No thoughts and prayers today?

[RichB]

All I'm hearing here is roadblocks and looking for a complete cure. There is no complete cure. Crimes of passion, criminal activity, etc. aren't magically going to disappear.

I'm just trying to engineer the problem down, like other countries have. Less guns, less killings; a proven fact, the world over. Why is that so hard to understand?

I'm a gun owner myself but I'm not hunting down Bambi with a modified AR-15, not if I want some deer meat leftover to grill, instead of the cartridges.

Bambi thanks you.

Once your done with "assault weapons" you can move on to assault knives which are the weapon of choice in London.
The mayor banned assault knives, whatever that is. I guess your all set if you are wearing a chefs hat.

In the US, more people are killed with hammers than AR15's. Clearly we need common sense hammer reform.

As of August 12'th, 330 people killed in Chicago:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-homicides-data-tracker-htmlstory.html
AR15 bans and background checks are not going to help Chicago.
Actually enforcing enhanced sentences for commuting crimes with the guns, would be a good start.
Federal laws are being ignored.

Why not hold officials responsible for not enforcing the existing laws. That would be interesting.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

Bambi thanks you.



In the US, more people are killed with hammers than AR15's. Clearly we need common sense hammer reform.

Not really https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-more-people-are-murdered-with-hammers-than-guns-in-the-US

 

[RichB]

Not really https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-more-people-are-murdered-with-hammers-than-guns-in-the-US

From the article:

“The AR-15 … is used less times per year to kill people than hammers and fists are used to kill people,” he tweeted.

Verdict: True

The FBI reports that more people are killed each year using blunt objects or “personal weapons” (fists, hands or feet) than are killed using rifles. Rifles are used in a small fraction of gun homicides.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

From the article:


- Rich

You said nothing about fists....or the other blunt objects, just hammers. Were they $10k pentagon hammers?

 

[Ponzio]

Bambi thanks you.

And the NRA thanks you.

 

[sterling shoote]

And how would you determine who's mentally 'fit' & who's not, especially in light of the fact that the firearm application has one whole question regarding mental health and HIPAA prevents access to that info without jumping through a lot of hoops? How would you know if a straw sale is being transacted? Do you expect people who would commit that particular crime to suddenly grow a conscience and obey the law?

I sold firearms for an FFL Holder for 14 years. NICS/State Police identify Mental Defectives from court findings. Straw Purchasers are discerned by State Police from FFL holders reporting multiple handgun sales to a buyer on multiple occasions within a 7 day period and by serial # trace to buyer from recovered gun used in a crime. Some courts do not properly submit mental defective proclamations to NICS and the FBI does not it appears prosecute some Straw Purchasors.

 

[Ponzio]

Some courts do not properly submit mental defective proclamations to NICS and the FBI does not in many cases prosecute Straw Purchasors.

Well that makes me feel better.

 

[sterling shoote]

Well that makes me feel better.

Back a few years ago the FFL Holder I worked for noticed a family had a fondness for Beretta M92's and M9's. Since these purchases seemed as if they could be straw purchases the FFL Holder called the ATF. As I understand it their investigation lead to arrest of the "crime family".

 

[panteragstk]

Bleeding heart and guilt-ridden it might be, but also based on real statistics. You may have missed the tongue-in-cheek aspect of my comment about being born to the "right" parents, which could be read as "affluent" parents. One thing you are correct about though - it's not society's fault. Fault rests with the 10%-ers who have stacked the deck in their favour. Perhaps not as individuals, or in a conscious effort to keep the plebes down, but nevertheless, socio-economic mobility is, and has been, dropping. Not just in America, either. The only other explanation would be that the 90%-ers have gotten stupider and/or lazier. I doubt that's the case.

It's quite clear that we aren't going to find common ground on this topic, so in the interest of maintaining the peace, we may have to let it drop.

I've posted it before, but you do realize that the top "10%ers" in this country are the ones that have a household income of over $110k per year right? That's not exactly a yacht owning crowd, but they're doing fine. Hell, that's the poverty line in San Francisco.

I'm in that club and I don't control a damn thing other than what I decide to do. If I could stack the deck, nobody told me where the cards are.

My parents taught me to think for myself and work hard and it will pay off. They were right. My dad never made over $60k all his life. He could have if he went into corporate, but he chose to stay government. Good for him. Good pension and a 401k combine get him 80% of his pay until he dies. Can't complain.

 

[panteragstk]

Getting back to the original subject, some aren't gonna like this at all.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/second-amendment-gun-control-red-flag-jim-demint

There's nothing to like about this. It's true. That's it. Yes, perfect gun control would keep weapons out of the wrong people's hands, but we have a weird culture thing that makes people think that shooting someone is the only choice. We fix that, and we solve a lot of our problem.

 

[lovinthehd]

There's nothing to like about this. It's true. That's it. Yes, perfect gun control would keep weapons out of the wrong people's hands, but we have a weird culture thing that makes people think that shooting someone is the only choice. We fix that, and we solve a lot of our problem.

How the heck do you fix the "shooting someone is the only choice" when that's sort of a national mission?

 

[panteragstk]

I sold firearms for an FFL Holder for 14 years. NICS/State Police identify Mental Defectives from court findings. Straw Purchasers are discerned by State Police from FFL holders reporting multiple handgun sales to a buyer on multiple occasions within a 7 day period and by serial # trace to buyer from recovered gun used in a crime. Some courts do not properly submit mental defective proclamations to NICS and the FBI does not it appears prosecute some Straw Purchasors.

Where have you been for this discussion? Your knowledge could help a lot with keeping the truth to what is and isn't legal in check.

What are your thoughts on a national purchaser database for guns? Wouldn't you think that would be an important thing to have? Especially in the case you paid out in your other post.

 

[panteragstk]

How the heck do you fix the "shooting someone is the only choice" when that's sort of a national mission?

That's the problem. Why do people think this way? What the hell are we teaching that makes this the logic people use? It baffles me.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I've posted it before, but you do realize that the top "10%ers" in this country are the ones that have a household income of over $110k per year right? That's not exactly a yacht owning crowd, but they're doing fine. Hell, that's the poverty line in San Francisco.

I'm in that club and I don't control a damn thing other than what I decide to do. If I could stack the deck, nobody told me where the cards are.

My parents taught me to think for myself and work hard and it will pay off. They were right. My dad never made over $60k all his life. He could have if he went into corporate, but he chose to stay government. Good for him. Good pension and a 401k combine get him 80% of his pay until he dies. Can't complain.

The 10%-ers referred to in the linked article concern wealth, not income.

"As of 2016, it took $1.2 million in net worth to make it into the 9.9 percent; $2.4 million to reach the group’s median; and $10 million to get into the top 0.9 percent. (And if you’re not there yet, relax: Our club is open to people who are on the right track and have the right attitude.) “We are the 99 percent” sounds righteous, but it’s a slogan, not an analysis. The families at our end of the spectrum wouldn’t know what to do with a pitchfork."

 

[sterling shoote]

Where have you been for this discussion? Your knowledge could help a lot with keeping the truth to what is and isn't legal in check.

What are your thoughts on a national purchaser database for guns? Wouldn't you think that would be an important thing to have? Especially in the case you paid out in your other post.

A national data base would need to be legislated but it would essentially only be useful for firearms tracing and that's already in place, since FFL Holders must retain 4473's. If a firearm is recovered from a crime scene the serial # is read from the firearm and the manufacturer of the firearm is called and must identify the distributor, the distributor is called and must identify the dealer, the dealer is called and must id the buyer. The buyer is called and must identify his buyer. Now, a sidebar, about me and firearms which began before I was born. Back in 1903 President Theodore Roosevelt signed the National Defense Act of 1903. Part of that act required the Army to provide marksmanship training to interested Citizens. This was seen as needed to have a Nation of Marksmen should the Country be mobilized for war. After all, marksmanship cannot be developed without training or practice. At any rate, in 1922 this program was expanded, again by Federal Law, allowing Civilians to compete in the Military's National Service Rifle Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio. This made it possible for Civilians to test and celebrate their marksmanship skill along side Soldiers. Moving forward, in 1956 President Eisenhower established the United States Army Marksmanship Unit by Executive Action to have a US National Team to compete in international marksmanship competitions. Later the USAMU was charged with training interested Civilians in how to shoot the US Service Rifle and this was accomplished within context of an event called Small Arms Firing School. This is where I come in. I attended one of those events, learned basic marksmanship and later, years later, became a champion US Service Rifle shooter, earning the highest Military Award for Excellence In Competition, the US Distinguished Rifleman Badge (using rifle shown). This and other credentials got me an invitation from the USAMU to assist them deliver Squad Designated Marksman training to Soldiers. That program trained over 2700 Soldiers. So, where is this all going. In 1903 the US Service Rifle was the 1903 Springfield, later it was the M1 Garrand, then the M14, and now the M16-A4. The AR-15 is the Civilian legal version of that rifle and I think every US Citizen should be able to

own one and learn how to shoot it, just as President Roosevelt thought back in 1903, simply because you never know when this Country might need Marksmen, a lot of them, which the Army can not train in just a few weeks of basic training. It's the right thing to do when this Country might send them onto a battlefield.

 

[highfigh]

There's nothing to like about this. It's true. That's it. Yes, perfect gun control would keep weapons out of the wrong people's hands, but we have a weird culture thing that makes people think that shooting someone is the only choice. We fix that, and we solve a lot of our problem.

Like these?

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2019/08/31/milwaukee-homicide-woman-killed-after-confronting-driver-following-crash/2177481001/

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2019/08/31/milwaukee-homicide-man-killed-during-home-invasion/2177539001/

People are failing to raise their kids to contribute to society in a positive way. They're failing to teach them to obey laws, have a conscience and as I posted before, to value life and respect the rights of others to be left the eff alone. I have no doubt that the shooter in the traffic incident will say "She disrespected me" after they're arrested. When people are told that something is illegal and their response is "It ain't MY law", it shows that they weren't taught my intelligent beings- more likely they were raised by people whose grudge against society overtook their sense of humanity.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Like these?

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2019/08/31/milwaukee-homicide-woman-killed-after-confronting-driver-following-crash/2177481001/

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2019/08/31/milwaukee-homicide-man-killed-during-home-invasion/2177539001/

People are failing to raise their kids to contribute to society in a positive way. They're failing to teach them to obey laws, have a conscience and as I posted before, to value life and respect the rights of others to be left the eff alone. I have no doubt that the shooter in the traffic incident will say "She disrespected me" after they're arrested. When people are told that something is illegal and their response is "It ain't MY law", it shows that they weren't taught my intelligent beings- more likely they were raised by people whose grudge against society overtook their sense of humanity.

Good insight, but until you address the “why”, nothing will change.
If you are correct in your analysis then you have to ask, “ why do so many people have a grudge against society?”

 

[panteragstk]

Good insight, but until you address the “why”, nothing will change.
If you are correct in your analysis then you have to ask, “ why do so many people have a grudge against society?”

Because for so many life in this country is pretty easy and we don't have a lot to worry about (big picture stuff like what Venezuela is going through) so they have to find something to be upset about.

Like the people who send bands death threats because their album got delayed. That person isn't equiped to deal with an actual problem.

 

[RichB]

Because for so many life in this country is pretty easy and we don't have a lot to worry about (big picture stuff like what Venezuela is going through) so they have to find something to be upset about.

Like the people who send bands death threats because their album got delayed. That person isn't equiped to deal with an actual problem.

Many are angry but have not identified the cause.
Many university students are upset by the college debt they are incurring, for good reason.
Universities have an endless appetited for cash and no regard for the debt and hardship placed on the students they profess to care about.
They send their lobbyists to Washington to demand more cash. For students, they push socialism to make and the forgiveness of debt.
They are masters of redirection.

Real solutions are ignored:

- Require universities to co-sign loans. If you educate students with useless degrees, you bear the cost.
- Get government out of the student loan business. They are not good at it.
- Allow student loans to be cancelled by bankruptcy. Why not?

Culturally, we must understand the difference with gaining skills training and credentials.
We have a system that requires credentials and increasingly provides little or no skills. It's a recipe for disaster.

For those who want to socialize education, I'll buy into your plan so long as professors are paid government scale.
Let's see how these socialist loving professors making 6 and 7 figure incomes feel about it when discover their new pay scale

- Rich

 

[sterling shoote]

No moral compass is the condition which fuels gun violence. It effected me about a decade ago. I was teaching 3rd grade. One of my students refused to comply with my instruction for him to take a seat. Not wanting to bring more attention to this disturbance, I had the school's security person remove the student from the class, since the student would not leave class without physical force. As the student was forced out, he said he was going to come back the next day and kill me. I told him that I would not be at school on Saturday. He then said, "Monday". I said, "No, you won't likely be back here until next Thursday". Then I asked, "how you gonna do it, how are you going to kill me, Davon". He said his brother had a gun. Well, knowing that this would be my last day of teaching because this kid would kill me if he could, I said, "thanks Devon, I don't want to bring a knife to a gun fight". His response was it was illegal for me to bring a gun to school. Yeah, he had already contemplated I would be unarmed. At any rate, I knew the scenario would be something like him pulling a pistol out of his backpack and shooting me at close range, then taking his seat becoming tranquil like he never pulled the trigger. I imagined that later the student's grandmother would likely be interviewed by the local news, heard to say, "my grandson's a good boy". At any rate, I quit. That was it for me, all down the drain for one kid who did not have any sort of understanding about life, and, if he's alive today, living the gangster life, he probably still does not have a moral compass. It's what happens when God is not in a child's life.