Debating switching from Yamaha to NAD

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Also, I have read lot of times these weeks that Anthem is the “best sounding receiver ever”. Even a couple of friends have claimed the same, with one of them thinking about selling his McIntosh integrated amp because the Anthem is superb with music
So he's thinking of going from McIntosh Integrated Amp to Anthem Integrated Amp?

Large grain of salt there.

These are just pure subjective opinions that can change with the wind. :D
 
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Deckard71

Junior Audioholic
So he's thinking of going from McIntosh Integrated Amp to Anthem Integrated Amp?

Large grain of salt there.

These are just pure subjective opinions that can change with the wind. :D
No, he thinks it is redundant to have an AVR for movies and an integrated amp for music. With a D/M/Y AVR he would keep the McIntosh, with the Anthem he feels it is no need
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
No, he thinks it is redundant to have an AVR for movies and an integrated amp for music. With a D/M/Y AVR he would keep the McIntosh, with the Anthem he feels it is no need
That's a common notion from audiophiles - that McIntosh and Anthem somehow sound better than D/M and Yamaha just because some people say so, not because they have better objective measurements like SNR or something. :D

People can absolutely buy what they want because at the end of the day, they have to be 100% happy with their decision.

But for debate, these are 100% pure subjective opinions, not measured facts.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Would you say it's better to go with Denon or Marantz? I can get a X6400 New for $1.5K, X6500 refurb for $1.6K, Marantz SR7012 refurb for $1K, Marantz SR7013 refurb for $1.4K.

Also, 140W vs 125W doesn't really make a big difference, right? Is the Made in Japan worth it though, should that really be higher quality? (that was the main reason I was looking at X6400/X6500).

Still debating it, and I realize Yamaha will be more reliable, but D/M aren't that unreliable either, right?

One last benefit is dimensions, the D/M equivalents are just smaller than the Yamaha. The Yamaha is very deep, which means it will not fit most TV furniture.
The Denon X8500H, X6400/6500H and Marantz 8012 are made in Japan. The X8500 is their true flag ship, the other 3 shares some schematic diagrams and parts, but the 8012 has a larger power supply (smaller than the X8500H's). As far as I can tell, all other models below those are not made in Japan. Marantz has the extra HDAM buffer stage that may or may not (depends on what you believe) help, if used as prepro.

The Marantz SR7013 was on sale here in Canada a few weeks ago for about US$899 (C$1,249),so $1.4K for a refurb is a bad deal. To me, D&M's AVRs are very reliable, I have had 4 Denon AVRs, two Marantz AVPs, one preamp and one power amp, all running fine. Also had the Yamaha RX-V659 that I gave away and the guy who got it is still using it.
 
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sakete

Audioholic
The Denon X8500H, X6400/6500H and Marantz 8012 are made in Japan. The X8500 is their true flag ship, the other 3 shares some schematic diagrams and parts, but the 8012 has a larger power supply (smaller than the X8500H's). As far as I can tell, all other models below those are not made in Japan. Marantz has the extra HDAM buffer stage that may or may not (depends on what you believe) help, if used as prepro.

The Marantz SR7013 was on sale here in Canada a few weeks ago for about US$899 (C$1199), so $1.4K for a refurb is a bad deal. To me, D&M's AVRs are very reliable, I have had 4 Denon AVRs, two Marantz AVPs, one preamp and one power amp, all running fine. Also had the Yamaha RX-V659 that I gave away and the guy who got it is still using it.
Does Made in Japan mean higher quality / more reliable, or is it all just marketing BS?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Agree, higher prices don’t necessarily mean higher end. But just based on what I READ, I see many people suffering issues with NAD AVRs, so with Arcam... and very few with Anthem. Also, I have read lot of times these weeks that Anthem is the “best sounding receiver ever”. Even a couple of friends have claimed the same, with one of them thinking about selling his McIntosh integrated amp because the Anthem is superb with music
I know what you are saying, but hearsay are not facts, and are super subjective. Sometimes all it took could be one Placebo prone fanboy to share his initial impression under certain condition, and then it got repeated enough times electronically for enough people to take it for facts. On the objective side, If you know what's inside them, and see some schematics, and bench test results, you will be saying something else now. I posted the links to Dr. Rich's article on build quality many times, and quoted what he found inside AVRs including the high price ones but did you read any of them?

If you choose to believe in hearsay instead of look at the facts and figures yourself, then nothing else can convince you otherwise. Now I would say very nice things about Anthem's lower end MCA series power amps for their light weight, quietness, good dynamic output etc., but not their AVRs, because again, they use the same and/or lower end parts than their competing models from the bigger names.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
That's a common notion from audiophiles - that McIntosh and Anthem somehow sound better than D/M and Yamaha just because some people say so, not because they have better objective measurements like SNR or something. :D

People can absolutely buy what they want because at the end of the day, they have to be 100% happy with their decision.

But for debate, these are 100% pure subjective opinions, not measured facts.
Agreed, but McIntosh is at least arguable "high end".
 
Montucky

Montucky

Full Audioholic
Does Made in Japan mean higher quality / more reliable, or is it all just marketing BS?
In general, I'd say so. However, most my Yamahas have been made in Malaysia and they've been flawless. I think what may matter more is where do the components come from versus final assembly.

I'm sure the Japanese made Denon/Marantz's are superior to the models made in China.
 
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sakete

Audioholic
I'm just going to stick with the Yamaha :) All this back and forth with shipping, exchanges, testing, bla bla bla is all just way more hassle than it's worth. Maybe I'll add an external amp + minidsp (what's a good 2ch/3ch amp?) if I think I need to improve the bass curve.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, today is the last day I could return the Yamaha if I wanted. Now I'm debating if I should switch to Denon/Marantz, since I could then use the Audyssey Editor App, which would make it easier for me to add a room curve. I'd probably go for the Denon X6400 if anything, to get the same power rating as the Yamaha A2070.

Denon/Marantz also updated their apps recently I see and they work a lot smoother now.

Worth it?
Oh really? I may give it another go then. My experience with the app was less than stellar, but working correctly it's something I'd use.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
In general, I'd say so. However, most my Yamahas have been made in Malaysia and they've been flawless. I think what may matter more is where do the components come from versus final assembly.

I'm sure the Japanese made Denon/Marantz's are superior to the models made in China.
Yes it is more about final assembly/quality control. Most if not all the components are going to be from the same place.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I know what you are saying, but hearsay are not facts, and are super subjective. Sometimes all it took could be one Placebo prone fanboy to share his initial impression under certain condition, and then it got repeated enough times electronically for enough people to take it for facts. On the objective side, If you know what's inside them, and see some schematics, and bench test results, you will be saying something else now. I posted the links to Dr. Rich's article on build quality many times, and quoted what he found inside AVRs including the high price ones but did you read any of them?

If you choose to believe in hearsay instead of look at the facts and figures yourself, then nothing else can convince you otherwise. Now I would say very nice things about Anthem's lower end MCA series power amps for their light weight, quietness, good dynamic output etc., but not their AVRs, because again, they use the same and/or lower end parts than their competing models from the bigger names.
There are a few subjects where people choose to ignore the science behind the claims and audio is definitely one of those things. Some folks get an idea in their head and empirical evidence no longer matters.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
In general, I'd say so. However, most my Yamahas have been made in Malaysia and they've been flawless. I think what may matter more is where do the components come from versus final assembly.

I'm sure the Japanese made Denon/Marantz's are superior to the models made in China.
Currently all of the lower Denon & Marantz AVRs are built in Vietnam, by subcontractor Sherwood/Inkel....

Just my $0.02.... ;)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm just going to stick with the Yamaha :) All this back and forth with shipping, exchanges, testing, bla bla bla is all just way more hassle than it's worth. Maybe I'll add an external amp + minidsp (what's a good 2ch/3ch amp?) if I think I need to improve the bass curve.
The salient thing for me these days is finding great contents to enjoy on my system.

Unless you want to get into Separates one day (Pre-pro + Amps), I think the Yamaha A2000/3000 series is as good as it gets for AVR.

Put the UMIK away, sit back, relax, get some great contents, and enjoy. :D
 
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Deckard71

Junior Audioholic
Yesterday I got a much flatter curve. And guess what? I liked it less, so I returned to my previous EQ. Time to enjoy and put the UMIK in the drawer
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Excellent advice, I have been doing just that for a while now. Unfortunately now I have to take it out again to measure my diy speaker.
Me too. I haven't had the measuring gear out since my thread on it.

I've been getting the itch tho and want to try something different. Like split the channels out from my dsp. 1 channel for both subs and 1 channel for the bass sections of my towers. LFE to the subs and the stereo signal to the bottoms of my towers. Gene does something like that. He might be running LFE to the bass sections of his towers too tho.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Yesterday I got a much flatter curve. And guess what? I liked it less, so I returned to my previous EQ. Time to enjoy and put the UMIK in the drawer
I made things nice n flat, then adjusted a nice house curve in. Much better. I think it's good to start with flat, then get your curve going. For me that just means using DEQ and bumping my sub channels a few dB.
 
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snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
The salient thing for me these days is finding great contents to enjoy on my system.

Unless you want to get into Separates one day (Pre-pro + Amps), I think the Yamaha A2000/3000 series is as good as it gets for AVR.

Put the UMIK away, sit back, relax, get some great contents, and enjoy. :D
I usually recommend Denon 4400 so Peng can help them with their setup. LOL :)

I’m very happy with my RXA2060. :)
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I usually recommend Denon 4400 so Peng can help them with their setup. LOL :)

I’m very happy with my RXA2060. :)
I actually have years of experience with Marantz and only about a year with the Denon, but the set up are virtually the same.
 
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