Slight static/crackle

[lovinthehd]

Hate to say it, but I think your issue is due to both the speakers and AVR. One the speakers are not very efficient and listed at 4 ohm impedance. Which means they dip well below that 4 ohm rating. Your AVR only has listing specs for 8 ohm and 6 ohm. And at 6 ohm they give a 10% distortion rating with the power. Since they are not publishing any 4 ohm specs and you know the speakers dip well below 4ohm, the receivers power circuitry just isn't capable of driving those speakers cleanly.
Always the chance of a bad transformer or weak circuit breaker somewhere in your junction box, but the odds are it is more than likely the combination of those speakers and your AVR just don't match up nicely.

What do you mean by "at 6 ohm they give a 10% distortion rating" particularly? It's just a way to make a number look bigger. It doesn't mean it can't do 6 ohm at less distortion nor does it mean much about its 4 ohm capability.

 

[sterling shoote]

This sounds like a clipping issue, particular media and various degrees of clipping with exchange of equipment. When a tweeter is clipped it crackles, when a sub is clipped it sounds like a sledge hammer hitting a steel pylon. I just downloaded Acid Rain and ZERO issue from my system. Yeah, my bet is this all about not having enough power to drive your speakers at the desired volume. BTW, I used to power my sub with a 300 watt amp and that was not enough power. I had to replace it with a 560 watt amp to extinguish clipping. On the other hand, the problem could be exclusive to the particular media being poorly recorded; and thus, playing at most any volume from your stereo system, phone, iPad, or headphones would cause a clipping like sound. For example, I recently downloaded 2CELLOS "Fields of Gold" from Apple Music. It's listed as a bonus track. I now know why, it was recorded too hot, clipping like distortion galore through playback from any of my equipment. Here's a recording which is not too hot. You can download the other from Apple Music and hear the divergence.

 

[Truthslayer]

What do you mean by "at 6 ohm they give a 10% distortion rating" particularly? It's just a way to make a number look bigger. It doesn't mean it can't do 6 ohm at less distortion nor does it mean much about its 4 ohm capability.

What I mean is if they are willing to give out that 6 ohm spec with distortion at 10%. That at that 10% distortion rating of the 250 watts, you can bet your ass, that's the peak and absolute most power your going to get from that AVR. It's also very telling with absolutely no publishing of a 4 ohm spec, that it is not going to be able to drive a 4 ohm load without large amounts of distortion. In other words it's a weak amp. the amp and speakers that were chosen, unfortunately don't work well together. That static and or hiss he is complaining about, is one of the first indicators, of trying to drive a load on a amp that it's not designed to handle.
Doesn't mean it's a bad AVR, just that it's not going to play well with a 4 ohm load. I'd be willing to bet, in less than a year from now, we hear back from the OP saying that the AVR quit working or the amp has burned out.

 

[Pogre]

What I mean is if they are willing to give out that 6 ohm spec with distortion at 10%. That at that 10% distortion rating of the 250 watts, you can bet your ass, that's the peak and absolute most power your going to get from that AVR. It's also very telling with absolutely no publishing of a 4 ohm spec, that it is not going to be able to drive a 4 ohm load without large amounts of distortion. In other words it's a weak amp. the amp and speakers that were chosen, unfortunately don't work well together. That static and or hiss he is complaining about, is one of the first indicators, of trying to drive a load on a amp that it's not designed to handle.
Doesn't mean it's a bad AVR, just that it's not going to play well with a 4 ohm load. I'd be willing to bet, in less than a year from now, we hear back from the OP saying that the AVR quit working or the amp has burned out.

So how do you explain him hearing the same distortion on the same songs in the same spots over multiple sources, amps and speakers..?

 

[sterling shoote]

So how do you explain him hearing the same distortion on the same songs in the same spots over multiple sources, amps and speakers..?

Yes, indeed, it would indicate two tunes which have hot peaks, which are further aggravated by the amp/speaker configurations employed so far.

 

[lovinthehd]

What I mean is if they are willing to give out that 6 ohm spec with distortion at 10%. That at that 10% distortion rating of the 250 watts, you can bet your ass, that's the peak and absolute most power your going to get from that AVR. It's also very telling with absolutely no publishing of a 4 ohm spec, that it is not going to be able to drive a 4 ohm load without large amounts of distortion. In other words it's a weak amp. the amp and speakers that were chosen, unfortunately don't work well together. That static and or hiss he is complaining about, is one of the first indicators, of trying to drive a load on a amp that it's not designed to handle.
Doesn't mean it's a bad AVR, just that it's not going to play well with a 4 ohm load. I'd be willing to bet, in less than a year from now, we hear back from the OP saying that the AVR quit working or the amp has burned out.

It's just marketing people aiming at low hanging fruit. Most of us know that's a fairly meaningless spec, but they're going after guys who think in terms of the most wattage for their amps, their speakers, etc, even if they don't know how it works. Show me an avr with a 4 ohm rating....hardly any out there but that doesn't mean an avr can't drive a 4 ohm speaker to a given level. Sure, if you're going to have some silly low impedance/high phase angle monster of a speaker get an amp to drive it to the levels you crave.....but we'll see in the case of the OP.

 

[Truthslayer]

So how do you explain him hearing the same distortion on the same songs in the same spots over multiple sources, amps and speakers..?

You cant really explain it without knowing all the different gear and sources as you say. And without knowing his buddys sources. And you would think he must notice this on all his music, not just the specific CD which makes it more obvious. Because if it was just a certain cd or song, I think or hope he would have the smarts to know that it was that particular track or tracks. However he did say while in the motel room and listening to it through a Bose setup, he did not hear it. While the issue could be a number of things, the odds are it's a good bet that it's due to the gear not matching up and playing nicely together. If you don't properly match up equipment, sorry to say but these things are going to happen. Sorry to say but that AVR is not going to like driving a 4 ohm load, let alone when it is dipping down to below 3 ohms.
There is also the possibility, it's not the gear at all. But an incoming electrical issue. But he did not say he noticed the problem before the new gear. Sounds like all was ok with his old Onkyo unit and Klipsch speakers being used together. Which tends one to believe the issue would seem to boil down to his new Denon unit. Either way i'm just throwing out possibilities to help trouble shoot. I along with many others im sure ran into some of these same issues when first getting into the hobby. But with time, troubleshooting, knowledge and matching up gear properly, these things are less likely to happen.
Throwing all the possibilities out there is the best way for him to trouble shoot and figure out his issue.

 

[Truthslayer]

It's just marketing people aiming at low hanging fruit. Most of us know that's a fairly meaningless spec, but they're going after guys who think in terms of the most wattage for their amps, their speakers, etc, even if they don't know how it works. Show me an avr with a 4 ohm rating....hardly any out there but that doesn't mean an avr can't drive a 4 ohm speaker to a given level. Sure, if you're going to have some silly low impedance/high phase angle monster of a speaker get an amp to drive it to the levels you crave.....but we'll see in the case of the OP.

Lovin- I totally agree with the marketing crap that they will stoop to. But any AVR, or amp worth anything that's capable of driving 4 ohm loads will publish some specs regarding it. I'm sure your well aware of the fact that the 4 ohm rating on the speakers also means it's going to dip well below 4 ohms. Plus those speakers are not very efficient to begin with. So in the long run, I think he is going to run into more problems with that Denon trying to push those particular speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Lovin- I totally agree with the marketing crap that they will stoop to. But any AVR, or amp worth anything that's capable of driving 4 ohm loads will publish some specs regarding it. I'm sure your well aware of the fact that the 4 ohm rating on the speakers also means it's going to dip well below 4 ohms. Plus those speakers are not very efficient to begin with. So in the long run, I think he is going to run into more problems with that Denon trying to push those particular speakers.

Nope, they don't drop below 4 ohm. See shadyj's measurements/comments here for these speakers https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/monoprice-monolith-thx-365t-thx-365c/conclusion. At the levels he's mentioning playing this "distorted" piece at the avr should be fine.

 

[Pogre]

You cant really explain it without knowing all the different gear and sources as you say. And without knowing his buddys sources. And you would think he must notice this on all his music, not just the specific CD which makes it more obvious. Because if it was just a certain cd or song, I think or hope he would have the smarts to know that it was that particular track or tracks. However he did say while in the motel room and listening to it through a Bose setup, he did not hear it. While the issue could be a number of things, the odds are it's a good bet that it's due to the gear not matching up and playing nicely together. If you don't properly match up equipment, sorry to say but these things are going to happen. Sorry to say but that AVR is not going to like driving a 4 ohm load, let alone when it is dipping down to below 3 ohms.
There is also the possibility, it's not the gear at all. But an incoming electrical issue. But he did not say he noticed the problem before the new gear. Sounds like all was ok with his old Onkyo unit and Klipsch speakers being used together. Which tends one to believe the issue would seem to boil down to his new Denon unit. Either way i'm just throwing out possibilities to help trouble shoot. I along with many others im sure ran into some of these same issues when first getting into the hobby. But with time, troubleshooting, knowledge and matching up gear properly, these things are less likely to happen.
Throwing all the possibilities out there is the best way for him to trouble shoot and figure out his issue.

Either that or the the Bose just plain isn't revealing enough to resolve the distortion.

 

[Truthslayer]

Nope, they don't drop below 4 ohm. See shadyj's measurements/comments here for these speakers https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/monoprice-monolith-thx-365t-thx-365c/conclusion. At the levels he's mentioning playing this "distorted" piece at the avr should be fine.

Your right about the impedance level drop, as he states-
(The impedance never dips down below 4 ohms, but the steep phase angle at the impedance minima between 100 Hz and 200 Hz may be a tough load for cheaper amps. Budget amplifiers should be OK with this load if it isn’t played loud, but who buys THX speakers to only be played at soft volumes? Outside of a small but important frequency band between 100 Hz and 200 Hz, the electrical load is fairly easygoing. I wouldn’t task an entry-level AVR amp with running these speakers, but a mid-level AVR should be OK.)

So the possibility just could be the AVR just isn't up to the task, however there are just so many other possibilities, the OP is just going to have to do some serious trouble shooting. I don't blame him for being annoyed with his hiss/static issue, it would drive me nuts. Nothing worse than spending a fair amount of money for an AVR to have these issues. Anyways I hope he figures it out.

 

[Truthslayer]

Either that or the the Bose just plain isn't revealing enough to resolve the distortion.

Pogre- yep, don't even get us started on the Bose stuff. Still amazes me how they have die hard fans.

 

[lovinthehd]

Your right about the impedance level drop, as he states-
(The impedance never dips down below 4 ohms, but the steep phase angle at the impedance minima between 100 Hz and 200 Hz may be a tough load for cheaper amps. Budget amplifiers should be OK with this load if it isn’t played loud, but who buys THX speakers to only be played at soft volumes? Outside of a small but important frequency band between 100 Hz and 200 Hz, the electrical load is fairly easygoing. I wouldn’t task an entry-level AVR amp with running these speakers, but a mid-level AVR should be OK.)

So the possibility just could be the AVR just isn't up to the task, however there are just so many other possibilities, the OP is just going to have to do some serious trouble shooting. I don't blame him for being annoyed with his hiss/static issue, it would drive me nuts. Nothing worse than spending a fair amount of money for an AVR to have these issues. Anyways I hope he figures it out.

It's a possibility. Could be a variety of things, hard to know from where we sit.

 

[Truthslayer]

It's a possibility. Could be a variety of things, hard to know from where we sit.

Agreed, I feel bad for the guy. If he can't figure it out, hopefully he knows someone who can help him to trouble shoot and resolve it.

 

[JRED 1219]

Agreed, I feel bad for the guy. If he can't figure it out, hopefully he knows someone who can help him to trouble shoot and resolve it.

It's the source media. Apperently I have an ear for this type of thing. The AVR has no issue driving these speakers. However, I did just order my monolith 5 channel x200 watts amp. I will see, but I can hear it on multiple media. I am very confident that Acid Rain clips in the intro as well. I am learning that not everyone can hear this sort of thing. I honestly wish I couldn't...

In my comment about the Bose speaker, I was thinking that the music might be mixed knowing people are listening from low resolution crap equipment where you can't hear the distortion and it plays loud.

 

[JRED 1219]

It's the source media. Apperently I have an ear for this type of thing. The AVR has no issue driving these speakers. However, I did just order my monolith 5 channel x200 watts amp. I will see, but I can hear it on multiple media. I am very confident that "Zero" clips in the intro as well. I am learning that not everyone can hear this sort of thing. I honestly wish I couldn't...

In my comment about the Bose speaker, I was thinking that the music might be mixed knowing people are listening from low resolution crap equipment where you can't hear the distortion and it plays loud.

However, I can report that the clipping was not an issue live, however. So the solution is to listen to tool live to avoid digital clipping.

 

[sterling shoote]

It's the source media. Apperently I have an ear for this type of thing. The AVR has no issue driving these speakers. However, I did just order my monolith 5 channel x200 watts amp. I will see, but I can hear it on multiple media. I am very confident that "Zero" clips in the intro as well. I am learning that not everyone can hear this sort of thing. I honestly wish I couldn't...

In my comment about the Bose speaker, I was thinking that the music might be mixed knowing people are listening from low resolution crap equipment where you can't hear the distortion and it plays loud.

I told you so, post #62 and 65, bad recorded media aggravated more or less by the equipment delivering it. This sort of thing is common today. One way to discern if it's exclusive to a particular performance is to download an alternate performance. The most glaring example is the iTunes/Apple Music 2CELLOS performance of Fields of Gold. It's a disaster. It's called a bonus track, maybe because no one would pay for it. I suggest you download it. At any rate, Peng and Lovinthehd were hot on the trail too, they're critical thinkers.

 

[Pogre]

However, I can report that the clipping was not an issue live, however. So the solution is to listen to tool live to avoid digital clipping.

That's a real bummer man. I love TOOL also. I've been on board with them since the early 90's and I was playing drums. Danny Carey is an absolute master on the drums. So creative and talented. The whole band is. It'd drive me crazy too if I heard clipping all over the cd.

 

[JRED 1219]

That's a real bummer man. I love TOOL also. I've been on board with them since the early 90's and I was playing drums. Danny Carey is an absolute master on the drums. So creative and talented. The whole band is. It'd drive me crazy too if I heard clipping all over the cd.

I play the drums too. Danny did a gong solo for the show where he stood with his back to the crowd and hit a gong. It was epic!