Denon AVC-8500H is it D.O.A. or a Bug in the software?

[Dmantis10]

Are you still using Denon?

No I moved away from them Years ago. I'm currently using a Sony ES receiver in the STRZ5000ES flagship model. Thats on the chopping block and I'm seeking something else. I'm probably going to look back at Pioneer Elite SCLX-901and the awesome Integra DRX-R1.1 which I really like a lot. The Pioneer I'm waiting to see if they release a new 9 series model.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No I moved away from them Years ago. I'm currently using a Sony ES receiver in the STRZ5000ES flagship model. Thats on the chopping block and I'm seeking something else. I'm probably going to look back at Pioneer Elite SCLX-901and the awesome Integra DRX-R1.1 which I really like a lot. The Pioneer I'm waiting to see if they release a new 9 series model.

Have you used all the different flagship AVR? Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, Integra?

 

[TheoN]

To provide a few points of insight. I’ve been living with the AVR-X8500H for a few months in my 7.2.6 setup for the forthcoming review here on Audioholics. The Denon X8500H is simply an outstanding performer.

In pre mode it disconnects the amplifier section but does not power it off. It has the same behavior as the X7200WA.

It is astounding to me—being able to compare both the X7200WA and X8500H—the refinement Denon has put into this new flagship. I have an entire section in the review about it.its noticeable in just about every area.

 

[TheoN]

On the reliability front, I was using the Denon X7200WA as a reference for a few years. Not a single problem. Like Gene, mine was rack mounted. I had ample ventilation. The X8500H likewise I used in my rack. I can see where some people (not all of course) put expensive gear in closed spaces where heat builds up and impacts reliability. You can buy a $20k processor and still get a lemon.

 

[Gmoney]

I noticed the picture sometimes goes black on my SR8012 when playing my Nintendo Wii with the kids which has a component video connection to the SR8012 and converted to HDMI. I do have a JVC 4-head VHS in my system still and will test forward/rewind to see if I can replicate what you're seeing on the 8500H.

It gives me an excuse to watch Star Trek Generations again, though I will cringe when Riker can't handle a battle with a 20yo Klingon BOP and loses the Enterprise as a result.

Gene, VHS still? . Just how old is that JVC? Analog right? If so have you ever had it serviced?
With everyone Ditching for all Digital, Streaming.
Keeping your VHS player/recorder for throwback watching isn't a bad thing. For those same reasons you keep that JVC, is why I still have Vinyl, case in point. My Onkyo CD player went out, didn't have a Blu ray player but had a cheap DVD player that for music sounded like crap for music only. You know, the units with Sterile lifeless sound. One thing about analog when the Digital backdrops good to have backup analog. Gene, which is your Favorite Star Treks? Mine is Star Trek Enterprise, with Scott Bakula, one of my Favorite episodes when he was held captive being tortured by one of those creepy Aliens with all antennas on his head, Aliens goes "You humans sure talk a lot" Captain Acher , Replies "I have a lot to say" So your a gamer also, I still remember the day's of Nintendo battling teenage mutant ninja turtles with my two sons ages 12 and 6 or looking for all those Hidden hearts in Zelda.

 

[PENG]

It probably does. However, if you're not using the internal amps, ship the 8500H back to the dealer and get yourself a Marantz AV8805. It has the exact same processing power of the Denon 8500H without the amp section so it's more efficient, lighter and has balanced outs.

Well, I sort of said that too earlier, but now that we have seen the measurements of the junior Denon AVR-X3600H and the top Marantz AV8805, I would not do that if I were a purist, unless I must use balanced connections. That is because the Denon AVR appeared to beat the AV7705 and even the AV8805 at least up to 2 V output if internal amps are disconnected, ie. preamp mode in the AVC-X8500H.

It would be a logical assumption to say the the AVC-X8500H in preamp mode is actually the best current AVP in the D+M line up based on projected performance (from that of the AVR-X3600H with FL/FR assigned to pre-out). Too bad it won't be a simple procedure to actually remove the amp section, though I am sure one of those authorized D+M service center could do if it they wanted to, or allowed to on request of the owner.

 

[GAmbrose]

So given that the first review of the 4700H is lacklustre:

Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the newly announced Denon AVR-X4700H 9.2 channel AVR. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me for testing. It costs US $1,700 on Amazon including Prime shipping. NOTE: post publication of this review, Denon Engineering kindly...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is it likely this could in fact be an issue with the entire range of 2020 AVRs?

In which case, would you say a 2018 8500H is still a viable option (it's about the same cost as the 6700H launch price) or do you think it's worth waiting for the 8500HA?

 

[PENG]

So given that the first review of the 4700H is lacklustre:

Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the newly announced Denon AVR-X4700H 9.2 channel AVR. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me for testing. It costs US $1,700 on Amazon including Prime shipping. NOTE: post publication of this review, Denon Engineering kindly...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is it likely this could in fact be an issue with the entire range of 2020 AVRs?

In which case, would you say a 2018 8500H is still a viable option (it's about the same cost as the 6700H launch price) or do you think it's worth waiting for the 8500HA?

The problem with that site is, Amir set such a high bar for his SINAD measurements, so readers who don't take the time to digest it might be mislead to think anything measured with SINAD a few dB below 90 is a diaster.

As I pointed out in the other thread, the 4700 still beat the AV7705, that's a separate! I agreed it is "lacklustre" but only relatively speaking, not practically speaking.

I would say the 8500 could be an excellent option if you can get one for $2,000, with full warranty and if you don't need 8K. It could be upgraded but I wouldn't risk sending out a 53 lbs unit for the 8K that may not even work if you think about what happened to those who bought into 4K capable units at first launch. I have a few of those so I know it wasn't fun..

 

[GAmbrose]

Yeah, you are right about having to send it back for a board upgrade, and the additional cost (I dread to think)...plus just being without it for a while would be annoying.

I've seen a few mentions of a new Denon 110th anniversary 'halo product' AVR that might get released later this year. Do you think that might just be the 8500HA or could it be something entirely new

 

[PENG]

Yeah, you are right about having to send it back for a board upgrade, and the additional cost (I dread to think)...plus just being without it for a while would be annoying.

I've seen a few mentions of a new Denon 110th anniversary 'halo product' AVR that might get released later this year. Do you think that might just be the 8500HA or could it be something entirely new

I don't think anyone can tell you more, not until it at least a launch date is known, or at least speculated. Based on ASR's measurements, the AVR-X3600H is the safest bet if 8K is not needed. I got stung by the 4K thing more than once so I am too guy shy to even think about "upgrading" to any so called 8K capable devices regardless. So right now I firmly believe the X3600H is the best.

As you know, people get all riled up by the so called poor, disappointing, blablabla... performance of the X4700H, but aside from what I have already commented on the practical meaning of those measurements, I would say the X4500H should in all likelihood measure closer to if not better than the AVR-X3600H. I have no proof other than taking an educated guess, based on the fact that the X4500H is a higher model of the basically the same generation as the X3600H that measured well. It certainly has the same HDMI board, and the HDMI board appears to be the source of the high noise of the AVR-X4700H ASR discovered in their measurements.

In that review, note that the reviewer said the following about the X4700H:

"Notice how much cleaner the FFT spectrum is. Actually, that is a lie because it looks clean because the noise floor is quite a bit higher than it should be. This is why, despite distortions being below -100 dB (which is good), our SINAD which is a combination of noise and distortion is still quite lackluster:"

So on distortions alone, it was in fact very low, -100 dB is 0.001%.

Still, I won't recommend the 2020 models, not until at least one more device has been measured, and even then I am not sure if it is a good idea to be first to upgrade to any new product that has the first generation HDMI board that comes with major changes from the generation that has been around for a few years.

 

[surveyor]

What is the block capacitance of the AVR-X8500H?