bookshelfs with very good bass (no sub needed) with bluesound powernode 2i for big living room

[pberghmans]

hi

i am just new here and looking for help for my new home i am looking for speakers. the room is 60m2 with ceiling 3.80 m heigh

Now several people advise me to put wireless speakers wallmounted in corners of the whole room..

I am not sure about this..

For the moment thinking of placing 2 speakers connected to tv and bluesound powernode 2i. Advise of good bookshelves of towers who dont need subs and can be drivin by powernode please.

living in belgium

 

[everettT]

What brands are available to you? If your into eletronic you should get a sub. ATC and Atlantic Technologies are two brands that come to mind.

 

[highfigh]

hi

i am just new here and looking for help for my new home i am looking for speakers. the room is 60m2 with ceiling 3.80 m heigh

Now several people advise me to put wireless speakers wallmounted in corners of the whole room..

I am not sure about this..

For the moment thinking of placing 2 speakers connected to tv and bluesound powernode 2i. Advise of good bookshelves of towers who dont need subs and can be drivin by powernode please.

living in belgium

Bookshelves as they are designed now, might not fill the room with bass unless they're actually in bookshelves, near at least two panels (walls, wall and ceiling, or all three) or you're sitting close to them.

That said, the small Dynaudio speakers perform very well and if you have the budget for them, I think they're a great candidate.

 

[ski2xblack]

Does the bluesound have pre-outs? I ask because your best bet at getting a bookshelf with appreciable bass may push you toward an active speaker, such as those from PMC, which are reportedly excellent and should be readily available where you're at. Your demands are butting up against the limits of physics, specifically Hoffman's Iron Law, which pits cabinet size, sensitivity, and extension against each other (pick any two of those qualities at the expense of the other). Given your large-ish room, that's going to come into play. You're going to have to choose where to compromise.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I'm kind of with highfigh on this one... most bookshelf/stand mounted speakers have neither the cabinet volume nor the driver excursion to generate significant sound pressure below 50-70 Hz. They just roll off to steeply after that... especially bass reflex/ported ones.

You can place the speakers in such a way to gain some reinforcement (close to a wall, on a bookshelf) but this often messes up frequency response.

If you want bass, the conventional approaches of towers and subs are normally your best bet.

 

[lovinthehd]

In a room that size, 228 cubic meters/8000cuft, good bass would be hard for a good sized sub let alone bookshelf speakers alone. Larger speakers and sub seem in order.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Agree. Likely two subs, used in conjunction with the towers, would be needed.

 

[pberghmans]

What brands are available to you? If your into eletronic you should get a sub. ATC and Atlantic Technologies are two brands that come to mind.

hi
Correct me if wrong but getting a sub means 2subs for stereo and a musical one which is fast like rel t7.. You need to have experience tuning this perfectly also plus the visual aspects of the sub in the living room.. i can understand your point for ht and my future cinema ofcourse. Now i want a budget friendly advise with 2 musical speakers which dont need sub. Atc is very costly and not willing to spend so much on that level.

thx

 

[GrimSurfer]

Two subs of the same type (manufacturer and model) usually work best. It makes tuning easier. As for the aesthetics, you can either choose good sound or great looks... but sometimes not both (though subs can be hidden sometimes).

What you're asking for (bookshelf speakers with great bass) simply isn't possible due to physics. Small speakers don't put out meaningful levels of bass... and certainly not enough for such a large space.

 

[pberghmans]

Two subs of the same type (manufacturer and model) usually work best. It makes tuning easier. As for the aesthetics, you can either choose good sound or great looks... but sometimes not both (though subs can be hidden sometimes).

What you're asking for (bookshelf speakers with great bass) simply isn't possible due to physics. Small speakers don't put out meaningful levels of bass... and certainly not enough for such a large space.

thanks for feedback
ok i can understand that.. good reasoning but there shall allways be stereo purists wo would answer that it is not done a sub lol

2 rel t7i with jbl arena 230 and ampli bluesound 2i would be good combo ?
i was thinking of not spending to much on ampli and since i need a streamer thr bluesound does it all.. not a pre amp foreseen though in this..

 

[ski2xblack]

You don't need two subs for stereo. The benefit of multiple subs is improvement in modal response (more even bass response across more of the listening area).

The REL t7i seem rather puny for the price, and woefully inadequate for such a large room. MSRP for a pair of those is $1600. I would spend the sub budget elsewhere personally. The JBL mains would suffice as long as you like how they sound, but you could probably find better speakers if you scrounge around some more (the aforementioned brands Dynaudio, XTZ, PMC, etc are all worth a look/listen).

 

[GrimSurfer]

My pleasure.

In my opinion, the REL T7i is a little light in bass. I say this because the specs show 30 Hz at -6 dB. Ignoring the -6 dB drop, 30 Hz is barely enough to capture the fundamental frequency of some musical instruments. When viewed with the drop, it probably isn't enough to give these instruments the justice they deserve.

The JBL specs look pretty good for their price range. Like all bookshelf designs, they're light in bass but they perform reasonably well to 55 Hz (which is commendable for bookshelves). They aren't as sensitive as most (an independent review I read rated them at 85dB/W/m based on a quasi-anechoic test (not in a free space or each free chamber, JT by placing the mic very close to the driver).

This combination might not be right for you because of the size of your space. Power can overcome sensitivity but won't change frequency range of the sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

hi
Correct me if wrong but getting a sub means 2subs for stereo and a musical one which is fast like rel t7.. You need to have experience tuning this perfectly also plus the visual aspects of the sub in the living room.. i can understand your point for ht and my future cinema ofcourse. Now i want a budget friendly advise with 2 musical speakers which dont need sub. Atc is very costly and not willing to spend so much on that level.

thx

Not much reason to have stereo subs, not much content to support it either (in many recordings sub bass is already in mono) and the best position for a sub often isn't where the main speakers are. Aesthetics don't always mix well with speaker/sub selection, and often raise the price for nicer finishes or smaller subs that still perform (larger the better generally for a sub). The Rel is a pretty weak sub for the price usually (especially here in the US), and fast has nothing to do with anything but spl really, it's a poor descriptor most of the time. I'd say you need some fairly large bass-capable speakers, floor standers most likely, if you don't want help from a sub/subs. I have speakers in a higher line than the 230s and the small bookshelves in that range (the 530) I certainly wouldn't expect to act as mains in a large room unless perhaps I sat fairly close to the speakers.

How far will you sit from the speakers? ATC is an excellent high performance speaker. Good capable speakers will cost money. What is your budget?

 

[JerryLove]

For the moment thinking of placing 2 speakers connected to tv and bluesound powernode 2i. Advise of good bookshelves of towers who dont need subs and can be drivin by powernode please.

I think there would be benefit in levelsetting.

What does "don't need subs" mean to you? What frequencies at what volume at what distance?

You will never get 105db@20hz@2m (THX peak IIRC) out of a bookshelf.
You won't get that out of most towers either.

Generally you have three traits: Low, Loud, Small. You can pick any two.

That's not to say there's nothing, never that will push those (say: shocing a JL10W7 into a bookshelf.. which I would expect to start bouncing if not strapped down); but there are real limits.

 

[lovinthehd]

You also need to be somewhat careful with your speaker selection to match up with the Bluesound amp section, it's only rated at 60wpc into 8 ohms. Is it even suitable for 4 ohm speakers?

 

[j_garcia]

With a lower power amp, you'll want a higher sensitivity speaker. At least you can achieve loud, but maybe not "room filling". It depends on what the real goal is, if you're not after concert levels, there are plenty of speakers that will work. Maybe we need a budget range?

 

[shkumar4963]

hi

i am just new here and looking for help for my new home i am looking for speakers. the room is 60m2 with ceiling 3.80 m heigh

Now several people advise me to put wireless speakers wallmounted in corners of the whole room..

I am not sure about this..

For the moment thinking of placing 2 speakers connected to tv and bluesound powernode 2i. Advise of good bookshelves of towers who dont need subs and can be drivin by powernode please.

living in belgium

Let us know the use cases. Back ground music listening vs. critical music listening, vs. tv watching, vs movie watching. Or all of the above in different fractions.

And the budget

Based on that, we could help with the most appropriate system and best placement solutions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[KEW]

hi

i am just new here and looking for help for my new home i am looking for speakers. the room is 60m2 with ceiling 3.80 m heigh

Now several people advise me to put wireless speakers wallmounted in corners of the whole room..

I am not sure about this..

For the moment thinking of placing 2 speakers connected to tv and bluesound powernode 2i. Advise of good bookshelves of towers who dont need subs and can be drivin by powernode please.

living in belgium

The guys here have pretty high standards for bass.
The good thing is you can always add a sub later if you decide your bass is wanting.
I spend a lot of time listening to JBL LSR305's (pro audio speakers with built in amplifiers).
This speaker only has a 5" woofer and isn't any special implementation of the woofer.
It is true that when I switch to my better system with subwoofers, I sometimes revel in the added bass it offers; however, I can enjoy music immensely from a good pair of bookshelf speakers!
I can imagine someone who is into electronica feeling the whole music experience is ruined on my JBL's, but I listen mostly to Jazz and progressive rock. Low E on a bass guitar is 41Hz and the JBL's are rated at 43Hz (but not clear if that is -3dB).
Ultimately, you are making a sacrifice by not having a sub, but I think most bookshelf speakers with 6" or 7" woofers would do reasonably well for most music.
I don't know if Canton (German company) speakers are available to you, but they are pretty nice and seem well designed across their line!

What budget do you have for a pair of speakers (or are you looking for 5 channels or more)?

 

[GrimSurfer]

http://www.zytrax.com/tech/audio/audio.html#frequencies

http://blog.landr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Instrument_Frequency_Chart.jpg

 

[pberghmans]

The guys here have pretty high standards for bass.
The good thing is you can always add a sub later if you decide your bass is wanting.
I spend a lot of time listening to JBL LSR305's (pro audio speakers with built in amplifiers).
This speaker only has a 5" woofer and isn't any special implementation of the woofer.
It is true that when I switch to my better system with subwoofers, I sometimes revel in the added bass it offers; however, I can enjoy music immensely from a good pair of bookshelf speakers!
I can imagine someone who is into electronica feeling the whole music experience is ruined on my JBL's, but I listen mostly to Jazz and progressive rock. Low E on a bass guitar is 41Hz and the JBL's are rated at 43Hz (but not clear if that is -3dB).
Ultimately, you are making a sacrifice by not having a sub, but I think most bookshelf speakers with 6" or 7" woofers would do reasonably well for most music.
I don't know if Canton (German company) speakers are available to you, but they are pretty nice and seem well designed across their line!

What budget do you have for a pair of speakers (or are you looking for 5 channels or more)?

Thanks for the info !
Budget speakers around 1500 euros.. I was thinking of speakers in the like of 'Buchardt Audio' since they go deep and people say no sub is needed.. problem is there is no real store just a webshop So no real support setting up my gear

It is true I play a lot of electronic music.. Which sub is advised for this ? I was thinking REL but the t7i is for my very big living room to puny people say. Other are saying buy 2.. But then my budget is increasing rapidly over time ..
Thats the reason I was thinking of speakers where you don't feel the need for sub : full range big tower speakers maybe can solve this

Also driving the speakers only by bluesound 2i with no pre ampli or better dac can I hear this difference since no audiophile ?

thanks for info