Need a 5 channel amp.

[snakeeyes]

Mine still gets hot.
AC Infinity all the way; T series. Don't need it for my amps, just my AVR. Vented to suit your situation. Rear, Top, or Front (if you have to put it in a cabinet). Looks clean and easy to control.

Jealous of those 2200 amps, but not sure I need them. When they go on sale Labor Day or whenever, I might grab 2 or 3.

 

[PENG]

The Denons and Marantz run hot. Dual fans are necessary to draw out the hot air.

I think if you power all the channels with an external amp, there is a setting that uses less power maybe that might reduce some of the heat. Not entirely sure though since I read that and don’t have firsthand experience with those brands.

I am talking about the AC Infinity fans, it depends on how much natural ventilation so not every one needs two 120 mm fans but of course the more the better.

The setting you talk about is the ECO mode that I think most recent AVRs have, including Yamaha and Onkyo's I assume.. Edit: I Just checked a Sony and Onkyo model, no ECO mode, but not sure if they have something similar with a different name. Yamaha has ECO mode, but has "On/Off" selection only, no "auto".

The D&M units have the On/Off/Auto settings. I have mine set to "On" because I don't use the internal amps, otherwise "Auto" may be useful for people who listen to moderate levels, but for those who set the volume to say higher than -30 all the time, then it may be a moot point.

The details of those settings were explained in another thread, including the link to an AVSF thread who in turn linked to a response from D&M customer support, but here it is again:

See post#6
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2089586-denon-s-eco-mode-what-does-do-exactly.html

 

[PENG]

Mine still gets hot.
AC Infinity all the way; T series. Don't need it for my amps, just my AVR. Vented to suit your situation. Rear, Top, or Front (if you have to put it in a cabinet). Looks clean and easy to control.

If you are not using any internal amps of the AVR, set it to "ON", not "AUTO". If set to auto, unless your volume is set low, like -35, ECO will not do anything for you. The "Auto" thing is a misnomer, it only means automatically turns on/off depending on the volume level. Not really auto in a true/or meaningful sense (such as depend on load demand and/or heat sink temperature).

 

[KEW]

The setting you talk about is the ECO mode that I think most recent AVRs have, including Yamaha and Onkyo's I assume.. The D&M units have the On/Off/Auto settings. I have mine set to "On" because I don't use the internal amps, otherwise "Auto" may be useful for people who listen to moderate levels, but for those who set the volume to say higher than -30 all the time, then it may be a moot point.

The details of those settings were explained in another thread, including the link to an AVSF thread who in turn linked to a response from D&M customer support, but here it is again:

See post#6
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2089586-denon-s-eco-mode-what-does-do-exactly.html

Thanks, I have been looking for more detail since the ECO feature was released!
I missed the other thread.
Gene discussed it a little in one of his reviews, but that was the most I had found!

 

[Pablo2k]

Hi all,
My first post here.
I have same issue as OP I was researching on.
Did you figure out & tested a good matching amp for your configuration?

I have bought a Denon X4500H AVR & 5 X B&W 683 S2 Speakers and more 684 Bookshelf speakers. I did a temporary test. AVR connected with 3 X 683 S2 units as front L/C/R and 2 X 684 as Surrounds in a bit larger room in my basement. I feel that I need to run volume of AVR to about level 85 to get good level defined audio. After operating for 15 minutes I feel AVR is fairly warm. Also thinking that AVR is not operating upto the potential of the speakers. This will probaby get worse once other channels and ATMOS connected. Lot of B&W owners talk about speakers being too picky for amplifier brands. If I want to run at least front L/C/R or more on separate Amps,

Appreciate input from all had such experience.

Hi, Your Denon says 125w when running two channels, once you run 5 or 7 that number might drop to 30w per channel.
When I had my Onkyo NR906 (145w per channel) and upgraded to 683s, I also had turn up the volume a lot more.
The NR906 was a 60lbs beast high current amp, 145w 2 channels but when running all 7 channels, it was about 68w.
So then I upgraded to Nad M25 which could do 169w per channel all 7 channels driven at the same time; 100lbs amp. It was a perfect match for my 683s
Now I’m running 804s with a McIntosh MC252 which is rated at 252w per channels and runing the rest with a McIntosh MC126 that can only output about 80w.
So for the center channel I have it set to about 3db+.
To tell you the truth, it’s sounds perfect for me even though there is such a difference in wattage.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi, Your Denon says 125w when running two channels, once you run 5 or 7 that number might drop to 30w per channel.
When I had my Onkyo NR906 (145w per channel) and upgraded to 683s, I also had turn up the volume a lot more.
The NR906 was a 60lbs beast high current amp, 145w 2 channels but when running all 7 channels, it was about 68w.
So then I upgraded to Nad M25 which could do 169w per channel all 7 channels driven at the same time; 100lbs amp. It was a perfect match for my 683s
Now I’m running 804s with a McIntosh MC252 which is rated at 252w per channels and runing the rest with a McIntosh MC126 that can only output about 80w.
So for the center channel I have it set to about 3db+.
To tell you the truth, it’s sounds perfect for me even though there is such a difference in wattage.

Denons tend not to have specs that drop that low on ACD tests. Here''s a bench test from an older family member of the 4500, the 4200 https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench which yields more than double the number you mention.

The Onkyo 906 needing more volume probably had much more to do with the demands of the speakers than any indication of power. I can't find a bench test but 68wpc sounds low, have a link to a test?

Nad M25 power amp actually benched in an ACD test by S&V a very impressive
0.1% distortion at 194.3 watts
1% distortion at 230.7 watts
But comparing a dedicated power amp to an avr is somewhat meaningless, too.

ps ACD ratings only mean so much in the real world as simultaneous full demand of all channels isn't a real concern/need.

 

[Pablo2k]

Denons tend not to have specs that drop that low on ACD tests. Here''s a bench test from an older family member of the 4500, the 4200 https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench which yields more than double the number you mention.

The Onkyo 906 needing more volume probably had much more to do with the demands of the speakers than any indication of power. I can't find a bench test but 68wpc sounds low, have a link to a test?

Nad M25 power amp actually benched in an ACD test by S&V a very impressive
0.1% distortion at 194.3 watts
1% distortion at 230.7 watts
But comparing a dedicated power amp to an avr is somewhat meaningless, too.

ps ACD ratings only mean so much in the real world as simultaneous full demand of all channels isn't a real concern/need.

You are right about the speakers demanding more from the nr906, it had to do with the sensitivity.

That’s nice to hear about the Denon, but 76.8w if far from 125w.

Probably wouldn’t notice the difference, and Like you said, all channels are not driven all the time when watching movies.

I was unable to find a bench test for the NR906, that was just me guessing from reading about other Onkyos. At the time, the NR906 was flagship, but like all Onkyos, it overheated until it fried its own second hdmi output.

 

[lovinthehd]

You are right about the speakers demanding more from the nr906, it had to do with the sensitivity.

That’s nice to hear about the Denon, but 76.8w if far from 125w.

Probably wouldn’t notice the difference, and Like you said, all channels are not driven all the time when watching movies.

I was unable to find a bench test for the NR906, that was just me guessing from reading about other Onkyos. At the time, the NR906 was flagship, but like all Onkyos, it overheated until it fried its own second hdmi output.

I couldn't find one with a brief search either for the 906 but suspect it was quite a bit more powerful than you indicated. 77wpc may be different from 125wpc, but mostly in the advertising spec....advertising it as a 75wpc unit would give the marketing departmet conniption fits. ACD rating just isn't that meaningful unless you actually have content that demands full and equal power to all channels, which is possible (and then you'd have the old surround speaker sensitivity sneaking in as additional problem in many cases ).

 

[AVTNY]

Hi, Your Denon says 125w when running two channels, once you run 5 or 7 that number might drop to 30w per channel.
When I had my Onkyo NR906 (145w per channel) and upgraded to 683s, I also had turn up the volume a lot more.
The NR906 was a 60lbs beast high current amp, 145w 2 channels but when running all 7 channels, it was about 68w.
So then I upgraded to Nad M25 which could do 169w per channel all 7 channels driven at the same time; 100lbs amp. It was a perfect match for my 683s
Now I’m running 804s with a McIntosh MC252 which is rated at 252w per channels and runing the rest with a McIntosh MC126 that can only output about 80w.
So for the center channel I have it set to about 3db+.
To tell you the truth, it’s sounds perfect for me even though there is such a difference in wattage.

NAD M25 shows discontinued on manufacturer's site. Is there any current version?
Also I was looking at Pioneer Elite SC-LX901 specs. reviews are good. Anybody has experience using with B&W ?

 

[lovinthehd]

The M22 is the same series but only a 2ch amp, don't see any powerful multich amps on their site when I just looked.

 

[PENG]

You are right about the speakers demanding more from the nr906, it had to do with the sensitivity.

That’s nice to hear about the Denon, but 76.8w if far from 125w.

Probably wouldn’t notice the difference, and Like you said, all channels are not driven all the time when watching movies.

I was unable to find a bench test for the NR906, that was just me guessing from reading about other Onkyos. At the time, the NR906 was flagship, but like all Onkyos, it overheated until it fried its own second hdmi output.

You can expect the bench test performance of the 906 similar to those of the 805,875,876,905 and I the sister Integra models. The 805's had 8/4 ohm tested outputs practically as good as the NAD M25.

You are right about the fact that not all channels are not going to demand the same power simultaneously, not in terms of peaks for sure. So for real world performance, at the same price point I would rank Yamaha and onkyo flagship AVRs above NADs and D&Ms.