Setting speakers to Large and also crossover to 60 hz and above with LFE + MAIN

[Sachb]

Hi Audioholics,

I have ELAC DEBUT 6.2 and C6.2 speakers and Boston Acoustics ASW 250.
I tried a new setting where I could set my Speakers to Large and at the same time set the crossover to 60 hz and above while setting the LFE to LFE + Main, I know ideally speakers should be set to small.

Has any one tried this with Speakers that are capable of doing at least mid 40s ??

My music became more punchier than ever before with these settings. Any thoughts?

 

[sterling shoote]

I operated my mains set at Large for about 15 years, then, for grins and giggles, I set them at small to crossover at 60 Hz. I also set my center and surrounds to small and set them to crossover at 80Hz. Later, I set the white noise volume of center, surrounds, and sub to match mains with the aid of a cell phone sound meter app. This process/adjustment has delivered what seems to be the proper bass effect, from my prepro, for stereo as well as multi-channel music and movies. I also enjoy multi-channel SACDs processed by their player, an OPPO 205, which is set to manage bass. It gets a great result too. that's to say, bass sounds natural.

 

[Sachb]

I operated my mains set at Large for about 15 years, then, for grins and giggles, I set them at small to crossover at 60 Hz. I also set my center and surrounds to small and set them to crossover at 80Hz. Later, I set the white noise volume of center, surrounds, and sub to match mains with the aid of a cell phone sound meter app. This process gets me the best bass management from my prepro for stereo as well as multi-channel music and movies.

You can do the same while setting Speakers to Large with LFE + Main if you have a denon with audyssey.

People don't talk aboutthis much often.

There is a LFE setting which is called LFE + Main which allows you to set crossovers even when speakers are set to Large.


Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[sterling shoote]

Hi Audioholics,

I have ELAC DEBUT 6.2 and C6.2 speakers.
I tried a new setting where I could set my Speakers to Large and at the same time set the crossover to 60 hz and above while setting the LFE to LFE + Main, I know ideally speakers should be set to small.

Has any one tried this with Speakers that are capable of doing at least mid 40s ??

My music became more punchier than ever before with these settings. Any thoughts?

There's one thing about your settings, which some don't like: when you have your mains set to Large, those speakers will be sent the full low end frequency of media, so you have low end from mains as well as the sub. I had this as mentioned in my earlier post for about 15 years before I addressed it, whereby, I reset my mains to Small. Set to Small the mains drivers do not need more power than available plus, they can produce high volume without being driven into distortion.

 

[sterling shoote]

You can do the same while setting Speakers to Large with LFE + Main if you have a denon with audyssey.

People don't talk aboutthis much often.

There is a LFE setting which is called LFE + Main which allows you to set crossovers even when speakers are set to Large.


Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

I have a Sony TA-E9000ES Prepro, which is set to deliver bass from stereo, and from surround sound input via LFE. I also have an all analog Sony TA-P9000ES Multi-channel Preamplifier, which has very limited bass management. However, since that amp is connected to my OPPO 205, its bass management is moot because the OPPO serves that function for all multi-channel/stereo input.

 

[ryanosaur]

I just replied to OPs thread-surrection of a 2year old thread.

I agree with Sterling.
OP, you are going to potentially damage your speakers. Not a guarantee, but I would not expect that they instaled a high pass filter to protect the woofer from over-excursing if sent a 20Hz signal at volume. Also LFE+Main can muddy the bass.
If anything, my recommendation to you would be to start saving for a better subwoofer.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is there a sub involved at all?

 

[Sachb]

There's one thing about your settings, which some don't like: when you have your mains set to Large, those speakers will be sent the full low end frequency of media, so you have low end from mains as well as the sub.

But I have set mine to 60 hz on Large, would it still send FULL BAND signal to my fronts or a slight roll of signal below 60 hz?

I just replied to OPs thread-surrection of a 2year old thread.

I agree with Sterling.
OP, you are going to potentially damage your speakers. Not a guarantee, but I would not expect that they instaled a high pass filter to protect the woofer from over-excursing if sent a 20Hz signal at volume. Also LFE+Main can muddy the bass.
If anything, my recommendation to you would be to start saving for a better subwoofer.

My Subwoofer is Boston Acoustics ASW 250, which has:
Frequency Range
28Hz – 150Hz, +-3dB
100 watts RMS (250 watts Peak)

These subs are good, but How good are they wit the ELACS are questionable at best. I wanted to change the Sub too but all money was spent on LCRs alone (Fronts).

Is there a sub involved at all?

Yes My Sub is Boston Acoustics ASW 250, which is 10" down firing sub with a frequency response of 28Hz – 150Hz, +-3dB

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks, since it wasn't mentioned didn't know what your setup was but I already looked at your other posts in the meantime. I don't like the LFE + Main setting myself, more a matter of preference I suppose. I wouldn't ask too much of the Elacs, tho they're more capable than the Bostons you were using....

 

[Sachb]

Thanks, since it wasn't mentioned didn't know what your setup was but I already looked at your other posts in the meantime. I don't like the LFE + Main setting myself, more a matter of preference I suppose. I wouldn't ask too much of the Elacs, tho they're more capable than the Bostons you were using....

I might have to change the Sub next to match the tonality of the ELACS, mix matching the sub shouldn't be a problem, but it seems to be a problem in my situation.

Audyssey set my Sub woofer to -12 db, but the Volume knob on the sub is at 50% so that's a right setting. Denon recommends setting the Sub volume to 50%, before calibration which I followed.

Yes and ELACs are capable of going as low as 44 hz, but my crossover is set to 60 hz on Large setting. Should still be a roll of after 60 hz I believe.

 

[lovinthehd]

If the Denon is set for -12dB that's an indication that your gain on the sub is set too high. I've found few commercial subs that need to be set at 50% gain, usually 25-30% range...turn down the gain on the sub and re-run Audyssey until it's at least -11 dB.

Need to reread my Denon manuals on LFE+Main with speakers set to large as well as with a crossover....which means they're not really set to full range? Been a while....

I doubt there's much to gain by trying to "tonally match" your sub, tho but set the levels correctly before you judge....

 

[lovinthehd]

Doing a little reading on using LFE+Main, if set to large the speakers still get a full range signal, it is the sub's duplication of bass you can adjust somewhat with the "crossover" which is just the low pass for the sub now....

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes and ELACs are capable of going as low as 44 hz, but my crossover is set to 60 hz on Large setting. Should still be a roll of after 60 hz I believe.

Nope.
Lovin' is correct that the speakers are getting full range. For the AVR XO to work, speakers must be set to small... and many will agree that your XOs are still too low.
Hell, By Standmounts are rated for 34Hz, and I found 80 is better than 60, in terms of punchier mids and more clear highs. Having good Subs helps, too.

I might have to change the Sub next to match the tonality of the ELACS, mix matching the sub shouldn't be a problem, but it seems to be a problem in my situation.

?????
Your subs and speakers don't need to match brands. Tonality? No. What you need is to choose the right Sub or Subs for your room. All of our usual suspects are very capable of working with any speaker from the lowest of lows to the highest end. I like my Outlaws, but recognize that Hsu, SVS, Rythmik, PSA, and the Monoliths all could do the job equally as well as my X-13s. What you will get is better support down low and the ability to free up your speakers to produce quality sound where it matters... above 120Hz. Your front three can do the rest.

 

[PENG]

As mentioned, for better result, you should set the speakers to small and crossover at 80 Hz (or higher). 60 Hz may work but unlikely because of the greater chance of bad interaction between the speakers and the subwoofer. Audyssey is okay in integrating them but to integrate with speaker that has good response below 60 Hz is quite a challenge.

I have no idea why Denon, Marantz and probably others too, seem to typically recommend setting to sub vol to 50 % to begin with but in my experience it rarely work and I have 5 different subs, only one I could get close to 50%, the others need to be dialed way down to about 25% of lower in order to get it in the green zone during auto setup.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

http://www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/

Never liked the lfe +mains setting personally. Just makes my bass too muddy. My hunch is that a subwoofer upgrade would go a long way.

 

[Kingnoob]

I just replied to OPs thread-surrection of a 2year old thread.

I agree with Sterling.
OP, you are going to potentially damage your speakers. Not a guarantee, but I would not expect that they instaled a high pass filter to protect the woofer from over-excursing if sent a 20Hz signal at volume. Also LFE+Main can muddy the bass.
If anything, my recommendation to you would be to start saving for a better subwoofer.

Unless lfe signal causes them to exceed xmax no way. They will have speaker damage , I could not tell any difference when my floorstander are set to full range or 40 or 80 hz because my subwoofer is so overpowering.


Ultimate bass lover !! si ht15 dvc.
Free the reptile aliens

 

[Kingnoob]

But I have set mine to 60 hz on Large, would it still send FULL BAND signal to my fronts or a slight roll of signal below 60 hz?



My Subwoofer is Boston Acoustics ASW 250, which has:
Frequency Range
28Hz – 150Hz, +-3dB
100 watts RMS (250 watts Peak)

These subs are good, but How good are they wit the ELACS are questionable at best. I wanted to change the Sub too but all money was spent on LCRs alone (Fronts).



Yes My Sub is Boston Acoustics ASW 250, which is 10" down firing sub with a frequency response of 28Hz – 150Hz, +-3dB

might be a old thread but it as very useful topic .
If I have a 15” sub should I keep my floorstander at 80 hZ for the or lower then to 40’or full range to mesh better ?

How do you measure the response of a diy sub? I still got no idea and do not save my response sheet when I used the modeling program . Haha


Ultimate bass lover !! si ht15 dvc.
Free the reptile aliens

 

[lovinthehd]

How do you measure the response of a diy sub? I still got no idea and do not save my response sheet when I used the modeling program . Haha

You measure it, with a measurement mic and appropriate software like REW.

 

[everettT]

According to S&Vs measurements, the ASWs 3db is 38hz and your Elac have a 3db of 44hz. I'm not sure how much impact you are gonna get with a 60hz crossover.

 

[PENG]

You can do the same while setting Speakers to Large with LFE + Main if you have a denon with audyssey.

People don't talk aboutthis much often.

There is a LFE setting which is called LFE + Main which allows you to set crossovers even when speakers are set to Large.


Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

The LFE+Main setting is well known, at least here at Audioholics.com, just do a key word search you will see what I mean.

The bottom line is, if you prefer the effects of LFE+Main and speakers large settings then go for it, but if you were to aim for accuracy, neutrality then I am confident LFE and small (80 Hz or high XO) will do much better. I know so because I have done numerous experiment using different settings, and confirm the effects/results with REW.

If you just consider the logic and facts (specs):

Elec Debut 6.2 specs - Nominal 6 ohms, 87 dB/2.83 V/1m, max power input 120 watts, 6.5" bass driver

ASW250 - 100 W avg., 250 W peak, 10" woofer

You can see the benefits if you off load the Elac in the <80 Hz range. They will thank you, and will sing better in the 80-250 mid bass range. The AVR, especially if you have a lower mid range model, will also thank you because they won't be working as hard. Overall, your system will do better in the mid and high range as well if you set XO to 80 Hz. In fact, I would go with 100 Hz for those speakers.

However, perceived sound quality is largely a subjective thing, so if you prefer the LFE+Main and "large" settings, then go for it and none of us can change you mind. We can only offer opinions and theoretical benefits of one vs the other.

By the way, Stereophole measured the B6, you B6.2 should be similar. Below is the impedance/phase angle vs freq graph. Your AVR will definitely be happier if you set them to "small" and XO at 100 or even 110 Hz. Ask @AcuDefTechGuy about why he set his speakers (bigger than yours I assume..) to small.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-debut-b6-loudspeaker-measurements