Debating switching from Yamaha to NAD

[Pogre]

I actually have years of experience with Marantz and only about a year with the Denon, but the set up are virtually the same.

Yeah, the menus are almost identical and so are the controllers.

 

[Verdinut]

Excellent advice, I have been doing just that for a while now. Unfortunately now I have to take it out again to measure my diy speaker.

Which drivers did you use for your DIY project?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agreed, but McIntosh is at least arguable "high end".

Do they use very expensive internal components?

McIntosh amps and preamps are very pretty to me.

 

[Verdinut]

McIntosh amps look pretty indeed but you pay for the aesthetics which have nothing to do with performance. In addition, the use of transformers in the output stage of most of their amps annuls all the advantages of the solid state circuitry. It kills the damping factor which is of utmost importance with many speakers.

 

[sakete]

McIntosh amps look pretty indeed but you pay for the aesthetics which have nothing to do with performance. In addition, the use of transformers in the output stage of most of their amps annuls all the advantages of the solid state circuitry. It kills the damping factor which is of utmost importance with many speakers.

Actually, according to Dr. Toole, damping factor makes no measurable difference with speakers. As long as it's I believe above 10 (a very very low bar), you'll be fine.

 

[Verdinut]

Actually, according to Dr. Toole, damping factor makes no measurable difference with speakers. As long as it's I believe above 10 (a very very low bar),you'll be fine.

That's inexact. If Dr Toole said that, it's because he never heard Tannoy GRF speakers driven by a SS McIntosh amp in the early 1970's. I know that a Sony SS 50 watt/ch beat the crap out of the McIntosh and made the Tannoys live in an instant with better transient response.

Possibly @TLS Guy can confirm my opinion that some speakers with a low Q need a damping factor quite higher than 10 to perform as their best.

 

[sakete]

That's inexact. If Dr Toole said that, it's because he never heard Tannoy GRF speakers driven by a SS McIntosh amp in the early 1970's. I know that a Sony SS 50 watt/ch beat the crap out of the McIntosh and made the Tannoy live in an instant.

Possibly @TLS Guy can confirm my opinion that some speakers with a low Q need a damping factor higher than 10 to perform as their best.

And that's what I said, damping factor of 10 or higher and you'll be fine. There are very few amps with a damping factor lower than 10. That 10 is a very low bar and most amps/receivers are well above that.

And Dr. Toole doesn't just say stuff, all his claims are backed by actual scientific research. Which is great, as it's objective, which is much more useful than all the subjective reviews and interpretations out there.

Here a short article on it too https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/damping-factor-effects-on-system-response

 

[Topmetom2]

Apologies I didn’t get notified of the replies? If you dont want to tinker then do not go dirac..you are forever playing what if and not enjoying the system..
I believe all Anthems apart from the avm60 are made in vietnam?
I had a mrx300 for years and was so happy, then 4k came along and bang it all went pear shaped, sold the 300 for a 7011, was ok, then sold that for the nad..ive never felt its as good....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yesterday I got a much flatter curve. And guess what? I liked it less, so I returned to my previous EQ. Time to enjoy and put the UMIK in the drawer

That has been the sentiment of many enthusiasts - flatter FR graphs don’t guarantee better sound. It can sound better, but not always.

Some proponents of Dirac say that there’s more to it (that we don’t see?) than just the FR graphs.

I’ve heard most of these Room EQ and I agree.

 

[sakete]

That has been the sentiment of many enthusiasts - flatter FR graphs don’t guarantee better sound. It can sound better, but not always.

Some proponents of Dirac say that there’s more to it (that we don’t see?) than just the FR graphs.

I’ve heard most of these Room EQ and I agree.

Apparently Dirac does something with phase correction so "... all sounds from the speakers arrive at your ear simultaneously..." or something like that. Guess I'll never know.

I probably will tinker a bit to get more bass. But lately I've been listening with YPAO Volume turned on all the time (but leaving adaptive drc off) and it does a pretty good job of ensuring there's always plenty of bass presence in the music, particularly at lower volumes. I think it's the same as Audyssey DEQ. And this is a feature the fancy schmancy NAD or Anthem wouldn't have.

 

[Deckard71]

Apparently Dirac does something with phase correction so "... all sounds from the speakers arrive at your ear simultaneously..." or something like that. Guess I'll never know.

I probably will tinker a bit to get more bass. But lately I've been listening with YPAO Volume turned on all the time (but leaving adaptive drc off) and it does a pretty good job of ensuring there's always plenty of bass presence in the music, particularly at lower volumes. I think it's the same as Audyssey DEQ. And this is a feature the fancy schmancy NAD or Anthem wouldn't have.

YPAO Volume works very well. I also leave DRC off

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Apparently Dirac does something with phase correction so "... all sounds from the speakers arrive at your ear simultaneously..." or something like that. Guess I'll never know.

I probably will tinker a bit to get more bass. But lately I've been listening with YPAO Volume turned on all the time (but leaving adaptive drc off) and it does a pretty good job of ensuring there's always plenty of bass presence in the music, particularly at lower volumes. I think it's the same as Audyssey DEQ. And this is a feature the fancy schmancy NAD or Anthem wouldn't have.

Everyone has an opinion/hypothesis/hearsay about phase correction and all things seen and unseen and how certain software do a better job.

All I know is that I don't need any EQ to get awesome crystal clear midrange and treble sound from my speakers.

But I do need EQ to get the bass I prefer (subs),even if the speakers are capable of producing "full-range" 20Hz-20kHz sound.

 

[PENG]

Do they use very expensive internal components?

McIntosh amps and preamps are very pretty to me.

I am sure they do, have only looked into certain parts used in one of their power amp, integrated and prepro and found nice OPA IC, ADC and DAC, 100 V storage caps for the PS, and didn't see any of those LSI ICs in the AVR derived/related integrated amps/preamps. I guess it is reasonable to assume in general they used good quality electronic parts. Like IRV, I don't prefer their output transformer approach. It seems like a unnecessary high cost approach to load impedance matching.

 

[Deckard71]

I am sure they do, have only looked into certain parts used in one of their power amp, integrated and prepro and found nice OPA IC, ADC and DAC, 100 V storage caps for the PS, and didn't see any of those LSI ICs in the AVR derived/related integrated amps/preamps. I guess it is reasonable to assume in general they used good quality electronic parts. Like IRV, I don't prefer their output transformer approach. It seems like a unnecessary high cost approach to load impedance matching.

The best selling McIntosh do not have output transformers, e.g. MA5200, MA5300 models

 

[PENG]

The best selling McIntosh do not have output transformers, e.g. MA5200, MA5300 models

A few of them don't but most of them do, and I am not aware of any of their newest models that don't have the so called "autoformers".

 

[Montucky]

A few of them don't but most of them do, and I am not aware of any of their newest models that don't have the so called "autoformers".

Regardless, every Mac amp I'VE ever heard sounded pretty darn good to me, so I'm not one to have a huge opinion one way or the other. Same goes for just about any higher end brand or higher end models within a brand. I just have yet to hear an expensive amp that offends me. Haha.

 

[Deckard71]

Just as an update, I have bought an Arcam AVR550 and I will compare to my Yamaha

 

[Topmetom2]

Be interesting as fallinlight has gone the other way.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just as an update, I have bought an Arcam AVR550 and I will compare to my Yamaha

We expect REW for both YPAO and Dirac.

 

[Deckard71]

Be interesting as fallinlight has gone the other way.

That’s whom I’ve bought the Arcam from