4 uls-15 mk2’s vs 4 pb-2000’s

[Reckel]

Look, when I joined this forum it was to get advice/opinions from people who enjoy this hobby or may do it as a living or in to this more than me. I love this hobby, although can be expensive but still, it’s great. I’ve appreciated all the responses I’ve gotten and opinions, all of you are very knowledgeable. Honestly everything all boils down to peoples personal preference which is totally fine, that’s how it should be. You buy n set up whatever speakers/subs you want to how it sounds good to the individual. I use common sense in life n at my job with what I do which is different from most. And I’m using common sense to say I guarantee the subs I have can not compete in overall performance with any of the companies that have been mentioned

 

[Auditor55]

Elitist jargon? Good grief. IMO a true subwoofer operates down to the extent of human hearing, i.e. 20hz. If a sub operated only from 60-200hz it would be fairly meaningless IMO.

That's your own preference or your own standard. If that's what you like, cool. However, your definition, factually speaking, isn't what defines a true subwoofer.

 

[Reckel]

I’m looking for something that goes down to 20hz maybe even a little lower. I don’t listen at reference n don’t plan to but I’m usually between -15 - -10 n -15 is dam loud in my room n it’s plenty. I want a quality real sub n mine imo are ok but not a true sub

 

[Auditor55]

Look, when I joined this forum it was to get advice/opinions from people who enjoy this hobby or may do it as a living or in to this more than me. I love this hobby, although can be expensive but still, it’s great. I’ve appreciated all the responses I’ve gotten and opinions, all of you are very knowledgeable. Honestly everything all boils down to peoples personal preference which is totally fine, that’s how it should be. You buy n set up whatever speakers/subs you want to how it sounds good to the individual. I use common sense in life n at my job with what I do which is different from most. And I’m using common sense to say I guarantee the subs I have can not compete in overall performance with any of the companies that have been mentioned

Acknowledged, but that doesn't mean that the brand of subs you have aren't true subwoofers, that's all I'm saying. That's just like saying that Porsche, Mercedes, BMW's might be better overall performing cars than say Toyota, however that doesn't that mean Toyotas aren't true cars.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Acknowledged, but that doesn't mean that the brand of subs you have aren't true subwoofers, that's all I'm saying. That's just like saying that Porsche, Mercedes, BMW's might be better overall performing cars than say Toyota, however that doesn't that mean Toyotas aren't true cars.

So 200ish posts and you randomly jump in and tKe something out of context for no other reason than to split hairs on some stupid definition of what a subwoofer is? We ALL know what a subwoofer is, by definition and so what was your point???

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Another popular test everyone loves to use is the Edge of Tomorrow intro which has a bass sweep down to single digits. It can damage subs without a limiter and is often used to show off.

This pursuit of ultimate low level LFE is in the end pointless for most people. You have nutcases on Avs (no offence to nutcases here ) who run 8x 18"monsters in a 1000cuft closed room and still think its not enough.

You have to pick between extension, which is very very $$$ to chase, and mid bass output, which is the 'chest slam' that most people know and want. There are plenty of very respected members on Avs who say that a sub designed for mid-bass (like the DIY Flex/VBSS) is actually better overall.

Its the age old debate between sealed vs ported.

Agreed. Bass I love you puckers me right up!
Most people don’t care about single digits, and I’m certainly one, since even my waf has limits. Fwiw, I think most of us here agree about sealed vs ported so I think that’s been covered. I don’t however think you have to choose between midbass and extension. And those nutcases? I’d like to sit in one of their rooms just once. I feel like it would be like this...

 

[Reckel]

That's your own preference or your own standard. If that's what you like, cool. However, your definition, factually speaking, isn't what defines a true subwoofer.

Exactly man, my preference my opinion. Just like you have your own preferences n opinions. I’m not forcing my own opinions or preferences on someone, that’s bs. I’d give my advice or a suggestion. A true subwoofer should be able to handle n produce quality bass in high n low frequencies not just in one frequency like mine do

 

[Reckel]

I’m to goddam old to argue over crap like this. Point is, you don’t agree with me or anyone else that’s been talking with me n that’s fine but that’s ur opinion. Ur definitely not gonna push ur opinion on me or anyone else, I listen but I/we don’t have to agree, which we don’t n you don’t like it

 

[Defcon]

I’m looking for something that goes down to 20hz maybe even a little lower. I don’t listen at reference n don’t plan to but I’m usually between -15 - -10 n -15 is dam loud in my room n it’s plenty. I want a quality real sub n mine imo are ok but not a true sub

I went through the same journey. Have you listened to the Svs in your home? They offer a free 45 home trial that will cost you nothing.

If I might make a suggestion - there is a big jump from the mass market subs like the Bic to a 'true' sub like the Hsu/Svs. After that, the jumps aren't that great. Everyone has a preference - its important for you to find out if you really want high output at very low frequencies or if you like mid bass slam more.

I'd suggest you first of all try a single PB-2000 and see how it compares to your 4 subs. Then you should try to find other enthusiasts who live near you with better gear who can give you a demo, and listen to your favorite movies/music on different types - e.g. sealed vs ported and see if you form a preference. Also you can find out which is the right size - 12", 15", 18" etc and how many. There are many decisions. I'd also suggest you give a call to Tom V from PSA, or chat on their website, he is very helpful and is an expert (he's one of the founders of Svs).

I did the same thing and it helped me greatly in narrowing my decisions, saving $$ and ultimately being happier with my choices. There is no end to this hobby and no perfect answer, you have stated your goals very clearly and I'm just trying to help.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's your own preference or your own standard. If that's what you like, cool. However, your definition, factually speaking, isn't what defines a true subwoofer.

Sure, it's open to use and interpretation to an extent, but FWIW you are the only one I've ever seen mention a qualifaction of merely 200hz which is rather useless For this discussion 20 is more the goal than your 200hz sub and you know it.

 

[lovinthehd]

I’m looking for something that goes down to 20hz maybe even a little lower. I don’t listen at reference n don’t plan to but I’m usually between -15 - -10 n -15 is dam loud in my room n it’s plenty. I want a quality real sub n mine imo are ok but not a true sub

That's an important part of your goals. Difference between running at reference levels rather than -10 to -15 down is significantly different.

 

[shadyJ]

So would that mean one should be preferred for music while the other should be preferred for movies?

Not necessarily. It depends on personal taste. The Hsu has more output but the SVS has deeper extension. That could go either way for personal taste in movies or music.

 

[shadyJ]

Ed from svs suggested that I cross my towers at 60hz and have everything else set to 80hz. Since I’ve had the speakers I’ve been using 80hz, would I see any benefit with towers at 60hz?

Personally I think you should try a higher crossover than 80 Hz. I might try 100 or 125 Hz with a system like yours. Since your subs are spread throughout the room, there won't be any localization issues as there tends to be when higher crossover frequencies are used. And the subs, even your BIC Acoustech subs, will have a lot more output capability in mid bass frequencies than your tower speakers. I would experiment with different settings to see what you like the most, and keep whatever you prefer.

 

[Reckel]

Personally I think you should try a higher crossover than 80 Hz. I might try 100 or 125 Hz with a system like yours. Since your subs are spread throughout the room, there won't be any localization issues as there tends to be when higher crossover frequencies are used. And the subs, even your BIC Acoustech subs, will have a lot more output capability in mid bass frequencies than your tower speakers. I would experiment with different settings to see what you like the most, and keep whatever you prefer.

Really?

 

[Reckel]

Really?

Come Monday I’m ordering 2 vtf3s to start. There not open on weekends, come December if I feel I need (want) 2 more, I’ll order another 2

 

[shadyJ]

The bics apparently go down to 22hz, I don’t believe that n I think they’re rolling off quick a lot higher. Bics are not in the same league as any of the companies we’ve discussed. They’re good on the high end but they ain’t digging deep

You are correct. The BICs have been measured here. It looks to me like their -3dB point is closer to 30 Hz than 20. Not to say they are bad subs, they are good for the money and are known to be a very good value, but 20 Hz is well below their port tuning.

 

[Reckel]

Really?

You don’t think the klipsch are crappy do you?

 

[shadyJ]

That's why I am in favor of subs with built in room correction (like the new Svs) but they are not as powerful/configurable and thus not popular on forums.

Not to get pedantic, but the new SVS subs do not have built-in room correction. They do have a good parametric equalizer onboard, but that isn't quite the same thing. The new Martin-Logan Dynamos and Paradigm Defiance subs do have built-in room correction, as they are compatible with Anthem's Mobile ARC app.

 

[Reckel]

You don’t think the klipsch are crappy do you?

So I’m wrong for thinking they’re not true subs

 

[Reckel]

Not to get pedantic, but the new SVS subs do not have built-in room correction. They do have a good parametric equalizer onboard, but that isn't quite the same thing. The new Martin-Logan Dynamos and Paradigm Defiance subs do have built-in room correction, as they are compatible with Anthem's Mobile ARC app.

Yea I saw that, I looked at all those too