Early stage planning of upgrading to projection

[APORTO]

I sit 9 Ft from a 126" screen and I think it is perfect. I have room to move the seating back, but that is optimal for me. I do, however, like being 1/3 back in a movie theater. I like immersive viewing, it may cause fatigue if you binge watch for hours, but that isn't the purpose of a home theater. Great idea to get projector first and decide how big you want the screen. Bed sheets work OK for a temporary screen ;-)

I am not an audiophile and I do notice the sound coming from below the screen. It will eventually bother me enough to do something about it.

I was eagerly planning on upgrading to 4K HDR in early 2019 and am surprised by the lack of enthusiasm. I have to give more thought. Great information.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

I am not an audiophile and I do notice the sound coming from below the screen. It will eventually bother me enough to do something about it.

This bothered me for 10 years. When I built my room the first time I should have built a false wall and went AT, but they were expensive back then. I had a 2.35 screen and when I started streaming the anamorphic lens and vertical stretch became an issue as I could not do that in streaming apps. So I decided to go with a 16x9 screen. This prompted me to force myself to go AT and what I did was build a partial false wall to surround the screen. I am SOOOO happy I did all this. Now I forget that I even have speakers back there. The sound just comes from the image.

 

[Danzilla31]

This bothered me for 10 years. When I built my room the first time I should have built a false wall and went AT, but they were expensive back then. I had a 2.35 screen and when I started streaming the anamorphic lens and vertical stretch became an issue as I could not do that in streaming apps. So I decided to go with a 16x9 screen. This prompted me to force myself to go AT and what I did was build a partial false wall to surround the screen. I am SOOOO happy I did all this. Now I forget that I even have speakers back there. The sound just comes from the image.

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Hey nice set Up beautiful room! Is that 2 SVS cylinder subs I see set up there?

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Hey nice set Up beautiful room! Is that 2 SVS cylinder subs I see set up there?

Yup! I had one for years which honestly was enough. When I built that screen wall it looked funny with just one sub on one side, so I ordered one for the other side mainly for looks lol. I found the last one in existence, an open box buy on ebay but SVS gave me a full 5 year warranty on it. They actually sound pretty amazing together.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I am really surprised that you think HDR is crap. From everything, I've read its the 4K that's the marketing gimmick, at least with flat panels. HDR is really what makes the picture so much better than 1080P. I see you are an installer so you are a lot more connected then I am. I was really under the impression that dynamic HDR coupled with a high-end OLED was the holy grail of picture quality.

HDR is marketing, not reality. Reality is the REC2020 color space and expanded luminance when it comes to displays.
For photography and videography, HDR actually means something as it takes the limited dynamic range of a image and over/under exposes the image to allow for greater detail in shadows and in highlights. But, for video playback, you can't do that. You get what is presented, and that's not really 'HDR', that's just 4:4:4 video and the improved luminance information. But, it's being marketed as HDR instead of having been designed into the system from the ground up. It's made much worse by competing formats that have, basically, zero added value.

For front projection, which lives on 'peak' brightness at all times, the ability to deliver specular highlights is just impossible and any marketing about HDR support becomes nearly meaningless because projectors can't actually do it at all. They can play back the content, but they will never have a sun that blinds you. There will never be a reflection that does the same. It's just the same 'white' that is used everywhere else. If it isn't, then you likely will find the image to be dull and the reduced typical contrast will not be enjoyable. At some point, perhaps we will see 10,000+ lumen projectors that are a couple of grand that have 5,000:1 real world contrast, but right now, people are happy with their 1,400:1 contrast projectors and that's as good as you get. HDR demands much more than that and much higher brightness... Since projectors can't deliver that, the entire concept becomes quite meaningless.

We are back to the singular concept of how well a projector performs with: Contrast, Color Saturation, Motion Handling, Resolution, Black Level, Shadow Detail, and Highlight Detail.

Not that those are even considerations for most of the buyers out there, but around these parts, those things do matter.

 

[Ras777]

BMXTRIX thank you for that explanation! I appreciate getting this type of information from someone who has the technical background to see thru the marketing hype. As I'm sure you are aware this can be quite challenging for even the above average consumer. This forum will be instrumental in the next several months in my decision to purchase a PJ or a new TV. Is there anything that you think I should consider when making my decision? What would be your first choice in PJ and TV with a $5000 budget? I have a dedicated HT room 21x18x8. Thank you.

 

[BMXTRIX]

BMXTRIX thank you for that explanation! I appreciate getting this type of information from someone who has the technical background to see thru the marketing hype. As I'm sure you are aware this can be quite challenging for even the above average consumer. This forum will be instrumental in the next several months in my decision to purchase a PJ or a new TV. Is there anything that you think I should consider when making my decision? What would be your first choice in PJ and TV with a $5000 budget? I have a dedicated HT room 21x18x8. Thank you.

A projector AND a TV? That gets tricky and is worth its own thread for discussion. As with all setups, there is a lot of discussion to be made. A good retractable screen is $2,000 if your intent is to have a screen drop in front of the TV. That's a big hit on the budget. So, it is going to be another discussion, perhaps in another topic if you want to start one.

 

[Ras777]

BMXTRIX sorry for the confusion I am trying to decide which path to go down. Ultimately It needs to be one or the other. I like the idea of a big screen but am concerned how much picture quality I will lose compared to a comparatively priced TV.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Projectors can have all the resolution of current TVs and can deliver contrast that matches pretty much anything out there other than the best OLED televisions. But, you have to have the right room to achieve this.

Where they excel, and televisions just can't touch them, is in regards to visual immersion. That you can have a bunch of friends over and the experience can be great for all of them. With proper lighting and proper room treatment, the visual quality will match some of the best televisions on the market. What is missing most will be the absolute brightness which televisions can reach. But, in a properly treated room, this brightness is almost never actually missed.

Hopefully in the next couple of years we will Sony and JVC come under the $5K mark for native 4K projectors.

 

[Danzilla31]

BMXTRIX sorry for the confusion I am trying to decide which path to go down. Ultimately It needs to be one or the other. I like the idea of a big screen but am concerned how much picture quality I will lose compared to a comparatively priced TV.

I went ahead and went with a starter one for now I'll keep you posted on how it goes once I get it set up. I was going to purchase a new TV this year. But a fella in town runs a shop rebuilds them and builds screens he's retired and does it for the love of it and he puts on a good warranty so for $600 I got a nice 120inch screen and I got the Optoma HT26 I believe? Names not coming to me right now.

But I tell you this even in his shop on his screen with lighting coming it looked just as good as my very nice 1080p TV I have.

And the immersion like has been mentioned there's nothing like it I'll never go back to being happy with just a TV again.

My situation will be different then yours because mine is going in a living room vs yours going in a dedicated room. But I'll post over here as I set it up so you can learn from my experiences.

 

[APORTO]

I have a 1080P projector on a 125" screen in a dedicated room and a 65" UHD in living room. There are trade-offs to both. I love the immersive movie theater experience and watch movies several times a week. However, I don't think I would like it as my primary source. It is a hassle to darken room, turn on projector, sub, HTR, find the right audio decoder, etc.. If I watch older movies, cable TV, news, sitcoms, etc., I use the 65" TV in living room. If I watch new movies and want the full theater experience, I go to dedicated room.
The 1080P gives a good picture and there is a noticeable difference between content (I can tell when a movie was filmed with poor quality). I don't know if it is the overall experience or TV has better up scaling, but a high quality picture (bluray) is better (awe inspiring) on the projector and a low quality source is more noticeable/annoying on the projector.
It would be interesting to hear more opinions from people using a projector as primary TV.

 

[Ras777]

Danzilla31 thanks for the info, I would appreciate those updates. Aporto you make a very good point about using it as your primary source. I need to think about that even though I do have a TV in the family room and bedroom I tend to gravitate almost every night in my HT room where it's most comfortable.

 

[Danzilla31]

I have a 1080P projector on a 125" screen in a dedicated room and a 65" UHD in living room. There are trade-offs to both. I love the immersive movie theater experience and watch movies several times a week. However, I don't think I would like it as my primary source. It is a hassle to darken room, turn on projector, sub, HTR, find the right audio decoder, etc.. If I watch older movies, cable TV, news, sitcoms, etc., I use the 65" TV in living room. If I watch new movies and want the full theater experience, I go to dedicated room.
The 1080P gives a good picture and there is a noticeable difference between content (I can tell when a movie was filmed with poor quality). I don't know if it is the overall experience or TV has better up scaling, but a high quality picture (bluray) is better (awe inspiring) on the projector and a low quality source is more noticeable/annoying on the projector.
It would be interesting to hear more opinions from people using a projector as primary TV.

Once I get this bad boy set up 2morrow and have some time to watch it I'll for sure let you know because it will be my primary tv

 

[Danzilla31]

Danzilla31 thanks for the info, I would appreciate those updates. Aporto you make a very good point about using it as your primary source. I need to think about that even though I do have a TV in the family room and bedroom I tend to gravitate almost every night in my HT room where it's most comfortable.

Ok here's the pics and then I'll send you what I learned.

 

[Danzilla31]

Ok here's the pics and then I'll send you what I learned.
View attachment 27235

Ok so first off I was shocked at how well this held up in light. It does really well with ambient light and at night the picture is just friggin amazing. I've heard horror stories about how the light and an untreated room can play havoc with a projector. It does but nowhere near what I thought it would. Wish I would have taken this plunge earlier

I was also amazed at how simple it was to setup. I opted not to go for a ceiling mount. I like the idea of being able to access the projector and cords easily and out in the open. Running 35 ft HDMI cords in the ceiling and if something goes bad you gotta get up there? No thank you everything runs under the rug on the floor still looks slick and setup is so easy that way.

Calibration was super easy you just center run the test grid use the keystones and zoom etc to set it up just right and voila. It's all good to go. As I played movies I got the color and other settings tweaked to my satisfaction. Really pain free.

The hardest part was really mounting the screen cuz it's so large and heavy and making sure it's level is tough. But the projector was stupid easy. Now when I need a new one I'll just basically plug setup and play

The visuals are amazing! As good as my 1080p TV easily. And the immersion is the best. Now with killer audio to go with a killer big ol screen I just lost man.

In conclusion I will never in ceartin parts of the house EVER go without a projector again. I bought a better model since I liked this starter one so much an Epson home cinema 4000 and as soon as it's setup that ones going in my bedroom. For sure. Hope some of that helps I'll post more tommorow

 

[Danzilla31]

Ok so first off I was shocked at how well this held up in light. It does really well with ambient light and at night the picture is just friggin amazing. I've heard horror stories about how the light and an untreated room can play havoc with a projector. It does but nowhere near what I thought it would. Wish I would have taken this plunge earlier

I was also amazed at how simple it was to setup. I opted not to go for a ceiling mount. I like the idea of being able to access the projector and cords easily and out in the open. Running 35 ft HDMI cords in the ceiling and if something goes bad you gotta get up there? No thank you everything runs under the rug on the floor still looks slick and setup is so easy that way.

Calibration was super easy you just center run the test grid use the keystones and zoom etc to set it up just right and voila. It's all good to go. As I played movies I got the color and other settings tweaked to my satisfaction. Really pain free.

The hardest part was really mounting the screen cuz it's so large and heavy and making sure it's level is tough. But the projector was stupid easy. Now when I need a new one I'll just basically plug setup and play

The visuals are amazing! As good as my 1080p TV easily. And the immersion is the best. Now with killer audio to go with a killer big ol screen I just lost man.

In conclusion I will never in ceartin parts of the house EVER go without a projector again. I bought a better model since I liked this starter one so much an Epson home cinema 4000 and as soon as it's setup that ones going in my bedroom. For sure. Hope some of that helps I'll post more tommorow

This whole setup ran me $725 bucks. For everything including the install. For a picture that good on a screen that size. Man that's crazy stupid how affordable that is

 

[snakeeyes]

This whole setup ran me $725 bucks. For everything including the install. For a picture that good on a screen that size. Man that's crazy stupid how affordable that is

That big room was begging for that screen. Well done!

 

[Ras777]

Danzilla thank you very much for that information. I am so glad to hear about your experience! Have you had much experience just watching regular television with it? Is there anything about the set up that would give you reservations about using it as a daily use television?

 

[Danzilla31]

Danzilla thank you very much for that information. I am so glad to hear about your experience! Have you had much experience just watching regular television with it? Is there anything about the set up that would give you reservations about using it as a daily use television?

Hell yes I've watched Netflix and My direct TV on it. And they both look friggin awesome. I have no problem using this as my main TV like I said even with some ambient light in the day the picture still looks pretty darn good more then good enough to watch for me! Very happy I did this for movies streaming and tv watching!

 

[Danzilla31]

That big room was begging for that screen. Well done!

Thank you my friend!