Rookie here...

[Zedturbo]

I don't wish to suggest one path or another. Each has merit.

When you do upgrade make sure that you do so with a view to increasing performance, not necessarily bigger watts, higher cost, or larger size. Examine specs (and understand what they mean and how they re used/abused), read reviews, and audition.

Shop for what you want/need, instead of going into a place (particularly a big box store) and having a salesperson tell you what you want/need. Don't narrow your thinking because that's what Costco, Sam's Club, etc. carries.

You can do this right once, or wrong many times.

Thank you. I'm doing as much research as possible w/o trying to get in over my head. I don't want to "waste" money so trying to look for higher end equipment that I will not grow out of but still trying to use my existing speakers

 

[GrimSurfer]

Thank you. I'm doing as much research as possible w/o trying to get in over my head. I don't want to "waste" money so trying to look for higher end equipment that I will not grow out of but still trying to use my existing speakers

Right! That's where quality comes into play. It doesn't have to have a million watts, but does need to have the capacity to operate reasonably independent of load with a highly accurate and faithful signal.

This reminds me of an old military saying, "amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics". More on this later...

After 50W RMS per channel (for all driven channels),my eyes glaze over. I want to know current limits, distortion figures, IM distortion specs, linearity, slew rate, overhead, output at 8/4/2 ohms. Why? Because the ability to deliver and sustain 50W per channel (all channels driven) through reasonably efficient speakers coupled to a few powered subs can shake any medium to large room better than 200 unreliable or unsustainable watts.

So back to the quote...

Suitability of service for new a carrier isn't a function of the length of the ship or the number of aircraft it carries. It's about sensor range, undersea, surface, and air warfare capability in day/night/all weather conditions, deck cycle rate, damage control, underway replenishment capacity, crew size and proficiency, defensive weaponry, strike weaponry, and a whole host of other things that lie beyond a single data point. (Old navy guy talking here)

The people who restrict their thinking to watts and channels aren't doing themselves a great service.

 

[Zedturbo]

Right! That's where quality comes into play. It doesn't have to have a million watts, but does need to have the capacity to operate reasonably independent of load with a highly accurate and faithful signal.

This reminds me of an old military saying, "amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics". More on this later...

After 50W RMS per channel (for all driven channels),my eyes glaze over. I want to know current limits, distortion figures, IM distortion specs, linearity, slew rate, overhead, output at 8/4/2 ohms. Why? Because the ability to deliver and sustain 50W per channel (all channels driven) through reasonably efficient speakers coupled to a few powered subs can shake any medium to large room better than 200 unreliable or unsustainable watts.

Much in the same way of assessing a carrier's combat capability isn't a function of the length of the ship or the number of aircraft it carries. It's about sensor range, undersea warfare capability, day/night all weather capability, deck cycle rate, damage control, underway replenishment capacity, crew proficiency, defensive weapons, strike weapons, and a whole host of other things that lie beyond a single data point. (Old navy guy talking here)

I hear ya! Completely understand it's quality over quantity so to be honest, after all this feedback and different opinions, I'm lost lol

 

[Zedturbo]

This is a very true statment.


Getting better electronics can make you current speakers shine, not as much as a speaker and electronics upgrade. If thats unaffordable just now, getting some new electronics can be a good idea if you like the sound you already have and want a little sound upgrade in addition to newer features like 4k.
New speakers or subs can come later if you feel you need it. New better speakers on older electronics you are not happy with anymore is not a great option, unless its for a short period.




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I will def upgrade my sub regardless being that it's only a 10" but as far as the towers, center, and rears, they seem to crank when I want them too so I will start with electronics and see where I end up. Thank you!

 

[GrimSurfer]

I hear ya! Completely understand it's quality over quantity so to be honest, after all this feedback and different opinions, I'm lost lol

One easy way out is as follows:

1. Define the average sound pressure level you need/want at your planned listening distance. Add ~3-4 dB for overhead;

2. Use a reasonable figure like 87 dB/W/m to work out how many watts you actually need to achieve the spl you calculated at step one. Consider that those watts should be continuous or RMS at 4 ohms unclipped or 1% distortion... not peak or 10% distortion any other such nonsense.

3. The resulting wattage will be more than you may usually need because it does not account for the fact that you'll be seeing more spl from multiple drivers. But it does allow ample room for overhead for things like waking the neighbors, scaring pets and small children, and impressing friends.

4. After that, it's just a matter of defining the features you want and how much you're able to pay to get the lowest distortion, best linearity and slew rate, warranty, etc..

I put it in that order because an amp/AVR's primary purpose is to provide gain. If it can't do this right, everything else becomes academic.

You could work backwards from the speakers too, as long as you realize that to be on the safest side possible (avoid the possibility of clipping) the amp/AVR you eventually buy should at least meet or exceed the maximum power handling of the speakers.

Regardless, it will illustrate how few watts you actually need. This is an important point because it dispenses with the bull$hit at an early part of the discussion.

This isn't the sort of advice you get at BestBuy, Sam's etc. It's certainly not the final word on how to sort through the haze either. Others may offer equally useful methods. I just happen to offer this method because it starts by defining the sound pressure you want before moving on to qualitative issues that are easy enough to read and understand from a spec sheet.

Oh, BTW, people who start you down the path with regard to a certain manufacturer or model without going through the math are asking you to make the same mistakes they may have already committed or averted thru dumb luck. Why? Because their use may not be the same as your use... unless they run the numbers first to confirm. That's the benefit of a method... it leads to tailored outcomes and gives you the benefit of considering each step and determine what's right on your own.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well .... That's the thing. I was in no way shape or form ready to overhaul the entire home theater system. I was just the leaning towards upgrading my home receiver at first to just have multiple 4K pass-through ports and at the same time maybe upgrade 2 higher power just because. then I started reading about separates being the way to go so no, to answer your question, I wasn't really setting a budget for new speakers as well.

Separates have their allure. Pride of ownership is a big one. I've own separates for the longest time and still own separates.

There are many threads debating Separates vs AVR.

There are some very respected long-time knowledgeable members who love separates and abhor AVRs.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-separates-vs-avr-thread.110901/

Personally, even though I own separates now and have owned separates for most of my life, I would take the Yamaha RX-A3080 over the Marantz AV7705 + MM705. I would take the Yamaha CX-A5200 + MX-A5200 over all of them. But as @Phase 2 says, that would cost you a few dollars more.

You've heard arguments from both sides. But at the end of the day, there is no right or wrong. You could probably get the Marantz AV7705 + MM7055 for $2,600 and keep your current speaker system. If your speakers sound great to you, there is no reason to change them.

 

[lovinthehd]

You are def right. The electronics, at that point, will exceed the value of my speakers due to the fact that mine were purchased quite a while ago being the first series. Are you referring to potentially upgrading to the most recent Klipsch Reference III or an entirely different brand? I wasn't really trying to upgrade the entire system but more so just moving into the 4k world with some added perks. Hence the separates with existing speakers.

An alternate is to get an upper line avr with a full set of pre-outs so you have amplification options; they can work quite well as a pre-pro for less $. Back to your original amp choices, I'd lean ATI/Outlaw/Monolith (all made by ATI except for some of the lower end offerings from Outlaw) over the multich Marantz amp. I'm not particularly a Klipsch fan altho I understand the new RP series is pretty good. If I were going to spend significantly on gear I'd do speakers over electronics, altho if you're seeking 4k/Atmos type features a new avr or pre-pro can be nice. Doesn't your current avr have a full set of pre-outs? If so you could go ahead and get the significant power amp to see if it adds anything at your listening levels; I used to do the separate power amp thing for mains but no longer demand very high listening levels so a good powerful avr with decently sensitive speakers works well for me in my room.

I think a couple good subs might be another way to go to start for some immediate impact from spending.

I do have 2ch separates and think my avrs do very well within their amp sections' limits but I've never had very hard to drive low impedance speakers much either let alone the lower listening levels in my old age as I'm nicer to my ears. Do you really need additional power or would you just like to have it for the headroom or the occasional high output test session?

 

[Zedturbo]

An alternate is to get an upper line avr with a full set of pre-outs so you have amplification options; they can work quite well as a pre-pro for less $. Back to your original amp choices, I'd lean ATI/Outlaw/Monolith (all made by ATI except for some of the lower end offerings from Outlaw) over the multich Marantz amp. I'm not particularly a Klipsch fan altho I understand the new RP series is pretty good. If I were going to spend significantly on gear I'd do speakers over electronics, altho if you're seeking 4k/Atmos type features a new avr or pre-pro can be nice. Doesn't your current avr have a full set of pre-outs? If so you could go ahead and get the significant power amp to see if it adds anything at your listening levels; I used to do the separate power amp thing for mains but no longer demand very high listening levels so a good powerful avr with decently sensitive speakers works well for me in my room.

I think a couple good subs might be another way to go to start for some immediate impact from spending.

I do have 2ch separates and think my avrs do very well within their amp sections' limits but I've never had very hard to drive low impedance speakers much either let alone the lower listening levels in my old age as I'm nicer to my ears. Do you really need additional power or would you just like to have it for the headroom or the occasional high output test session?

My current Yamaha Rx-V1800 does have pre-outs, yes. My whole thought process has been to upgrade the AVR to a unit with 4k pass-through...then that snowballed into searching for a unit with more power if I'm already going to upgrade...then some say that if I'm going to already be spending money, just go with separates to future proof myself as far as if either the processor or amp go out in the new AVR, I'd be stuck having to buy another instead of just upgrading separates later if one or the other go out. They also figure that if I just choose a larger amp with a lot of headroom like the ATi 200x5, I can use that amp for any future speaker I choose later on down the road. As far as processor, I'm being recommended the Marantz AV7705. I/m also getting up there in age (41) and not trying to bust my eardrums either but every once in a while wanted to rock out on the weekends and have it sound REAL nice but also wanted movies to sound bitchin' as well. I know my Klipsch RSW10 is not large enough for the room size so I'd upgrade that after electronics too. The sub in itself has been a huge debate as well being that I was just going to go with the new Klipsch 15" but other say HSU 15" is the way to go...uhhh... who knows man. So much to choose from and don't want to break the bank

 

[GrimSurfer]

An AV controller with power amps may be the "scaleable", which is important because you have many years of listening enjoyment still ahead of you.

I can also see where 4K pass thru is important at the moment.

Have you calculated your basic spl target yet? If so, what is it?

 

[Zedturbo]

An AV controller with power amps may be the "scaleable", which is important because you have many years of listening enjoyment still ahead of you.

I can also see where 4K pass thru is important at the moment.

Have you calculated your basic spl target yet? If so, what is it?

I haven't not do I even know how lol...rookie here.

 

[GrimSurfer]

No problem. Let's start with your space where you plan to set up your system.

What are it's dimensions (length, width, height) and what is your preferred orientation (front speakers looking down the long length or across the short width)?

 

[lovinthehd]

My current Yamaha Rx-V1800 does have pre-outs, yes. My whole thought process has been to upgrade the AVR to a unit with 4k pass-through...then that snowballed into searching for a unit with more power if I'm already going to upgrade...then some say that if I'm going to already be spending money, just go with separates to future proof myself as far as if either the processor or amp go out in the new AVR, I'd be stuck having to buy another instead of just upgrading separates later if one or the other go out. They also figure that if I just choose a larger amp with a lot of headroom like the ATi 200x5, I can use that amp for any future speaker I choose later on down the road. As far as processor, I'm being recommended the Marantz AV7705. I/m also getting up there in age (41) and not trying to bust my eardrums either but every once in a while wanted to rock out on the weekends and have it sound REAL nice but also wanted movies to sound bitchin' as well. I know my Klipsch RSW10 is not large enough for the room size so I'd upgrade that after electronics too. The sub in itself has been a huge debate as well being that I was just going to go with the new Klipsch 15" but other say HSU 15" is the way to go...uhhh... who knows man. So much to choose from and don't want to break the bank

I'd look at th 7ch amps for more value particularly if heading for separates, altho using a 5/7 ch amp for most demands and letting an avr fill in on surrounds is a good way to go, too. LOL getting up there in age at 41 I'm 63 this year. I wouldn't bother with Klipsch subs (and I have an old RW12d) and would look to Hsu, Rythmik, SVS, Power Sound Audio (if not Seaton, JTR & Funk) or diy. Personally I go the diy route for subs now. Multiples are nice for smoothing room modes/providing for better bass in more seats.

 

[KallyCoda]

I'd look at th 7ch amps for more value particularly if heading for separates, altho using a 5/7 ch amp for most demands and letting an avr fill in on surrounds is a good way to go, too. LOL getting up there in age at 41 I'm 63 this year. I wouldn't bother with Klipsch subs (and I have an old RW12d) and would look to Hsu, Rythmik, SVS, Power Sound Audio (if not Seaton, JTR & Funk) or diy. Personally I go the diy route for subs now. Multiples are nice for smoothing room modes/providing for better bass in more seats.

Do you need all that power for every one of those channels? I went thru the same with my Marantz SR7009 several years ago day and realized it's crazy overkill to bypass the dedicated amps for a multi-channel or combo or dual channel amps. Decided to bypass the front channel on the Triton One's with a Levinson 5802 and realized i was listening to two channel much more often. Problem is the $$$ add up way to quickly if you want to keep parity on all channels. Focus on balancing the system with some punch in the front channel and two good subs (SVS 3000 series) and you'll be good to go!

 

[GrimSurfer]

This is why I want to walk @Zedturbo through the process. It's certainly not about making him a 2 channel convert. Nor is it about getting him to buy into power he doesn't need.

I don't know where things will end up, other than a set of logical requirements which he may find useful when shopping for gear.

 

[Zedturbo]

I'd look at th 7ch amps for more value particularly if heading for separates, altho using a 5/7 ch amp for most demands and letting an avr fill in on surrounds is a good way to go, too. LOL getting up there in age at 41 I'm 63 this year. I wouldn't bother with Klipsch subs (and I have an old RW12d) and would look to Hsu, Rythmik, SVS, Power Sound Audio (if not Seaton, JTR & Funk) or diy. Personally I go the diy route for subs now. Multiples are nice for smoothing room modes/providing for better bass in more seats.

I was looking at the HSU subs too. My buddy has their 15" and it rocks the hell out if that house!

 

[KallyCoda]

Love the Hsu's. Try and Listen to SVS subs if you can. Especially the 16-Ultra series. It's incredbile. Same options with ports only you can''t plug theirs. Tough call and probably depends on sound preference. Both are awesome

 

[KallyCoda]

This is why I want to walk @Zedturbo through the process. It's certainly not about making him a 2 channel convert. Nor is it about getting him to buy into power he doesn't need.

I don't know where things will end up, other than a set of logical requirements which he may find useful when shopping for gear.

Listen to one of your favorite recordings with a solid 13.3 setup. Makes it hard to go back to 2-channel though I get it and still keep the option.

 

[KallyCoda]

My current Yamaha Rx-V1800 does have pre-outs, yes. My whole thought process has been to upgrade the AVR to a unit with 4k pass-through...then that snowballed into searching for a unit with more power if I'm already going to upgrade...then some say that if I'm going to already be spending money, just go with separates to future proof myself as far as if either the processor or amp go out in the new AVR, I'd be stuck having to buy another instead of just upgrading separates later if one or the other go out. They also figure that if I just choose a larger amp with a lot of headroom like the ATi 200x5, I can use that amp for any future speaker I choose later on down the road. As far as processor, I'm being recommended the Marantz AV7705. I/m also getting up there in age (41) and not trying to bust my eardrums either but every once in a while wanted to rock out on the weekends and have it sound REAL nice but also wanted movies to sound bitchin' as well. I know my Klipsch RSW10 is not large enough for the room size so I'd upgrade that after electronics too. The sub in itself has been a huge debate as well being that I was just going to go with the new Klipsch 15" but other say HSU 15" is the way to go...uhhh... who knows man. So much to choose from and don't want to break the bank

Have you considered two 12 inch subs? Better bass separation and directional. That one big sub can dominate the space.

 

[KallyCoda]

Listen to one of your favorite recordings with a solid 13.3 setup. Makes it hard to go back to 2-channel though I get it and still keep the option.

Sorry - 13.2...

 

[KallyCoda]

This is why I want to walk @Zedturbo through the process. It's certainly not about making him a 2 channel convert. Nor is it about getting him to buy into power he doesn't need.

I don't know where things will end up, other than a set of logical requirements which he may find useful when shopping for gear.

I think it's awesome that you're trying to help Zedturbo.