No thoughts and prayers today?

[panteragstk]

Not-for-profit has no correlation with being grossly over paid. Patrick Kennedy (you know the family ),paid himself $600,000 a year for his service to his government funded non-profit Citizens Energy. That does not include other perks, trips, cars etc.

Attempts can be made to regulate, limit administrators and such but I am not in favor of any of it because it does not work. Only the free market works which means reducing government involvement. Once you do that, innovation will occur as well.

Our government has fed the beast and it is a bloated greedy pig. I read a stat that for every $1 the government funds education the price increased by 60 cents. In the Mass higher education system the number of >$200K administrators, deans, provosts is greater than the number of educators.

- Rich

I'm not so much concerned with overpaid college employees so much as students paying too much for their education. Sure, they're related, but there are other ways to pay these people. That pay should also be reasonable.

 

[GO-NAD!]

This is something I just don't think people understand. Minimum wage is intended for entry level, mostly totally inexperienced workers. If you are 40 years old and still make minimum wage, then you have made some bad decisions along the way, or are in such a crap situation that moving somewhere new and living in your car when you were younger would have been better for you than working for such little money for so long. This obviously is different for everyone, but, as said, minimum wage isn't for people to live off of their entire life.

If we take the minimum wage and double it, what will that do for people already making $15/hr? Do they get double their pay too? No? How is that fair? People that worked their way up get punished and people that were satisfied with the bare minimum get rewarded. It is still very much possible to work your way up in companies. I did it. I know plenty of people that have done it. If you work in a job for 20 years and are still in an entry level position then it's probably not the company, and if it is, you should have quit ages ago.

Your understanding of the rational for the minimum wage doesn't jive with my understanding. Campaigning for a minimum wage began over a century ago because of the pitiful pay and poor working conditions in sweat shops. In the modern context, with offshoring of decent paying manufacturing jobs, many of these workers end up in poor paying service jobs.

Of course, circumstances vary so much that it's difficult to peg what a "proper" minimum wage should be. My daughter is working as a summer camp counsellor and with the hours she punches, she effectively earns way less than minimum wage. However, as far as I'm concerned, the experience in leading younger kids, the skills she will gain, as well as her own character development, more than make up for that. But, she has the luxury of having parents who can afford to pay for her post-secondary education (far less expensive in Canada than the US). Whereas, if she needed to earn as much as possible to get herself through school, she would probably have to be more choosy about summer jobs.

As for whether self-supporting adults having to work a minimum wage job to survive - there, but for the grace of God, go you or I.

 

[panteragstk]

Your understanding of the rational for the minimum wage doesn't jive with my understanding. Campaigning for a minimum wage began over a century ago because of the pitiful pay and poor working conditions in sweat shops. In the modern context, with offshoring of decent paying manufacturing jobs, many of these workers end up in poor paying service jobs.

Of course, circumstances vary so much that it's difficult to peg what a "proper" minimum wage should be. My daughter is working as a summer camp counsellor and with the hours she punches, she effectively earns way less than minimum wage. However, as far as I'm concerned, the experience in leading younger kids, the skills she will gain, as well as her own character development, more than make up for that. But, she has the luxury of having parents who can afford to pay for her post-secondary education (far less expensive in Canada than the US). Whereas, if she needed to earn as much as possible to get herself through school, she would probably have to be more choosy about summer jobs.

As for whether self-supporting adults having to work a minimum wage job to survive - there, but for the grace of God, go you or I.

Good point. It's easy to forget the reason the minimum wage exists at all.

I suppose it's a failure on the part of both the employee and employer. I did say that if someone wasn't making enough they could go somewhere else, but if you think about it that person making minimum wage is somewhat getting taken advantage of. They are making the least possible amount that's legal to pay them.

Think about that. It's just like building codes. Meeting code sounds fine, but when you think about it the person building/installing whatever is literally doing the least they can, but just enough that it isn't illegal.

I don't disagree that the minimum wage should be higher, but at this point we need to look at it as a starting place for people, not something they can live off of. We do that and all that will happen is everything will go up in price. That doesn't help anyone.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Good point. It's easy to forget the reason the minimum wage exists at all.

I suppose it's a failure on the part of both the employee and employer. I did say that if someone wasn't making enough they could go somewhere else, but if you think about it that person making minimum wage is somewhat getting taken advantage of. They are making the least possible amount that's legal to pay them.

Think about that. It's just like building codes. Meeting code sounds fine, but when you think about it the person building/installing whatever is literally doing the least they can, but just enough that it isn't illegal.

I don't disagree that the minimum wage should be higher, but at this point we need to look at it as a starting place for people, not something they can live off of. We do that and all that will happen is everything will go up in price. That doesn't help anyone.

Interesting tidbit from Wikipedia:
"Using 2018 inflation-adjusted dollars, the federal minimum wage peaked at $11.79 per hour in 1968.If the minimum wage in 1968 had kept up with labor's productivity growth, it would have reached $19.33 in 2017."

 

[Phase 2]

Your understanding of the rational for the minimum wage doesn't jive with my understanding. Campaigning for a minimum wage began over a century ago because of the pitiful pay and poor working conditions in sweat shops. In the modern context, with offshoring of decent paying manufacturing jobs, many of these workers end up in poor paying service jobs.

Of course, circumstances vary so much that it's difficult to peg what a "proper" minimum wage should be. My daughter is working as a summer camp counsellor and with the hours she punches, she effectively earns way less than minimum wage. However, as far as I'm concerned, the experience in leading younger kids, the skills she will gain, as well as her own character development, more than make up for that. But, she has the luxury of having parents who can afford to pay for her post-secondary education (far less expensive in Canada than the US). Whereas, if she needed to earn as much as possible to get herself through school, she would probably have to be more choosy about summer jobs.

As for whether self-supporting adults having to work a minimum wage job to survive - there, but for the grace of God, go you or I.

Let's not forget, when they passed the (child) labor laws. Before there where those labor laws they would work a child for hardly nothing!! Now at 16 and above you can't work a child without some consequences. Back in the 30's they'd work a child 12+ hours! Sad that they got away with that no one would hold the greedy employer responsible.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Interesting tidbit from Wikipedia:
"Using 2018 inflation-adjusted dollars, the federal minimum wage peaked at $11.79 per hour in 1968.If the minimum wage in 1968 had kept up with labor's productivity growth, it would have reached $19.33 in 2017."

Sometimes I find the stuff in Wikipedia amusingly biased. Many minimum wage jobs are not affected by labor productivity growth, like working at a supermarket or cooking at a fast food place. It is a silly factor to inject.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Sometimes I find the stuff in Wikipedia amusingly biased. Many minimum wage jobs are not affected by labor productivity growth, like working at a supermarket or cooking at a fast food place. It is a silly factor to inject.

Wikipedia was quoting Business Insider - not Mother Jones...

 

[Irvrobinson]

Wikipedia was quoting Business Insider - not Mother Jones...

I don't care if they were quoting Paul Krugman. The Wiki author picked a quote for an agenda, and I just think it's a silly agenda.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I don't care if they were quoting Paul Krugman. The Wiki author picked a quote for an agenda, and I just think it's a silly agenda.

I think you're missing/ignoring the point that the minimum wage has shrunken over the decades, due to inflation. Do you think there should be no minimum wage at all?

 

[panteragstk]

Sometimes I find the stuff in Wikipedia amusingly biased. Many minimum wage jobs are not affected by labor productivity growth, like working at a supermarket or cooking at a fast food place. It is a silly factor to inject.

Good point. That's something I don't think people factor in at all when the minimum wage talk starts.

What job are these people actually working? If you're working at a supermarket bagging groceries at 50 then I'm sorry, something has clearly gone wrong for you. Yes, people that had factory jobs have specific skills that aren't all that important outside of a factory, but I'm willing to bet the guy with 30 years experience doing something can get a better job than bagging groceries. If the opportunities where he lives are that limited, then, as much as it would suck, he should probably move somewhere with more potential.

Towns that exist only because a single factory was keeping it afloat are going to suffer and I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about it once that single source of jobs closes down.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Good point. That's something I don't think people factor in at all when the minimum wage talk starts.

What job are these people actually working? If you're working at a supermarket bagging groceries at 50 then I'm sorry, something has clearly gone wrong for you. Yes, people that had factory jobs have specific skills that aren't all that important outside of a factory, but I'm willing to bet the guy with 30 years experience doing something can get a better job than bagging groceries. If the opportunities where he lives are that limited, then, as much as it would suck, he should probably move somewhere with more potential.

Towns that exist only because a single factory was keeping it afloat are going to suffer and I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about it once that single source of jobs closes down.

While those of us who are doing pretty well can look down on those trying to make a living on minimum wage, we shouldn't be too smug. The next few decades (perhaps just a few years) are going to be in for a shock when doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc find the job market is steadily shrinking due to the new automated and data-driven economy. Many skilled labour jobs will dry up, too.

 

[RichB]

I'm not so much concerned with overpaid college employees so much as students paying too much for their education. Sure, they're related, but there are other ways to pay these people. That pay should also be reasonable.

If you let the market forces in, these administrators get paid what their worth. Some of them in other professions.

- Rich

 

[Phase 2]

Wikipedia was quoting Business Insider - not Mother Jones...

Lolo..sweet.

 

[Phase 2]

Interesting tidbit from Wikipedia:
"Using 2018 inflation-adjusted dollars, the federal minimum wage peaked at $11.79 per hour in 1968.If the minimum wage in 1968 had kept up with labor's productivity growth, it would have reached $19.33 in 2017."

Yep, when or what presidency Nixon maybe? took us off the gold standard? The last time a dollar was really worth the paper it was printed on was back in the 60's. I could be wrong on that exact decade cause I don't feel like Googling. Than in the 80's Reagan with his tricky trickle down economics raised the debt ceiling four times, it took about 25 to 30 years for that little fiasco to come crashing down around the taxpayers that had to pick up the tab for that one.

 

[afterlife2]

The Queen passed a year ago and as a tribute here is a full rare concert from the 60's. Thank you for your gifts Aretha.

 

[afterlife2]

42 years ago The King Passed. Rare concert from the 70's:

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yep, when or what presidency Nixon maybe? took us off the gold standard? The last time a dollar was really worth the paper it was printed on was back in the 60's. I could be wrong on that exact decade cause I don't feel like Googling. Than in the 80's Reagan with his tricky trickle down economics raised the debt ceiling four times, it took about 25 to 30 years for that little fiasco to come crashing down around the taxpayers that had to pick up the tab for that one.

Here you go:

1971
No country currently backs its currency with gold, but many have in the past, including the U.S.; for half a century beginning in 1879, Americans could trade in $20.67 for an ounce of gold. The country effectively abandoned the gold standard in 1933, and completely severed the link between the dollar and gold in 1971.

 

[panteragstk]

While those of us who are doing pretty well can look down on those trying to make a living on minimum wage, we shouldn't be too smug. The next few decades (perhaps just a few years) are going to be in for a shock when doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc find the job market is steadily shrinking due to the new automated and data-driven economy. Many skilled labour jobs will dry up, too.

If I came across as looking down, that was absolutely not my intention. I started with minimum wage when I bagged groceries. I though "this sucks, I'm not going to do this long" and I didn't. Got a job doing something else that paid a bit more. It just strikes me as odd that older people have minimum wage jobs when they've lived here all their life and worked for most of it too. I guess maybe they didn't learn any sort of marketable skill, but I doubt it. It just seems like something more is going on in that situation, what it is, no idea.

I do agree that a lot of skilled labor professions are going away and that's sad. Kids have the "go to college or you won't get a good job" crammed into their head to the point that they don't even understand that there are plenty of jobs that require training, but no degree. My brother in law is a plumber. He isn't even 30 and makes over $100k a year because he's good at what he does and he's smart. He dropped out of high school and I don't know if he ever got his GED. It just wasn't for him, nothing wrong with that I guess, but it doesn't seem to have hurt him at all.

I guess that may be my point. I've just seen so many people start at the bottom and work their way out of it that I feel like anyone can. Granted, maybe not alone, but there are opportunities out there, but too many people feel like there aren't. People need to be shown what is available to them. Apprentice programs are available for lots of different skilled labor jobs. From what I know, they make more than minimum wage and require little to no experience.

 

[Phase 2]

Here you go:

1971
No country currently backs its currency with gold, but many have in the past, including the U.S.; for half a century beginning in 1879, Americans could trade in $20.67 for an ounce of gold. The country effectively abandoned the gold standard in 1933, and completely severed the link between the dollar and gold in 1971.

Nixon's administration right? Cut that chord? Seems I remember that on a televised.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Nixon's administration right? Cut that chord? Seems I remember that on a televised.

Yes. That was a complete separation. Not sure how much abandonment happened in 1933.