. Simple as that.

If spl is high enough to make a difference....

 

[panteragstk]

If spl is high enough to make a difference....

Concert speaker so in my case very much so.

 

[lovinthehd]

Concert speaker so in my case very much so.

? Not sure what that means....you speak at concerts?

 

[panteragstk]

? Not sure what that means....you speak at concerts?

...no lol

It was a PA/live sound speaker that was a power hungry beast. We never really thought we were driving it to full potential...we were right. That sucker needed a heck of an amp.

 

[pinifinina]

Wow!!! I have to say "Thanks to you all" for providing such a useful information, I really appreciate all your effort on contributing to this topic. I think I have made my decision on this matter. Judging from all your expertise and experience, I think I am gonna .............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................."keep my money in my pocket and stick with my Anthem receiver".

I mean I like the sound from my speaker and receiver, but...I just thought if I could have "more" out of it by "adding" stuff to improve it rather than "replace" it. I guess I was just too......greedy? Would you all agree? Or are we all the same? always wanting more and better sound!!?

So it seems like by adding a separate external amp is not going to change anything, I am just gonna stick with what it is now. I guess there is just so many articles/reviews that talks about going "separate" is the way to go and it will give night and day difference that keeps strikes me that this is the way to get "better" or the best sound.

Ages ago when I visited an audio shop the sells person even tells me you will need an powerful external amp especially when you are not listening loud, because you need all the current to make the speaker "still" sound good while it is at low volume, which is all the low power receiver suffers. As well as the speaker cable for surround speaker requires even higher quality then the front channel speaker because you need to run them much longer distance, so for front speaker you run 10feet long speaker cable which only requires 14-16AWG, whereas surrounds, you might need to run 50feet, so you need 10-12AWG cable... I guess this is all.......crap? Or is he correct?

 

[lovinthehd]

There's a big difference in sales efforts vs actual needs in too many cases (it really shouldn't be this way). The industry is geared to selling you a lot of crap you don't need, tho. Hopefully you're not suckered in by the cable bullshit or a few other areas....

 

[pinifinina]

There's a big difference in sales efforts vs actual needs in too many cases (it really shouldn't be this way). The industry is geared to selling you a lot of crap you don't need, tho. Hopefully you're not suckered in by the cable bullshit or a few other areas....

Hi @lovinthehd ,
No i didn't fall in. I went with 18AWG for the surround (50 feet each as it needs to around the room to reach the back, i didn't go in wall installation) and 15AWG for the front 3 channels, do you think I've being too cheap? Or is this ok?

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi @lovinthehd ,
No i didn't fall in. I went with 18AWG for the surround (50 feet each as it needs to around the room to reach the back, i didn't go in wall installation) and 15AWG for the front 3 channels, do you think I've being too cheap? Or is this ok?

The lower gauge wire is needed more on the longer lengths than shorter ones.....but try this site http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

[pinifinina]

He's not asking you run ARC when watching a movie. He meant have ARC "on" so it can do the equalization thing. Two different things!

What is the minimum and maximum volume position for the MRX 510?

Normally, if you ran AARC properly, it would likely calibrate things so that when volume is at "0", you would be listening to "reference" level, or 85 dB average from you main mic position, and that would be about the same as what you would get sitting in a movie cinema, that is, very loud to the point extended exposure day after day to that level may result in hearing loss.

If Anthem use similar standards as the mainstay AVR manufacturers such as Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer, with volume at -30 or even -10, there is no way your MRX would be pushing 75 W.

Even with just one single Monitor 11v7 should get you 85 dB average with 0.9 watt, or 105 dB peak with 90 W. That's just 1 speaker, based on your seating distance of 11 ft in your speaker's sensitivity at 93 dB/2.83V/1meter in room response.

If you listen at -10, and assuming 0 is reference, then you should be listening to about 75 dB average and that's just about my comfort level. In that case, your MRX would be cruising at around 0.01 WPC, that's no joke, it's science and reality!!

So something does not sound right in your measurements and the key thing to solve this puzzle is to figure out what does volume "-30" really represents for Anthem receivers. We all know what it means (at least roughly..) if it was a D&M, Y, O, or P receivers, but not really sure about Anthem as they are not really that popular, so less users post about their experience. I am a curious persons, as I am using one of their amps in my HT, so I am going to search for any helpful info..

View attachment 33406

Thanks @PENG

Yes you are correct, it doesn't make sense if I calibrate 0 to be reference level I should only be getting 85dB and not 100 something... this is odd, i need to go back and check my ARC measurement. Thank you for bring this out. I think my Anthem volume scale range from +10 to -80 something...

But you are correct, if it was calibrate properly, if I dial volume to 0dB i should get 85dB. And also from your SPL calculation, yes, 75W per channel from my Anthem receiver should be plenty...who needs a external amp!!!??

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks @PENG

Yes you are correct, it doesn't make sense if I calibrate 0 to be reference level I should only be getting 85dB and not 100 something... this is odd, i need to go back and check my ARC measurement. Thank you for bring this out. I think my Anthem volume scale range from +10 to -80 something...

But you are correct, if it was calibrate properly, if I dial volume to 0dB i should get 85dB. And also from your SPL calculation, yes, 75W per channel from my Anthem receiver should be plenty...who needs a external amp!!!??

Keep in mind that average and peak levels are 20dB different.....if you calibrate to 0 dB as reference level using the reference scale, then average level (at loudest levels) would be 85 dB average. By your description not sure what you expect any more....

 

[pinifinina]

The lower gauge wire is needed more on the longer lengths than shorter ones.....but try this site http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Hi @lovinthehd , yes, I agree with this, but does this applies even for the surround speakers? So are you saying I actually need 12AWG for my surround speaker?

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi @lovinthehd , yes, I agree with this, but does this applies even for the surround speakers? So are you saying I actually need 12AWG for my surround speaker?

Depending on gauge/length sure it is still a factor, more so for multich music than movies IMO too. You can use various calculators...

 

[pinifinina]

Keep in mind that average and peak levels are 20dB different.....if you calibrate to 0 dB as reference level using the reference scale, then average level (at loudest levels) would be 85 dB average. By your description not sure what you expect any more....

Sounds like I have some "post kids sleeping" task to do!

 

[lovinthehd]

Sounds like I have some "post kids sleeping" task to do!

Depends to an extent on the tools you have....

 

[Pogre]

Hi @lovinthehd ,
No i didn't fall in. I went with 18AWG for the surround (50 feet each as it needs to around the room to reach the back, i didn't go in wall installation) and 15AWG for the front 3 channels, do you think I've being too cheap? Or is this ok?

Speaker cable nonsense isn't so much AWG as it is some guys will try to sell you on very, very expensive ones with claims of better sound. That's the bs part.