The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

[Bookmark]

One thing we’re sure about is that we do have different setup.

Yes the setups are wildly different, your's is a really nice room, well laid out. Mine is a dog pile, with junk all around and speakers located where I could. You mains/base layer 20hz to 20Khz +- 3dB and huge, mine only go down to about 50hz -3dB. You have 9 subs and I barely get to use 1. Every single bass/mid driver is either the same size or bigger. 8" overheads are 2-3" bigger, than the mismatched pair of Wharfdale 7.2 or Elac Debut B6s I use for heights.

As I told @PENG , it’s good to have your ATMOS speakers close to you.

My Heights are roughly 3.6m, 12' and 3m, 10' away from the MLP. I know the screen shot shows 2ish but there is a 1m setting in the Marantz, since I didn't like setting it to 0.

 

[Bookmark]

I think your real problem is you have way too many subs and you need to remove them all.

I think we can still agree, having Atmos or Dts X (maybe) discs is preferable to not. The sales pitch worked, and it is worth upgrading to the full experience and PP&Z is a damn fine film, whatever the format. and I still want the Atmos version.

Last night I watched Event Horizon with high hopes and alas was a bit underwhelmed. There are moments, but it is not a stand out. In contrast, zero expectations really, Exorcist, The Beginning, blew me away. It was brilliant. All the more so considering this is a 2004 Dvd with only Dolby Digital 5.1 @ 384kps. Start to finish this is a joy of surround all around. The crows, the flies, the butterflies, the hyenas, the dust storms, the demonic voices, even just the incidentals and the musics. As an up mix, Neural X, it competes with the best.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0204313/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes the setups are wildly different, your's is a really nice room, well laid out. Mine is a dog pile, with junk all around and speakers located where I could. You mains/base layer 20hz to 20Khz +- 3dB and huge, mine only go down to about 50hz -3dB. You have 9 subs and I barely get to use 1. Every single bass/mid driver is either the same size or bigger. 8" overheads are 2-3" bigger, than the mismatched pair of Wharfdale 7.2 or Elac Debut B6s I use for heights.

My Heights are roughly 3.6m, 12' and 3m, 10' away from the MLP. I know the screen shot shows 2ish but there is a 1m setting in the Marantz, since I didn't like setting it to 0.
View attachment 26726

If it sounds great, keep it the same. Changing it to make it more “perfect” by-the-book mighty ironically make it sound less stellar.

Does your ATMOS sound better than the commercial ATMOS?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This thread is getting a little long to read through.. I am considering jury rigging my idling Minimus 7 and Polk satellite (RM6005 iirc) just to get some feel, before finalizing what speakers to get. So I will need a BR title that has "maximum" Atmos effects for those tiny speakers. Any suggestions?

If you already have some extra speakers, just them. They may sound just as good as more expensive speakers.

 

[Bookmark]

Does your ATMOS sound better than the commercial ATMOS?

It's definitely better than my local Odeon, however I will concede, reluctantly, their bass might be better.

 

[andyblackcat]

It's definitely better than my local Odeon, however I will concede, reluctantly, their bass might be better.

Not as good as what THX was at the CIC/UCI High Wycombe where the bass sub bass literally pressing against your body even when standing at the back of the auditorium from head to body arms legs and even my shoes a wave of pressure frequencies so uniform I'd never forget that January 1990, "Arachnophobia" Dolby SR (1990) the Trevor Jones score literally 15 minutes of bass against my chest face my whole body!

That was a sick sub bass bass THX cinema one of few of the best in the United Kingdom. Even the softer scenes in the film was pressing intrusively against my body with a pleasing delight smile of how that auditorium was designed, tuned and Eq. Not even imax came near with 70mm at the ill-fated Bournemouth imax that was demolished.

The isense doesn't even use a baffle wall like THX does.

I have to say Fantastic Beasts 2 last Friday the bass wasn't anywhere near to THX. It was okay. But sure not even near to even SENSURROUND and my body and mind have a good recall.

 

[PENG]

Overall I was very impressed with NeuralX, which is no longer a surprise to me since both DSU and NeuralX are excellent.

As I’ve said before, I think NeuralX and DSU have done things that are even better than some DTSX and ATMOS contents, especially DTSX .

Very informative post!! The difference between sound coming from the top and ground is very extreme though, which one makes more sense, i.e. realistic to you based on the scene?

 

[PENG]

If I had some cotton thread I think it would be longer than this thread.

You never know, I am here now..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Very informative post!! The difference between sound coming from the top and ground is very extreme though, which one makes more sense, i.e. realistic to you based on the scene?

Overhead sound makes more sense - sound of things from overhead (overhead helicopters, overhead train, overhead cars on bridge, etc.).

However, @Bookmark was able to hear those same scenes from overhead speakers, which I did not.

But we conclude that our setups are very different.

So perhaps your setup may produce the same results as Bookmark, which means you may not even need Atmos BDs if you can get the same sound up-mixed with DSU and Neural:X.

Apparently for me, the Atmos BD produced much louder and pronounced overhead sounds for those scenes. When those scenes were up-mixed with NeuralX, the sounds from overhead may have been present, but just not loud enough for me to be able to hear them, but maybe you might be able to hear them with 8 FT ceiling.

So try watching The Equalizer BD in DTSHD-MA up-mixed with NeuralX and check out some of those scenes. If you can hear them overhead clearly, then it proves that you don't even need to buy the Atmos BD!

Imagine that!

Being able to hear the same ATMOS effects by just using DSU and NeuralX on NON-Atmos BD!

That will produce better sound than most commercial Atmos theaters and save you a ton!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@PENG, an analogy I want to make is that ATMOS is like the "Offense" that gets all the glory, but DSU and NeuralX are like the "Defense" that may win the game for you!

DSU and NeuralX are the secret weapons.

I am reposting this:

The Dark Knight Rises DTSHD-MA upmixed in DTS NeuralX.

The scene around 00:50:55 where the Bat-Wing takes off from the dark alley. It sounds like the Batwing is hovering above your room! Amazingly impressive! And this is not ATMOS, but upmixed using NeuralX.

Man, that overhead action from NeuralX sounds better than any DTSX contents I’ve seen.

Cops in the tunnel scene- when the bombs went off, I could hear the tunnels explode from overhead.

Pretty much every time the Batwing flies overhead I can hear it from the ceiling speakers.

That awesome Batman theme song plays overhead.

For me personally, Dark Knight Rises DTS-HD MA upmixed with Neural:X sounds better than most DTS:X movies and probably many ATMOS movies.

BTW, I use DSU for Dolby contents and NeuralX for DTS contents.

 

[PENG]

@PENG, an analogy I want to make is that ATMOS is like the "Offense" that gets all the glory, but DSU and NeuralX are like the "Defense" that may win the game for you!

DSU and NeuralX are the secret weapons.

I am reposting this:

The Dark Knight Rises DTSHD-MA upmixed in DTS NeuralX.

The scene around 00:50:55 where the Bat-Wing takes off from the dark alley. It sounds like the Batwing is hovering above your room! Amazingly impressive! And this is not ATMOS, but upmixed using NeuralX.

Man, that overhead action from NeuralX sounds better than any DTSX contents I’ve seen.

Cops in the tunnel scene- when the bombs went off, I could hear the tunnels explode from overhead.

Pretty much every time the Batwing flies overhead I can hear it from the ceiling speakers.

That awesome Batman theme song plays overhead.

For me personally, Dark Knight Rises DTS-HD MA upmixed with Neural:X sounds better than most DTS:X movies and probably many ATMOS movies.

BTW, I use DSU for Dolby contents and NeuralX for DTS contents.

Very interesting, it is supposed to be object oriented so ideally the sound could appear to come from anywhere, as long as it follows the path of the object, even just approximately will be good enough for me.

 

[Bookmark]

I am in total agreement with Acudef. A Good Atmos(Dts:X) is very good, but with all things, there can be a few turkeys out there. Good up mixes are there to be found. I for example did not find either Tom Cruise's Mummy or John Wick particularly great. Both are Atmos and while both have moments, neither really stood out for me. Now others have posted they sound great, best ever. This here, could easily be due to my set up as is. It was always my intention, to do like most others and go with overheads. The hunger grabbed me and I've currently got heights.

Heights or Overheads may not of course be the universal panacea for all movies. So some may sound better or worse than others, depending upon the layout configurations. This could be especially true for some up mixes. I think, Dolby was primarily intended to use overheads and for those that could not, the bouncers. Where as Dts were happy with the height solution.

I will point out, Acudef is running 5.9.4 and I am doing 7.1.4 and my back surrounds are pretty near to the back heights (only a about 3 feet higher) so what he is hearing purely from the bass layer, I could be too and possibly the heights mirror the front and rears more than overheads, which are I believe more discreet.

Who knows, one day I may go mad and try to add overheads as well as heights. I have the amp channels, just not the speakers or any way to mount them at the moment.

 

[Bookmark]

UCI High Wycombe

I was there in the 90s, never saw a film, but we did do their ticket printing. credit card handling and concessions tills. We also did pretty much every other multiplex in the country.

 

[andyblackcat]

@PENG, an analogy I want to make is that ATMOS is like the "Offense" that gets all the glory, but DSU and NeuralX are like the "Defense" that may win the game for you!

DSU and NeuralX are the secret weapons.

I am reposting this:

The Dark Knight Rises DTSHD-MA upmixed in DTS NeuralX.

The scene around 00:50:55 where the Bat-Wing takes off from the dark alley. It sounds like the Batwing is hovering above your room! Amazingly impressive! And this is not ATMOS, but upmixed using NeuralX.

Man, that overhead action from NeuralX sounds better than any DTSX contents I’ve seen.

Cops in the tunnel scene- when the bombs went off, I could hear the tunnels explode from overhead.

Pretty much every time the Batwing flies overhead I can hear it from the ceiling speakers.

That awesome Batman theme song plays overhead.

For me personally, Dark Knight Rises DTS-HD MA upmixed with Neural:X sounds better than most DTS:X movies and probably many ATMOS movies.

BTW, I use DSU for Dolby contents and NeuralX for DTS contents.

Bane has a question. What did the Bat mode do you use.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am in total agreement with Acudef. A Good Atmos(Dts:X) is very good, but with all things, there can be a few turkeys out there. Good up mixes are there to be found. I for example did not find either Tom Cruise's Mummy or John Wick particularly great. Both are Atmos and while both have moments, neither really stood out for me. Now others have posted they sound great, best ever. This here, could easily be due to my set up as is. It was always my intention, to do like most others and go with overheads. The hunger grabbed me and I've currently got heights.

Heights or Overheads may not of course be the universal panacea for all movies. So some may sound better or worse than others, depending upon the layout configurations. This could be especially true for some up mixes. I think, Dolby was primarily intended to use overheads and for those that could not, the bouncers. Where as Dts were happy with the height solution.

I will point out, Acudef is running 5.9.4 and I am doing 7.1.4 and my back surrounds are pretty near to the back heights (only a about 3 feet higher) so what he is hearing purely from the bass layer, I could be too and possibly the heights mirror the front and rears more than overheads, which are I believe more discreet.

Who knows, one day I may go mad and try to add overheads as well as heights. I have the amp channels, just not the speakers or any way to mount them at the moment.

I saw John Wick in Atmos yesterday. I agree that it is underwhelming. I think Dark Knight Rises upmixed with NeuralX sounded better!

The best thing is probably to go andyblackcat's route and have plenty of speakers top, ground, bottom.

I think if I could go back in time, I would make my HT room 12' ceiling (not 14') and have 8 ceiling speakers - 4 Atmos and 4 Heights just in case the DSU/NeuralX doesn't get enough to the Atmos speakers.

 

[Bookmark]

I think if I could go back in time, I would make my HT room 12' ceiling

Don't be too hasty, they will probably invent something that needs the extra height.

Not tried the Nolan Batman trilogy, but it's likely on the cards.

Tonight however
Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, Extended edition, 3 hours 20 + 30mins of credits. 6.1 Dts HDMA up mixed with Neural X.

The birthday party, the pubs in Hobbiton and Bree and when ever the Black riders show up or the One Ring is worn are all nicely up mixed. Oddly the rain entering Bree and atop Saruman's tower is almost entirely from the front. However vocal moments with Saruman, Arwen, Elrond(flashback) and the council meeting are all very good. Saruman's Crow spies, Caradhras, wind, Gandalf and Saruman vocals are fine, however the avalanche is again largely from the front.

Khazad-dûm/Moria, doors opening all up the fronts, vocal echos, the lake monster and collapse of the entrance. Drums in the deep, "Fool of a Took" on wards including the orc battle, cave troll, the orc horde and the battle with the Balrog are all excellent.

Lothlorien, Galadriel's inner greetings overhead, the mirror scene, the gifts of Galadriel vocals elevated above the centre. And so to the final battle with Saruman's fighting Uruk-Hai very well handled both all around and above including the death of Boromir.

Howard Shore's score, is of course, excellent throughout, especially with the choirs overhead.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies will be similar when comparing ATMOS vs NeuralX.

Anything significant overhead like dragons and flying creatures?

 

[Bookmark]

Anything significant overhead like dragons and flying creatures?

It is amazing for the choral moments in the score, with orchestra up the front and the choir overhead left and right. So there is a fair bit of overhead throughout all the films with that.

For Dragons, although there is a fire work one in the first LoTR FoR at the start, it's really just the explosion that works over head. For the "real" Dragon then it is the third Hobbit, Battle of the Five Armies, the first dozen minutes with Smaug swoops, flaps and screeches overhead and flaming destruction of Laketown. There is also probably a bit at the end of the second, Desolation of Smaug. Fight with the dwarves and escape from Erebor. Bendict's Smaug voice also booms and reverberates nicely.

In LoTR is mostly the Nazgul's winged serpents, once the horses are gone from the first film. First appearance is in The Two Towers about 50min, then again, the near the end at Osgiliath. The big showdown is in the third film, Return of the King with the attack on Minas Tirith. First the attacks on the ballista and then again on the main battle with Theoden (Bernard Hill) and Eowyn (Miranda Otto). They don't usually last that long.

It is not an endless set of overhead moments, but with the music, battles and incidentals like the voice overs, Sauron moments there is a fair bit in total.

The LoTR films are I think all 6.1. Initially on the Dvds it was Dts ES, with the move to Bluray it is Dts HDMA, but still only the 6.1. The Hobbit films are all 7.1 Dts HDMA on bluray. I don't believe I ever had a copy of the Dvds. Peter Jackson and co, have made a fair bit out of us with the various releases. Currently there is no UHD version or plans, at the moment, but it is inevitable. Hopefully they will remaster the audio, although the Hobbit trilogy stands the better chance there. There is about 15-30mins additional in each of the Trilogy films extended editions which is usually worth it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is amazing for the choral moments in the score, with orchestra up the front and the choir overhead left and right. So there is a fair bit of overhead throughout all the films with that.

For Dragons, although there is a fire work one in the first LoTR FoR at the start, it's really just the explosion that works over head. For the "real" Dragon then it is the third Hobbit, Battle of the Five Armies, the first dozen minutes with Smaug swoops, flaps and screeches overhead and flaming destruction of Laketown. There is also probably a bit at the end of the second, Desolation of Smaug. Fight with the dwarves and escape from Erebor. Bendict's Smaug voice also booms and reverberates nicely.

In LoTR is mostly the Nazgul's winged serpents, once the horses are gone from the first film. First appearance is in The Two Towers about 50min, then again, the near the end at Osgiliath. The big showdown is in the third film, Return of the King with the attack on Minas Tirith. First the attacks on the ballista and then again on the main battle with Theoden (Bernard Hill) and Eowyn (Miranda Otto). They don't usually last that long.

It is not an endless set of overhead moments, but with the music, battles and incidentals like the voice overs, Sauron moments there is a fair bit in total.

The LoTR films are I think all 6.1. Initially on the Dvds it was Dts ES, with the move to Bluray it is Dts HDMA, but still only the 6.1. The Hobbit films are all 7.1 Dts HDMA on bluray. I don't believe I ever had a copy of the Dvds. Peter Jackson and co, have made a fair bit out of us with the various releases. Currently there is no UHD version or plans, at the moment, but it is inevitable. Hopefully they will remaster the audio, although the Hobbit trilogy stands the better chance there. There is about 15-30mins additional in each of the Trilogy films extended editions which is usually worth it.

You sure know your LOTR!

If they ever remaster them in UHD/Atmos, I will have re-watch the LOTR and Hobbit trilogy. Otherwise, not.

 

[snakeeyes]

Not too worried about 6.1 or 7.1 since I’m 5.1 and heading to 5.1.4 soon. The LOTR and Hobbit movies are entertaining but I don’t require the extra 15 min on the 3 hr a piece discs.