EQ Settings on Denon 4400 and narrowing down subs

[Steelers252006]

The Hsu VTF15h sub isn't really that cheap. It's on sale right now for $859, but there is an additional $173 shipping fee. And you can also buy an extended warranty on the amp for an additional $70. So that adds up to $1100. and if you want the real wood Rosenut finish, that's an extra $200. It's still a bargain from a performance standpoint, but all of those additional costs are built in the price of other manufacture direct sub companies. You might be able to criticize them for not putting all of their costs upfront, but their subs are the real deal.

Warranty I guess would/should be another component to factor in. SVS seems to stand behind their subs and offer sterling customer service to boot. Should I factor that into my decision as well?

 

[Steelers252006]

The Hsu VTF15h sub isn't really that cheap. It's on sale right now for $859, but there is an additional $173 shipping fee. And you can also buy an extended warranty on the amp for an additional $70. So that adds up to $1100. and if you want the real wood Rosenut finish, that's an extra $200. It's still a bargain from a performance standpoint, but all of those additional costs are built in the price of other manufacture direct sub companies. You might be able to criticize them for not putting all of their costs upfront, but their subs are the real deal.

Another question I’ve been meaning to ask you. In reading reviews on different subs sometimes I notice reviewers saying they’re not “letting this one go” and will pair it with another sub they own that is a different brand sub. Are subs more forgiving about mixing and matching?

 

[shadyJ]

Warranty I guess would/should be another component to factor in. SVS seems to stand behind their subs and offer sterling customer service to boot. Should I factor that into my decision as well?

All of these companies sell reliable products, and they all have pretty good customer service. Monoprice may be a bit different in that they are a much larger company and their customer service will not be as personalized as say SVS, Hsu, or Outlaw, but they will still take care of you. As for Hsu's extended warranty, the thing about amp failure is that it tends to happen either relatively quickly or after a long while, so I wouldn't worry about an extended warranty too much. It's more for peace of mind.

Another question I’ve been meaning to ask you. In reading reviews on different subs sometimes I notice reviewers saying they’re not “letting this one go” and will pair it with another sub they own that is a different brand sub. Are subs more forgiving about mixing and matching?

Subs can kind of be mixed and matched. You would do well to know about the sub's performance before you do that. For example, you would not want to mix ported subs with greatly differing tuning points. You generally don't want to mix subs with significantly different performance attributes. But if the subs are mostly on the same level of performance, it will not hurt to use different models in the same system.

 

[KEW]

First I calibrate using Audyssey XT32, and then use RoomEQ Wizard for further tuning using the three PEQ a SB-3000 has available. Without the SVS app the fine tuning would have been much more time consuming and inconvenient as repeatable moving two subs to get access to the controls located at the back is no fun.

Sounds like you are plenty happy with what you've got, but I know I have read about guys who had similar setups and they found that the results were better if they tuned first using the PEQ and REW, then followed with Audyssey.... so something you might try if/when you get bored.

Also, thanks for pointing out the SVS app. I have generally not been a big fan of the electronic one knob control system, but being able to make adjustments and see the display from your LP is certainly a plus!

 

[Auditor55]

Most powered subs have some form of Bass EQ Boost.

Back in the days when I owned Denon's, I would love the heck out of Dynamic EQ, which (as already mentioned) boosts the heck out of the Bass 20-80Hz.

Now that I use Yamaha (which doesn't have a Dynamic EQ feature), I have to Manually do my own Subwoofer Bass EQ boost 20-80Hz by +2dB. :d

So if you like that bass, turn on that Dynamic EQ.

Isn't dynamic eq kind of gimmicky, tantamount to bass boost buttons on cheap boom boxes and radios? It seems kind of artificial to me.

 

[Auditor55]

Audyssey Flat (or sometimes labeled music) is just that....aims at a flat frequency response. Audyssey (or reference or movie) is same except for a little roll off of the highest frequencies. The bass boost (and a bit of higher frequency boost) comes with DynamicEQ at less than reference volume (and can be adjusted via Reference Level Offset for music recordings, stock setting of 0 is for movies).

That wouldn't be bad if there was a button on remote to switch settings on the fly.

 

[Trell]

That wouldn't be bad if there was a button on remote to switch settings on the fly.

On the Denon receivers there are many more IR codes than what are available on their remotes. I use a Logitech Harmony where I've programmed soft buttons for DEQ on/off, various DEQ Level Offset, etc.

 

[PENG]

Isn't dynamic eq kind of gimmicky, tantamount to bass boost buttons on cheap boom boxes and radios? It seems kind of artificial to me.

Not gimmicky at all, my REW graphs show it does work as described by Audyssey lab. If you use D&M units that come with Audyssey, you really should have it on unless you listen to reference or near reference level all the time.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

Audyssey Labs

October 29, 2009 13:37
Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.
Audyssey Dynamic EQ is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB. However, film reference level is not always used in music or other non-film content. The Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset provides three offsets from the film level reference (5 dB, 10 dB, and 15 dB) that can be selected when the mix level of the content is not within the standard.
0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.
15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.
10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.
5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range, such as classical music.

 

[Pogre]

Did I see op has Ultra towers and a pair of Hsu's???

Nice!

 

[Auditor55]

Not gimmicky at all, my REW graphs show it does work as described by Audyssey lab. If you use D&M units that come with Audyssey, you really should have it on unless you listen to reference or near reference level all the time.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

I mostly listen to my receiver with Audyssey off. With Audyssey off you can't engage dynamic eq. MultEQ was deactivated because my music was sounding better without it, just seemed more pure and organic. MultEQ with Dynamic EQ works for movies (although extremely loud, particularly the surrounds).

 

[Auditor55]

On the Denon receivers there are many more IR codes than what are available on their remotes. I use a Logitech Harmony where I've programmed soft buttons for DEQ on/off, various DEQ Level Offset, etc.

Wow, so I would have to spend $150-200 on a Harmony remote to do what Denon should have provided on their remotes that come with the receiver.

 

[lovinthehd]

That wouldn't be bad if there was a button on remote to switch settings on the fly.

I can change settings via my remote on my several units....some take a few menus to get there, tho. Some remotes did have quick setting changes for sub level....

 

[Trell]

Wow, so I would have to spend $150-200 on a Harmony remote to do what Denon should have provided on their remotes that come with the receiver.

Denon had to make a choice of what buttons to include on their remotes and if you look at one you'll see that the remotes are filled with buttons, but apparently not the ones just you want.

On the remotes there are QuickSelect buttons that can store and recall various settings, like Audyssey on/off, so can be a work-around.

Do you even have a Denon receiver?

 

[Auditor55]

Denon had to make a choice of what buttons to include on their remotes and if you look at one you'll see that the remotes are filled with buttons, but apparently not the ones just you want.

On the remotes there are QuickSelect buttons that can store and recall various settings, like Audyssey on/off, so can be a work-around.

Do you even have a Denon receiver?

Yes I do. I will try that Quick Select button. Thanks!

 

[Auditor55]

I can change settings via my remote on my several units....some take a few menus to get there, tho. Some remotes did have quick setting changes for sub level....

Yes, Pioneer Elites were good for that.

 

[PENG]

I mostly listen to my receiver with Audyssey off. With Audyssey off you can't engage dynamic eq. MultEQ was deactivated because my music was sounding better without it, just seemed more pure and organic. MultEQ with Dynamic EQ works for movies (although extremely loud, particularly the surrounds).

That is true, though imo Audyssey did the right thing disabling it for the Audyssey off setting, in theory anyway. If you can't stand the overall EQ effects but still want to use DEQ, the best you can do is to leave Audyssey on but select L/R bypass. As for the surround effects, again, DEQ compensates the low frequency and surround effects according to their target curve to match some sort of so called psychoacoustics effects.

Personal preference is naturally a subjective thing, DEQ does have a reference offset setting to suit different tastes and film mixed, including obviously the "off" setting. Instead of turning it off you may also try reference offset -10 to see if you like it better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness

 

[Trell]

That is true, though imo Audyssey did the right thing not disabling it for the Audyssey off setting, in theory anyway. If you can't stand the overall EQ effects but still want to use DEQ, the best you can do is to leave Audyssey on but select L/R bypass. As for the surround effects, again, DEQ compensates the low frequency and surround effects according to their target curve to match some sort of so called psychoacoustics effects.

Personal preference is naturally a subjective thing, DEQ does have a reference offset setting to suit different tastes and film mixed, including obviously the "off" setting. Instead of turning it off you may also try reference offset -10 to see if you like it better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness

The non-adjustable DEQ surround level increase is what I like the least as it in my room it can be too much, at least for my preference. I do wish there was some user adjustment that could be done, apart from changing the reference level offset or manually reduce the volume for the surround speakers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The non-adjustable DEQ surround level increase is what I like the least as it in my room it can be too much, at least for my preference. I do wish there was some user adjustment that could be done, apart from changing the reference level offset or manually reduce the volume for the surround speakers.

This has always been a frustration of Deq for me too. I’ve experimented with it in the past but now just leave it off. Something else I learned, is that Deq doesn’t do anything to the top front speakers, maybe top rears. (Damn, can’t remember now. Ugh) How dumb is that?

 

[Auditor55]

That is true, though imo Audyssey did the right thing not disabling it for the Audyssey off setting, in theory anyway. If you can't stand the overall EQ effects but still want to use DEQ, the best you can do is to leave Audyssey on but select L/R bypass. As for the surround effects, again, DEQ compensates the low frequency and surround effects according to their target curve to match some sort of so called psychoacoustics effects.

Personal preference is naturally a subjective thing, DEQ does have a reference offset setting to suit different tastes and film mixed, including obviously the "off" setting. Instead of turning it off you may also try reference offset -10 to see if you like it better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness

I just recently downloaded the Audyssey app. I have been listening with Dynamic EQ on, I'm starting to come around to what I'm hearing. I just have to switch between setting between 0 and 5 when watching movies and listening to music, that's why I was wondering about a quick switch on the remote.

 

[Pogre]

I just recently downloaded the Audyssey app. I have been listening with Dynamic EQ on, I'm starting to come around to what I'm hearing. I just have to switch between setting between 0 and 5 when watching movies and listening to music, that's why I was wondering about a quick switch on the remote.

You can even set it to -15. That really dials down the effect. Like you, I found that 0 for some and -5 for others works best for me too.