Audio terms BS and not BS

[TankTop5]

That's one apology for 3 quite rude comments. That leaves you with a deficit of two. Further apologies are not required, but your readiness to take offense has been noted by readers here.

Do not confuse real research with a Google search. One is hard – the other is simple. If you really don't know if a term is genuine or BS, a quick Google search will provide an answer. Search "high order crossover" and the first hit gives you a clear answer. Even if you don't read the entire page, you can guess that the term isn't BS. However, that does not prevent some marketer or reviewer bent on slinging BS from using this term incorrectly.

Very true on the first point, I won’t apologize further or make excuses for my behavior.

To your second point the very reason I am here and not perfecting my googlefu is to learn hopefully the right things. That said I have many more questions but I think it would be rude to continue asking questions before thoroughly reading most of the articles others have provided me. I have been interested in hi fi for a long time, poked around in some high end and extremely high end boutique shops and thought I had learned some things. Learning quickly I overestimated my knowledge of this stuff. Anyway, I started this thread to learn the vocabulary so I can quickly recognize the difference between a true review and paid for advertising, not real interested in wasting too much time reading BS thinking I learned something.


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[davidscott]

Time aligned speakers. WTF? That said the best sounding speakers I ever owned were DCM Time Windows but I'm sure it was the drivers, crossovers and design that made them so special. And they were special.

 

[TankTop5]

Time aligned speakers. WTF? That said the best sounding speakers I ever owned were DCM Time Windows but I'm sure it was the drivers, crossovers and design that made them so special. And they were special.

Funny, just heard heard something similar from a sales guy at Magnolia about Rel subs. He said Rels sound so good because the signal hit the sub and the exact same time it hits your speakers. I turned and asked him, do you mean the speed of light?


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[everettT]

So time aligned isnt real? Tell that one to designers.

 

[TLS Guy]

So time aligned isnt real? Tell that one to designers.

Well it is real, if you can make a point source without phase shift. Your voice is time aligned and for example a flute.

So yes, a good full range driver is time aligned. Things get more more opaque when you add drivers. A lot of people have put a lot of effort into time aligned speakers. That means using first order crossover where the phase shift between drivers is minimal, and trying to align the acoustic centers of the drivers.

That creates other issues. One is a lot of power out of band to drivers, especially tweeters and midranges. That also implies a risk of some degree of comb filtering. Also the driver offsets can result in diffraction problems. Then of course with spaced drivers there is just one position where the time paths really are coincident.
Lastly few recordings are time and phase coherent. I'm one of the few who made them on a regular basis.

I will say that there are definite attractive attributes to a good full ranger or very well executed speaker with time alignment playing those recordings.
So in essence their is validity, but severe issues of practicality.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I wish I knew more about crossover design. The components used to build them are pretty simple but their impact on sound can be significant...

 

[Swerd]

Very true on the first point, I won’t apologize further or make excuses for my behavior.

I'm glad you're still around .

To your second point the very reason I am here and not perfecting my googlefu is to learn hopefully the right things. That said I have many more questions but I think it would be rude to continue asking questions before thoroughly reading most of the articles others have provided me. I have been interested in hi fi for a long time, poked around in some high end and extremely high end boutique shops and thought I had learned some things. Learning quickly I overestimated my knowledge of this stuff. Anyway, I started this thread to learn the vocabulary so I can quickly recognize the difference between a true review and paid for advertising, not real interested in wasting too much time reading BS thinking I learned something.

You are always welcome to ask questions. The only dumb questions are those you don't ask.

As I see it, the trouble with making a vocabulary list of audio terms, is that high-priced dealers often misuse otherwise legit terms. For example, in wires the term "skin effect" is tossed around when they try to sell overpriced speaker cables. Wikipedia defines skin effect as:

​

the tendency of an alternating electric current (AC) to become distributed within a conductor such that the current density is largest near the surface of the conductor, and decreases with greater depths in the conductor. The electric current flows mainly at the "skin" of the conductor, between the outer surface and a level called the skin depth. … … At 60 Hz in copper, the skin depth is about 8.5 mm (0.33"). At high frequencies the skin depth becomes much smaller. Increased AC resistance due to the skin effect can be mitigated by using specially woven litz wire.​

So skin effect is real, but using it to justify high-priced speaker cable is BS. In the audio frequency range, 20 to 20,000 Hz, the skin effect is so small that it has little or no effect on the signal. In cable TV or antenna cables, where the carrier wave frequency is in the mega Hz range, skin effect is significant. But that is more than 1,000 times higher than 20,000 Hz.

 

[Ponzio]

The only dumb questions are those you don't ask.

True that! ... pardon my grammar.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Funny, just heard heard something similar from a sales guy at Magnolia about Rel subs. He said Rels sound so good because the signal hit the sub and the exact same time it hits your speakers. I turned and asked him, do you mean the speed of light?


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That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. That, my friend is why I hate going to Best Buy. You want BS? How about Best Buy, and knowledgeable sales people used in the same sentence.

https://www.tributariescable.com/docs/Glossary.pdf
It’s a little older but should give you something to chew on.
Some big red flags are like ADTG said. Terms to describe food, shouldn’t be applied to A/V. Basically be practical. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.(this kinda goes back to “chocolaty midrange” etc.) If you find some specific marketing jargon that you’re not sure about, ask away.

 

[MrBoat]

More than anything, I would be suspect of what amounts to the same shtick of purple prose used in most marketing these days. Much of which, is aimed at the mentality of a 4th grader. As soon as I see that being piled on, I lose interest in anything further the person who uses it has to say.

Secondly is, the overuse of acronyms. Some people talk face-to-face like that. As someone who had to study penmanship in school, and write "thank you" letters for birthday and Christmas presents, on top of all the handwritten subjects in school, I find this practice to be completely lazy and inconsiderate. I realize many now are "texting" from phones and such, but that is really not the whole world's problem. Not everyone needs to be well versed in the trendy jargon. Especially those who aren't planning to live in that particular field of knowledge. It's typing. The internet ink is not going to dry up or run out.

 

[GrimSurfer]

More than anything, I would be suspect of what amounts to the same shtick of purple prose used in most marketing these days. Much of which, is aimed at the mentality of a 4th grader. As soon as I see that being piled on, I lose interest in anything further the person who uses it has to say.

Secondly is, the overuse of acronyms. Some people talk face-to-face like that. As someone who had to study penmanship in school, and write "thank you" letters for birthday and Christmas presents, on top of all the handwritten subjects in school, I find this practice to be completely lazy and inconsiderate. I realize many now are "texting" from phones and such, but that is really not the whole world's problem. Not everyone needs to be well versed in the trendy jargon. Especially those who aren't planning to live in that particular field of knowledge. It's typing. The internet ink is not going to dry up or run out.

Acronyms can be fun and frustrating at the same time.

I can't count the number of times in my professional life that a briefer used an acronym for which he/she didn't know the meaning. I'd make it a point of asking them what it meant... not to be a prick or clown but to reinforce the need to speak clearly and avoid jargon in communications.

(They had a general idea what the acronym meant at least 80% of the time. At least 50% of the time, they couldn't precisely recite the words though.)

 

[ski2xblack]

Things get more more opaque when you add drivers. A lot of people have put a lot of effort into time aligned speakers. That means using first order crossover where the phase shift between drivers is minimal, and trying to align the acoustic centers of the drivers.

if you can make a point source without phase shift.

As one who appreciates single driver speakers, I think you would appreciate what Danley Sound Labs has accomplished in their Synergy horns (not to mention what's going on in the DIY zone, where some are achieving better results than Danley). Flat phase response, point source, very wide bandwidth and copious dynamic range, and none of the doppler distortion of a wide band single driver. The larger ones can even control a pattern below the typical domestic room's transition frequency, opening whole new realms of mitigating the influence of local acoustics. (Sure, not many folks want such large speakers in their homes, but for those who don't mind that sort of thing, those who prioritize function over all else, they seem to be pushing the state of the art. Heck, I think even YOU [TLSguy] would like them.)

 

[davidscott]

Well it is real, if you can make a point source without phase shift. Your voice is time aligned and for example a flute.

So yes, a good full range driver is time aligned. Things get more more opaque when you add drivers. A lot of people have put a lot of effort into time aligned speakers. That means using first order crossover where the phase shift between drivers is minimal, and trying to align the acoustic centers of the drivers.

That creates other issues. One is a lot of power out of band to drivers, especially tweeters and midranges. That also implies a risk of some degree of comb filtering. Also the driver offsets can result in diffraction problems. Then of course with spaced drivers there is just one position where the time paths really are coincident.
Lastly few recordings are time and phase coherent. I'm one of the few who made them on a regular basis.

I will say that there are definite attractive attributes to a good full ranger or very well executed speaker with time alignment playing those recordings.
So in essence their is validity, but severe issues of practicality.

That's basically what I was talking about - multiple driver time aligned speakers. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[davidscott]

Not a term but any cables with directional arrows on them are suspect at best. And I own a few!

 

[Leemix]

Not a term but any cables with directional arrows on them are suspect at best. And I own a few!

I read that many of the companies that do this do it so that customers who are inexperienced wont have to worry about having connected them correctly and a bit for the many who like to connect the cables the same way as they did before even if it doesnt matter for the performance (a bit ocd(ish) but i kind of like to do this myself so arrows or something that indicates one end from the other i like)


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[everettT]

Not a term but any cables with directional arrows on them are suspect at best. And I own a few!

Chipped HDMI.. have arrows

 

[davidscott]

I read that many of the companies that do this do it so that customers who are inexperienced wont have to worry about having connected them correctly and a bit for the many who like to connect the cables the same way as they did before even if it doesnt matter for the performance (a bit ocd(ish) but i kind of like to do this myself so arrows or something that indicates one end from the other i like)


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Good to know and yes I aligned my audioquest type 4 speaker cables that way. I reversed then tested them and guess what - no difference that I could hear.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Good to know and yes I aligned my audioquest type 4 speaker cables that way. I reversed then tested them and guess what - no difference that I could hear.

You were obviously pointed in the wrong direction!

 

[davidscott]

You were obviously pointed in the wrong direction!

Ok I will try it again and get back to you.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ok I will try it again and get back to you.

Get back...wards lol!!!