bookshelfs with very good bass (no sub needed) with bluesound powernode 2i for big living room

[pberghmans]

I agree that multiple speakers can fill a large space with sound, it the costs usually work out to be the same as more conventional approaches.

One of the challenges of multiple speakers in large single spaces is timing delay, where the sound from the furthest speakers arrives after the sound of the nearest speakers. Added to this are some rather complicated reflections. Most AVRs can correct for this at the seating location but have no way of adjusting as the listening position changes. This leads to problems when listening to 5 channel source material (such as Blu Ray) while moving about the room.

When listening in two channel mode, the smaller number of driven satellites cannot fill the room with adequate sound pressure. They might do a reasonable job up close, but would probably struggle projecting to the back of the room described by the OP.

I agree with your point about LFE for music. A good response down to 30 Hz is certainly adequate for music. It is less so for movies because sub-bass is so frequently used for added effect.

What this says to me is that the OP could either use a combination of multiple satellites and subs -or- floor standing speakers (front channels),satellites (rear channels) and a single sub. Each of these have trade-offs though.

It seems to me like his space doesn't introduce the kind of acoustic difficulties one normally experiences (small rooms, square rooms, low ceilings etc.). It's size, however, makes it challenging to fill with sound for both movies and music at his budget.

This is a tough nut to crack!

wow nice effort with the info. like this forum everybody really helpfull...

I am not an active listener on fixed spot but looking for big sound, big sweetspot in a big room since i wander alot. So i need a speaker with very wide and good imaging, Now looking at quad s-5 & people advise me directions atc which i shall look into also (but for me too expensive)

someone told me also to put several wireless speakers in the whole room corners (airplay) that all fill the room with wireless sub.. so much options

 

[pberghmans]

As soon as you want to play electronica, everything changes. You need a sub, but you could get a wireless one, to make placement flexible. Big bass needs big speakers and/or more excursion and small speakers just can't fill a room with bass at the lowest frequencies, at high sound levels.

Look into Yamaha MusicCast and Denon's HEOS- both have streaming capability, sub out, bluetooth and are controlled by an app. They can be connected to the network wired or WiFi and are available with a decent amp- it's not a huge amount of power, but it's a good start. I prefer these to Sonos but their new Amp has a sub out and supposedly, a better amplifier than their old model.

A wireless sub can be used with any of these, but it must be the same brand as the streaming unit. Universal wireless subwoofer transmit/receive kits are available.

what about bluesound

I would suggest Kef ls50w. They are audiophile speakers with praises by nearly all reviewers. Add one of two subs. In the us, svs is good. But in Europe kef 10b or 12b may be more cost effective.

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That was my first choice till I saw all bad reviews of people with defects, need for streamer, complaints

I want a speaker if active who can be reliable not like the kefs

I talked with a sales man of kef and he went very aggressive of the software problems, components defects , guaranty finished and defects etc Just not buy our system he shouted LOL Not very reassuring and thrustworthy brand I had the impression on how they handle there future customers

 

[everettT]

The LS50 would not meet your needs, albeit an excellent speaker.

 

[pberghmans]

The LS50 would not meet your needs, albeit an excellent speaker.

Yes it seems. Was my first choice I admit.
Would need separate streamer since in build streamer is not good,stable which results in big budget after all. I read on forums
Software problems connection wifi & a lot of people on forums who bought It have defects internal parts just out of warranty.. Very afraid of buying for over 2000 euro speakers and after warranty I have costs... Also their support & service I find it very bad. I've spoken to Keff on stands of big fairs and it was really not friendly and understanding service. Rather aggressive sales pitch...

I want a brand which is trustworthy .. It shall not be kef for me after all..

 

[everettT]

XTZ has been mentioned.
https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/99-25-lcr

 

[highfigh]

what about bluesound



That was my first choice till I saw all bad reviews of people with defects, need for streamer, complaints

I want a speaker if active who can be reliable not like the kefs

I talked with a sales man of kef and he went very aggressive of the software problems, components defects , guaranty finished and defects etc Just not buy our system he shouted LOL Not very reassuring and thrustworthy brand I had the impression on how they handle there future customers

A streaming speaker WILL NOT fill the room at high volume levels, especially if you have a large number of people. Sure, it may sound good, but if you want to play electronica, none of these will do it and I have heard Sonos systems in large rooms- sounds good until the deep bass starts.

As for the KEF reliability- I would bet that the vast majority were abused. If a speaker is used as designed, it should last for decades but if they're abused by trying to fill a large room with deep bass and equalization is used, it can take a few minutes to kill it. Those KEF speakers have a 13mm woofer- that's not enough to provide a lot of bass and with the 85dB sensitivity, it means you would need more power for them to be loud. The larger room makes this more noticeable.

This is all due to Physics- it's not possible to defy Physics and win.

 

[pberghmans]

great speakers for the money but i have researched and cannot find shop in belgium. only netherlands

Just read review of Jtr speakers which do not need sub. you know that brand ?

 

[highfigh]

He was pretty specific about 60 sq meters by the abbreviation and said large living room, 60 x 60m is more like a warehouse.

Several responses made it seem that it was being understood as a 60 meter square and I didn't want to assume anything.

 

[pberghmans]

A streaming speaker WILL NOT fill the room at high volume levels, especially if you have a large number of people. Sure, it may sound good, but if you want to play electronica, none of these will do it and I have heard Sonos systems in large rooms- sounds good until the deep bass starts.

As for the KEF reliability- I would bet that the vast majority were abused. If a speaker is used as designed, it should last for decades but if they're abused by trying to fill a large room with deep bass and equalization is used, it can take a few minutes to kill it. Those KEF speakers have a 13mm woofer- that's not enough to provide a lot of bass and with the 85dB sensitivity, it means you would need more power for them to be loud. The larger room makes this more noticeable.

This is all due to Physics- it's not possible to defy Physics and win.

you know jtr speakers ? jtr noesis 210 rt.. do not need subs to play loud and with good bass i read review on avnirvana.com

 

[highfigh]

you know jtr speakers ? jtr noesis 210 rt.. do not need subs to play loud and with good bass i read review on avnirvana.com

Not familiar, but with two 10" woofers, they're not what I would call 'bookshelf' speakers. They could work, though.

 

[everettT]

JTR is the brand and located in the US. Most of their line is large heavy floorstanding speakers with massive output.
http://jtrspeakers.com

 

[ski2xblack]

Well, at least on a formal level the JTR's demonstrate some of the things we've been trying to point out. They're sensitive, and could probably deafen you even if only powered by the bluesound's 60 watts, and would definitely allow you to throw a heck of a disco party. But they're HUGE, which violates the size constraint, and cost prohibitive particularly when shipping is accounted for.

You're going to have to compromise somewhere. This is why I suggested some powered monitors earlier. I have a pair of older JBL lsr2328p monitors which would be an example of such a compromise. They have an 8" woofer which allows them to extend to 40 hz or so, and must have some sort of limiting on the amps because they can be cranked and never lose composure. The current version lsr308p are probably about the same, and they're quite affordable and widely available (you can find them at musician/pro audio stores, not hi fi audio stores).

 

[GrimSurfer]

What we all seem to be dancing around (myself included) is the fact that sound is created by the movement of air. Moving air efficiently requires devices that can displace large volumes of the stuff with relative ease.

Generally speaking, big speakers can do this better than small speakers. Now folks may raise objections to this by citing specific examples where a particularly small, highly efficient, and imminently capable bookshelf speaker can outperform a large, grossly inefficient, and somewhat incapable tower. But that's reaching.

You have a large space to fill with sound @pberghmans, so the solution should now be reasonably clear from all of our discussions. Your budget is the biggest constraint you face. Personally, I feel it is a bit "light" for what you seek... quality sound, from unobtrusive speakers, to fill a large space at high spl.

Budgets are variable, whereas the properties of sound are not.

 

[lovinthehd]

you know jtr speakers ? jtr noesis 210 rt.. do not need subs to play loud and with good bass i read review on avnirvana.com

Those are awesome speakers by most all accounts. Pretty large, tho and not inexpensive. Their subs are also very good. They're available in Europe?

 

[highfigh]

If they aren't available in Europe, a company called Ecler makes speakers that would probably work- they're usually used for clubs and PA applications where music is played. Based in Spain.