Denon AVC-8500H is it D.O.A. or a Bug in the software?

[Bookmark]

Ok, You could be correct Peng. You could possibly do 8, with either 4 heights or 4 overheads with internal assignments, but obviously not at the same time I think. Pretty sure power can only be routed to either Height 3 or 4, unless you sacrifice either power to 1 or 2 or one of the base layer pairs.

 

[PENG]

Maybe the handshake between HDMI connections?

Possibly, but more likely a glitch in the internet connection (at the provider end I think..) at that moment because even AppleTV stopped a couple of times that evening.

 

[PENG]

View attachment 27157

Ok, You could be correct Peng. You could possibly do 8, with either 4 heights or 4 overheads with internal assignments, but obviously not at the same time I think. Pretty sure power can only be routed to either Height 3 or 4, unless you sacrifice either power to 1 or 2.

Yep, that's what I was thinking, all can be connected and used, but not the same time. I actually found out even my 9 channel X4400H can do such auto switching if I connect all 11 speakers but I use external amps anyway so there is no need to even try. I don't think this feature is well know by the X4400H/X6400H owners because the manual (the X4400H) does not talk about it. The X8500H manual does mention this feature.

 

[PENG]

The other one has been checked and taken back and now I have to open the new replacement and hard-wire the Ethernet, for the firmware and just see it goes all okay without the green evil screen again.

View attachment 27147View attachment 27148

Is that the new box, the box still does not look like it has been handled carefully, looked a little better than the pictures you posted in earlier posts but it could be from different angle? I typically picked my own box at the store so all my boxes look virtually brand new with no dents and almost wrinkle free.

 

[Bookmark]

As far as I knew from the videos, you can pretty much re-assign everything in the 8500 for the ultimate flexibility

Given Andy indicated 400 miles, I'm thinking it's coming from up north, Newcastle, Carlisle and Peter Tyson.

 

[PENG]

As far as I knew from the videos, you can pretty much re-assign everything in the 8500 for the ultimate flexibility

Given Andy indicated 400 miles, I'm thinking it's coming from up north, Newcastle, Carlisle and Peter Tyson.

Not very practical, but in theory I could add a cheap x3400h to achieve 7.1.6 just for fun.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I assume he wanted 13 channel processing...There is a $5,000 16 channel Emotiva RMC-1, but I don't think it is available yet.

I think that's part of the problem - too many channels and too much crap horseshoed inside the chassis.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I watched Magic chewing on the Denon early this morning.

Unfortunately if we want a more simplistic/elegant/clutter-free design, we have to pony up a lot of cash to get something like the Theta Digital or DataSAT pre-pro.

PENG mentioned the $5K Emotiva pre-pro, but there's no way I'm spending $5K on an Emotiva.

As mentioned in the "Separates vs AVR" thread, the problem with all these new electronics is that they horseshoe/cram all of creation inside the little chassis. Like you said - a dozen layers of circuit boards atop circuit boards. They keep piling on.

I do not consider this good engineering, although I'm not an engineer or anything.

I consider electronics like Theta and DataSAT good engineering because they look like simple computers with easily replaceable circuit boards.

These complex Japanese-designed electronics are made to be used and thrown away, not repaired.

 

[M Code]

Nothing is made to the standard that the venerable Denon AVR-5805 was built to but that was an elegant weapon for a more civilized time.

see: https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-5805

I wept when I had to sell this unit and then I wept again when I had to give up my Denon AVP and POA Separates since there was no upgrade path to Atmos or HDMI 2.0.

The AVR-X8500H is the closest thing you're going to get from Denon these days to the AVR-5805 as it's built in the same production facility in Japan that the AVR-5805 was made. It was also designed by the same brilliant engineer.

I haven't heard of many failures of new Denon receivers. You do have to be very careful to make sure you have a stable wired ethernet connection when doing firmware updates. I NEVER do firmware updates wirelessly. Perhaps there was a hiccup during the upgrade process that lead to the failure you're seeing.

Before throwing it into the kitty litter box, give a 2nd unit a try.

I'm running a Marantz SR8012 in my family room system in a 5.2.4 speaker configuration and very pleased with it. Good luck.

PS. I never reviewed the Yamaha AI feature yet. That was a preview article. I am running a CX-A5100 processor in my theater room and will be upgrading to the CX-A5200 next year to test it out. The AVENTAGE processor has excellent build quality and is well worth it's asking price IF you're ok with only 11CH processing.

I totally agree with Gene about the Denon products designed/assembled in Japan. We got to know the Denon engineers for the 5805 as they spent (2) weeks@ the SkyWalker Ranch(Sunnyvale, CA) getting THX certification. We happen to have been there for another brand THX certification..
I was most impressed by Denon's engineers plus having visited their AVR manufacturing factory in Japan it was probably the best in Japan, maybe even the world. Unfortunately putting a 55 lb complex, electronic component in a single carton and shipping it from overseas (several thousand miles,) and then shipping it from the brand's warehouse/distributor > to the dealer > to the end customer....
Raises many questions on handling, if U have seen 1st hand some of the rough handling by UPS and/or other delivery services U will understand my basic point.
IMHO..
Denon should have used extra packing materials plus having double cartons...
Though it raises their costs a little, a high ticket product can afford as to provide further protect the unit.

Just my $0.02...

 

[KEW]

So, we're all holding our breath for you Andy!
How is it going over there?
Are you testing the unit out prior to the update, or going for broke straight out of the box?
Hope things go smoothly this go 'round!

 

[andyblackcat]

So, we're all holding our breath for you Andy!
How is it going over there?
Are you testing the unit out prior to the update, or going for broke straight out of the box?
Hope things go smoothly this go 'round!

Yeah, thank you KEW, guess no one wants to see a cat litter incident.

All went as normal I went ahead with the firmware with Ethernet connected to the AVR back panel.

Download of firmware update completed and AVR switched automatically back ON switched primary monitor ON Screen looking all normal.

 

[andyblackcat]

Unfortunately if we want a more simplistic/elegant/clutter-free design, we have to pony up a lot of cash to get something like the Theta Digital or DataSAT pre-pro.

PENG mentioned the $5K Emotiva pre-pro, but there's no way I'm spending $5K on an Emotiva.

As mentioned in the "Separates vs AVR" thread, the problem with all these new electronics is that they horseshoe/cram all of creation inside the little chassis. Like you said - a dozen layers of circuit boards atop circuit boards. They keep piling on.

I do not consider this good engineering, although I'm not an engineer or anything.

I consider electronics like Theta and DataSAT good engineering because they look like simple computers with easily replaceable circuit boards.

These complex Japanese-designed electronics are made to be used and thrown away, not repaired.

You could have brought a Dolby CP850 few months ago that sold fast and I could have brought all x3 of them as they where going for $1000 and another seller $1800 they appeared to have come from a dubbing theatre that went out of business and was up for sale on ebay.

There is a Dolby Atmos interface for amplifiers 32 channels on ebay but useless with AVR's it will only operate with a Dolby CP850.

 

[andyblackcat]

I think that's part of the problem - too many channels and too much crap horseshoed inside the chassis.

Well I agree as many of the parts are going to produce a lot of heat rising around inside.

So far Denon AVC-X8500H has been on few just few hours now and that often the AVR depending on what brand/model will ether be very touch HOT by hand, so far the Denon AVC-X8500H appears to be at modest normal operating temperature even thou the amplifiers ain't seeing any speaker impedance load as I'm using the RCA pre-outputs to outboard additional processors DSP crossovers and amplifiers.

The Onkyo TX-SR875 that I used for many years that AVR got ridiculously VERY HOT with my hand on the back of top panel for just few seconds I had to release my hand it would have blistered my hand and that is silly for an AVR that was behaving like it was a Radiator! No wonder the HDMI board had issues as I often saw drop-outs in the video then it got worse and the analouge Video input didn't convert to upscale 1080p for Lasrdisc player the screen was colour flicking and I had to hard wire the Video to Video input on the monitor. The HDMI from players to HDMI AVR to HDMI on the monitor was all fine. So that is weird?

 

[andyblackcat]

As far as I knew from the videos, you can pretty much re-assign everything in the 8500 for the ultimate flexibility

Given Andy indicated 400 miles, I'm thinking it's coming from up north, Newcastle, Carlisle and Peter Tyson.

Yes you win a prize for second guess correct. I brought my Marnatz SR6012 from them back around June 2018, I think? So that AVR is still under its warranty or is it extended 5 years?

 

[andyblackcat]

Is that the new box, the box still does not look like it has been handled carefully, looked a little better than the pictures you posted in earlier posts but it could be from different angle? I typically picked my own box at the store so all my boxes look virtually brand new with no dents and almost wrinkle free.

New box with few nips on the edges of it but otherwise undamaged inside.

 

[andyblackcat]

Possibly, but more likely a glitch in the internet connection (at the provider end I think..) at that moment because even AppleTV stopped a couple of times that evening.

Well Virgin Media isn't what anyone in the UK would call reliable. I have seen so many days and nights where the system is in (blackout) along with telephone lines as well so useless if one had a medical condition for emergency calls or if there was a fire! Thank goodness my mobile can dial out for emergency calls.

Last week Virgin Media had nearly a day blackout of the system going on and off then off for many hours. Along with myself and most of the country leaving comments about how lousy the service is.

I wouldn't be surprised if a glitch of a sort occurred within the system yesterday.

 

[andyblackcat]

View attachment 27157

Ok, You could be correct Peng. You could possibly do 8, with either 4 heights or 4 overheads with internal assignments, but obviously not at the same time I think. Pretty sure power can only be routed to either Height 3 or 4, unless you sacrifice either power to 1 or 2 or one of the base layer pairs.

What I have in mind is to expand the Heights with a bit more width or wideness by fitting a matrix decoder on each Height channel so that any cenntre phantom signals will be re-routed towards middle while freeing up the sound signal for a short of

Height1 LCR
Height 2 LCR
Height 3 LCR
I think 9 on the ceiling will be enough.

The matrix decoder is ether gonna see a possible negative - anti-phase out of phase signal or not, maybe? So that will take the Heights 1, 2 and 3 to around x12 only if using a normal pro-logic decoder. Using a PLIIx/z will expand it a bit further with sounds arriving different around the room. Hooray for stereo signals.

Its only an idea that I been thinking about over past few weeks.

Like to try the Front Wides to see if its as predictable as I sort of thought about year so before PLIIz arrived along with DSX.

I'm not trying to showoff or prove anything. I just like to explore it and see how far or how better I can make it sound?

 

[KEW]

I'm not trying to showoff or prove anything. I just like to explore it and see how far or how better I can make it sound?

Hey, if it wasn't for people like you, experimenting with, and pushing the limits of what the "State of Art" is capable of, the rest of us blokes wouldn't be able to enjoy comparatively reliable trickle down!
Thank you, sir!

...although, I must admit, the kitty litter photos just have a certain "raw elegance"!

 

[Bookmark]

Yes you win a prize for second guess correct. I brought my Marnatz SR6012 from them back around June 2018,

As did I, maybe around easter I think. Yes that where we got the 5 years, so it will be. I'm about 400 too, just the other direction.

I'm glad it's all working now, no Magic required. Hopefully the experiments bear some fruit.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think that's part of the problem - too many channels and too much crap horseshoed inside the chassis.

You have that absolutely correct. This is a picture of the guts of that unit.

Just look at those tiny horrid little power amps crammed in their like sardines.

Anyone who puts down hard change for a unit like that has never experienced the real world.

I would not give a cent for a unit like that, nor receive as a gift. It is a total waste of space and resources.

Good chance that unit will not make it out of the warranty period, if it does far more likely than not it will blow shortly after the warranty expires.

That is an absolutely worthless piece.

My recommendation is to avoid and run fast away from it.

This new trend of not rating receivers to 4 ohm and only 6 is an to be condemned.

This latest outrage shows why.