No thoughts and prayers today?

[markw]

Which facts?

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them less than true.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them less than true.

Seriously, I don't know which facts you're referring to. The 2nd Amendment?

 

[markw]

Seriously, I don't know which facts you're referring to. The 2nd Amendment?

Seriously, how legal guns can, and do, prevent crimes.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Seriously, how legal guns can, and do, prevent crimes.

I actually do believe that, and I can quote evidence. And I'm a gun owner.

 

[Irvrobinson]

So, now you're threatening to come to get me?' You talk like my five year old grandson and I respond to you in kind. Either that, or Pee Wee Herman, with whom I'm pretty sure you share other traits..

That's not what he said. I think what Ponzio is recommending that you engage your brain before your mouth. Good advice, IMO. I wish I followed it more than I do.

 

[markw]

That's not what he said. I think what Ponzio is recommending that you engage your brain before your mouth. Good advice, IMO. I wish I followed it more than I do.

Remember when the British tried to take our guns about 250 years ago? I really believe there are still quite a few stout hearted men around that haven't been totally contaminated/castrated by the liberal kool-aid to make it interesting. I know quite a few myself.

 

[markw]

Just a little food for thought here.

https://www.dcclothesline.com/2019/01/24/2-media-blackout-of-2018-murder-statistics-mass-shootings-68-victims-killed-by-illegals-2000-victims/

Where's the outrage here? Face it people, the media is playing you to further their agenda.

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL markw is better than bradymartin opinion-wise? How so?

 

[Old Onkyo]

LOL markw is better than bradymartin opinion-wise? How so?

He is not obsessed with me...???

 

[highfigh]

Yes, thank you for making my point. There's too many guns out there and easily purchased.

Good to see you coming around to my point of view.

You really need to come up with some solutions, rather than waving the "There are too many guns" banner.

 

[Ponzio]

You really need to come up with some solutions, rather than waving the "There are too many guns" banner.

Not much of a banner-waver here personally … I do vote in every election though as an Independent … but to answer your question. I responded to you back on 2/26/18 on the subject.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-nra-owns-trump-as-well.110561/page-10#post-1235460

We should be able to engineer our way out of this. Logic says that the more guns there are out there, then more than likely a crime is going to occur. If data integration was allowed … IT IS NOT … between gun manufacturers and local/national/federal agencies and said guns are legally purchased u could more easily track a guns movement. Ban private sales like Germany does (89% gun ownership, one of the highest in the world, no assault weapons, etc.) and then you might get a better handle on things. Crimes & crimes of passion will not go away but they will be decreased. Like I said, I’m trying to engineer the problem down.

Am I right to infer that you feel the existing local/state/federal firearms controls are adequate and we’re doing just fine as is? If so, I respectfully beg to differ.

I believe in the privilege, like driving a car, to own a gun for various reasons. We can agree to disagree on whether it is a “right” like Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens did in this editorial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

As a responsible gun owner I believe that we need to streamline (data integration, etc.) and tighten things up (exhaustive background checks, there month waiting period while taking a gun safety training course, etc.). Different levels of gun ownership/licenses and what models you can purchase for hunting, home/business security, wild animal control (ranchers/farmers),historical collectors, marksmen, etc. Reasonable people with nothing to hide, unlike the criminals, NRA/gun manufacturing lobbyists and psychos out there, should be able to agree on reasonable solutions. Doing nothing like we’ve been doing is not a solution.

I also want to give pause, in the unlikely event, to our political/military leaders, if they decide to unilaterally cancel the Constitution/Bill Of Rights without our consent.
I personally own a 12-gauge Ithaca side-by-side shotgun for home protection, which I keep under lock & key at all times (I have a three year old grandson). Quite a few of my friends are hunters and agree that an AR-15 is useless for that purpose, unless you’re being attacked by a rampaging horde of buffalo’s. Even they agree that the NRA’s position on unfettered gun ownership in this day & age is not reasonable and cancelled their membership.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Not much of a banner-waver here personally … I do vote in every election though as an Independent … but to answer your question. I responded to you back on 2/26/18 on the subject.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-nra-owns-trump-as-well.110561/page-10#post-1235460

We should be able to engineer our way out of this. Logic says that the more guns there are out there, then more than likely a crime is going to occur. If data integration was allowed … IT IS NOT … between gun manufacturers and local/national/federal agencies and said guns are legally purchased u could more easily track a guns movement. Ban private sales like Germany does (89% gun ownership, one of the highest in the world, no assault weapons, etc.) and then you might get a better handle on things. Crimes & crimes of passion will not go away but they will be decreased. Like I said, I’m trying to engineer the problem down.

Am I right to infer that you feel the existing local/state/federal firearms controls are adequate and we’re doing just fine as is? If so, I respectfully beg to differ.

I believe in the privilege, like driving a car, to own a gun for various reasons. We can agree to disagree on whether it is a “right” like Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens did in this editorial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

As a responsible gun owner I believe that we need to streamline (data integration, etc.) and tighten things up (exhaustive background checks, there month waiting period while taking a gun safety training course, etc.). Different levels of gun ownership/licenses and what models you can purchase for hunting, home/business security, wild animal control (ranchers/farmers),historical collectors, marksmen, etc. Reasonable people with nothing to hide, unlike the criminals, NRA/gun manufacturing lobbyists and psychos out there, should be able to agree on reasonable solutions. Doing nothing like we’ve been doing is not a solution.

I also want to give pause, in the unlikely event, to our political/military leaders, if they decide to unilaterally cancel the Constitution/Bill Of Rights without our consent.
I personally own a 12-gauge Ithaca side-by-side shotgun for home protection, which I keep under lock & key at all times (I have a three year old grandson). Quite a few of my friends are hunters and agree that an AR-15 is useless for that purpose, unless you’re being attacked by a rampaging horde of buffalo’s. Even they agree that the NRA’s position on unfettered gun ownership in this day & age is not reasonable and cancelled their membership.

Not much of a banner-waver here personally … I do vote in every election though as an Independent … but to answer your question. I responded to you back on 2/26/18 on the subject.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-nra-owns-trump-as-well.110561/page-10#post-1235460
We should be able to engineer our way out of this. Logic says that the more guns there are out there, then more than likely a crime is going to occur. If data integration was allowed … IT IS NOT … between gun manufacturers and local/national/federal agencies and said guns are legally purchased u could more easily track a guns movement. Ban private sales like Germany does (89% gun ownership, one of the highest in the world, no assault weapons, etc.) and then you might get a better handle on things. Crimes & crimes of passion will not go away but they will be decreased. Like I said, I’m trying to engineer the problem down.
Am I right to infer that you feel the existing local/state/federal firearms controls are adequate and we’re doing just fine as is? If so, I respectfully beg to differ.
I believe in the privilege, like driving a car, to own a gun for various reasons. We can agree to disagree on whether it is a “right” like Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens did in this editorial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html
As a responsible gun owner I believe that we need to streamline (data integration, etc.) and tighten things up (exhaustive background checks, there month waiting period while taking a gun safety training course, etc.). Different levels of gun ownership/licenses and what models you can purchase for hunting, home/business security, wild animal control (ranchers/farmers),historical collectors, marksmen, etc. Reasonable people with nothing to hide, unlike the criminals, NRA/gun manufacturing lobbyists and psychos out there, should be able to agree on reasonable solutions. Doing nothing like we’ve been doing is not a solution.
I also want to give pause, in the unlikely event, to our political/military leaders, if they decide to unilaterally cancel the Constitution/Bill Of Rights without our consent.
I personally own a 12-gauge Ithaca side-by-side shotgun for home protection, which I keep under lock & key at all times (I have a three year old grandson). Quite a few of my friends are hunters and agree that an AR-15 is useless for that purpose, unless you’re being attacked by a rampaging horde of buffalo’s. Even they agree that the NRA’s position on unfettered gun ownership in this day & age is not reasonable and cancelled their membership.

Hammer hitting nail
On the head

 

[highfigh]

Not much of a banner-waver here personally … I do vote in every election though as an Independent … but to answer your question. I responded to you back on 2/26/18 on the subject.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-nra-owns-trump-as-well.110561/page-10#post-1235460

We should be able to engineer our way out of this. Logic says that the more guns there are out there, then more than likely a crime is going to occur. If data integration was allowed … IT IS NOT … between gun manufacturers and local/national/federal agencies and said guns are legally purchased u could more easily track a guns movement. Ban private sales like Germany does (89% gun ownership, one of the highest in the world, no assault weapons, etc.) and then you might get a better handle on things. Crimes & crimes of passion will not go away but they will be decreased. Like I said, I’m trying to engineer the problem down.

Am I right to infer that you feel the existing local/state/federal firearms controls are adequate and we’re doing just fine as is? If so, I respectfully beg to differ.

I believe in the privilege, like driving a car, to own a gun for various reasons. We can agree to disagree on whether it is a “right” like Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens did in this editorial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

As a responsible gun owner I believe that we need to streamline (data integration, etc.) and tighten things up (exhaustive background checks, there month waiting period while taking a gun safety training course, etc.). Different levels of gun ownership/licenses and what models you can purchase for hunting, home/business security, wild animal control (ranchers/farmers),historical collectors, marksmen, etc. Reasonable people with nothing to hide, unlike the criminals, NRA/gun manufacturing lobbyists and psychos out there, should be able to agree on reasonable solutions. Doing nothing like we’ve been doing is not a solution.

I also want to give pause, in the unlikely event, to our political/military leaders, if they decide to unilaterally cancel the Constitution/Bill Of Rights without our consent.
I personally own a 12-gauge Ithaca side-by-side shotgun for home protection, which I keep under lock & key at all times (I have a three year old grandson). Quite a few of my friends are hunters and agree that an AR-15 is useless for that purpose, unless you’re being attacked by a rampaging horde of buffalo’s. Even they agree that the NRA’s position on unfettered gun ownership in this day & age is not reasonable and cancelled their membership.

Why is it, that very few people seem to want to admit that people are the whole problem? You, and millions of other gun owners, haven't gone on a shooting rampage, but there are so many who are willing to kill without pausing to think about what they're doing or they snap and let 'er rip. You made a lot of sense in the paragraph where you say you want to streamline and tighten things up- I think it would be a good idea to have levels of ownership and require training but the waiting period and all of the rest will only affect legal gun owners because AR-style weapons aren't used often in the shootings where it's possessed illegally. I WANT people to be able to hit what's in the sights- there are too many people being hit by crossfire but again, not in the daily lives of legal gun owners.

To really make a dent in the daily killings, I think there's only one way to find out who has what and that's not going to be seen as anything other than government overreach because Constitutionalists will see it as racist and as violations of the 4th and 6th Amendments, at the very least.

The majority of daily shooting victims and shooters know each other. and have had contact with law enforcement in the past. Those facts say a lot- jail and prison are a place where criminals go, they aren't seen as a punishment and in fact, they add 'street cred' to those who are sentenced to incarceration.

We need to change the mind set that being bad is cool, end 'snitches get stitches' and get kids to stay in school, adding more conflict resolution to their curriculum. I'm not saying we need to coddle the kids and make them hug & sing Kumbaya every morning, but we need to end the violence. Hard to do when people are desperate, though.

There's one way to suspend the Constitution and that's through enacting martial law, which can be imposed by the governor of a state or POTUS. With so many elected officials being more concerned with re-election than actually doing something constructive, I don't see this happening soon.

To your point about the usefulness of an AR15, I'm not sure how it can be considered 'useless' when so many relatively large critters (people) have been killed by them. A hoard of buffalo will stomp someone into the ground before someone with an AR15 can inflict much damage- it's basically a .22 with more powder behind it. I agree that the NRA has left the rails and needs new leadership- Charleton Heston and his 'cold, dead hands' speech just riled everyones' blood and too many members are gung ho, rather than sensible.

As I have posted and said before, very few people actually need the guns they own and are allowed to own. They perceive the need, but mostly, they only want the guns.

 

[highfigh]

Sorry, guy. It ain't gonna happen. The damage has already been done.

What you're seeing is the ultimate temper tantrum thrown by spoiled little bitches who probably got whatever they wanted from mommy and daddy by holding their breath crying, and stomping their feet and when they find out the world isn't gonna play their game, they lash out and try to hurt as many people as possible.

Oh, they are clever and they will find a way to get a weapon, trust me, Taking mine away won't stop them. ...but, the right guy with a legal gun of their own might be able to minimize the damage they cause.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/03/10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter/

It's too bad the cop who pulled Ator over couldn't have stopped him, but he was the first to be shot. Maybe rural Police Departments need to go to crews of two, like they do in cities.

I just read that he was fired hours before the rampage- the link I posted a while back that shows the mass killings since 1982 shows that most occurred at the shooter's place of work- I think employers need to know about this and handle firing people differently, possibly involving law enforcement if the person is known to have a bad temper or if they have been violent.

 

[markw]

It's too bad the cop who pulled Aton over couldn't have stopped him, but he was the first to be shot. Maybe rural Police Departments need to go to crews of two, like they do in cities.

I hear ya but if the police have their guns drawn when they pull people over, the liberals will throw a poop fit. They can't win for losing. That crew of two isn't a bad idea but, even then, one would have had to have their gun drawn and aimed. Same poop storm..

 

[Trell]

I hear ya but if the police have their guns drawn when they pull people over, the liberals will throw a poop fit. They can't win for losing. That crew of two isn't a bad idea but, even then, one would have had to have their gun drawn and aimed. Same poop storm..

I think the police should just draw their guns, start shooting and ask questions later.

 

[highfigh]

I hear ya but if the police have their guns drawn when they pull people over, the liberals will throw a poop fit. They can't win for losing. That crew of two isn't a bad idea but, even then, one would have had to have their gun drawn and aimed. Same poop storm..

Even if another officer didn't have their gun drawn, they would be able to fire in a couple of seconds.

 

[Trell]

Even if another officer didn't have their gun drawn, they would be able to fire in a couple of seconds.

If I understand you correctly, in two seconds an officer should do the following?

1. Get an overview of the situation
2. Observe something threatening
3. Make a decision that drawing a gun is warranted
4. Draw the gun
5. Aim the gun
6. Make a decision whether or not innocents could be harmed by shooting
7. Make the decision to either fire the gun or give warning or do something else

Seems to me that must be a highly trained officer to manage these steps in just two seconds, or am I wrong? The reaction time for a driver to brake is at best 0.7 seconds with an average of 2.3 seconds, and I bet that most drivers could put the foot on the brake much faster than an officer doing step 4 and 5 above.

https://copradar.com/redlight/factors/

 

[mtrycrafts]

If I understand you correctly, in two seconds an officer should do the following?

1. Get an overview of the situation
2. Observe something threatening
3. Make a decision that drawing a gun is warranted
4. Draw the gun
5. Aim the gun
6. Make a decision whether or not innocents could be harmed by shooting
7. Make the decision to either fire the gun or give warning or do something else

Seems to me that must be a highly trained officer to manage these steps in just two seconds, or am I wrong? The reaction time for a driver to brake is at best 0.7 seconds with an average of 2.3 seconds, and I bet that most drivers could put the foot on the brake much faster than an officer doing step 4 and 5 above.

https://copradar.com/redlight/factors/

Robocop!

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been locked, considering the threats and insults that have been flying around. The dissension reminds me of the scene with picket lines outside the White House from the movie "Seven Days in May". Thankfully there aren't any wooden picket signs in a forum thread.