The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Depends largely upon the brand of AVR/processor... Yamaha is the only major audio brand that goes through the rigorous HDMI certification process. Most brands self-certify for HDMI to save $ and have a faster to market delivery schedule. But fail to test their products adequately for HDMI interoperability between other brands HDMI components so when connecting up to an AVR or processor is hit or miss..

This is a primary reason we sell/install a lot of Yamaha HDMI products, since we guarantee our installs for 5 years makes little sense to save a few $ if we have to send out a tech on a trouble shooting call... However I will concede in the later generations of branded HDMI products they do seem to work better together than compared to the earlier days of HDMI...

Just my $0.02...

Well, I am very impressed with my Yamaha CX-A5100 in terms of SQ (STRAIGHT THROUGH bypass mode, all YPAO and DSP off), Remote App, and HDMI.

I reapplied YPAO with the tripod 15” higher than ear level. It might have gotten better results. But YPAO Room Correction still sounds like DSP Mode to me and THROUGH Bypass Mode definitely sounds the best to me.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Well, I am very impressed with my Yamaha CX-A5100 in terms of SQ (STRAIGHT THROUGH bypass mode, all YPAO and DSP off), Remote App, and HDMI.

I reapplied YPAO with the tripod 15” higher than ear level. It might have gotten better results. But YPAO Room Correction still sounds like DSP Mode to me and THROUGH Bypass Mode definitely sounds the best to me.

I’m curious, what does DSP Mode sound like to you?

 

[snakeeyes]

Well, I am very impressed with my Yamaha CX-A5100 in terms of SQ (STRAIGHT THROUGH bypass mode, all YPAO and DSP off),Remote App, and HDMI.

I reapplied YPAO with the tripod 15” higher than ear level. It might have gotten better results. But YPAO Room Correction still sounds like DSP Mode to me and THROUGH Bypass Mode definitely sounds the best to me.

Those movie dsp modes were cool back when Dolby pro logic and Dolby pro logic 2 and DTS Neo Cinema were all we had to get a 2ch signal to 5.1, but most content now is 5.1 Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital plus on cable tv and Netflix and when they are not, Dolby DSU sounds good on its own. I had RXV495, RXV630, RXV3300, and currently own RXV681 and RXA2060.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I’m curious, what does DSP Mode sound like to you?

Like something is "off" or "weird sounding" or "unnatural" or "fake". It doesn't sound like real life natural unprocessed sound.

For example, it sounds too "bright" like someone cranked up the treble Tone Controls.

Other examples of "DSP sound": Hall, Stadium, Concert, etc.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Those movie dsp modes were cool back when Dolby pro logic and Dolby pro logic 2 and DTS Neo Cinema were all we had to get a 2ch signal to 5.1, but most content now is 5.1 Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital plus on cable tv and Netflix and when they are not, Dolby DSU sounds good on its own. I had RXV495, RXV630, RXV3300, and currently own RXV681 and RXA2060.

I might have to try out those Movie DSP modes on a 2Ch source one rainy day.

You never know. There is always a chance I may like one of those modes. Very very small chance.

But in general, I would consider myself one of those audiophiles who prefer as little "processing" as possible.

 

[snakeeyes]

I might have to try out those Movie DSP modes on a 2Ch source one rainy day.

You never know. There is always a chance I may like one of those modes. Very very small chance.

But in general, I would consider myself one of those audiophiles who prefer as little "processing" as possible.

The movie dsp modes can probably be retired like VHS and DD Prologic 1 & 2.... and should I also dare to say DVD too? DVD picture sucks on a UHD 65in display.... LOL.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The movie dsp modes can probably be retired like VHS and DD Prologic 1 & 2.... and should I also dare to say DVD too? DVD picture sucks on a UHD 65in display.... LOL.

Yeah you're right- the odds of me trying some movie DSP modes is pretty slim when, as you said, practically everything (even TV shows) is in discrete MCH like Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 or higher.

What's DVD?

I have not seen a DVD in forever.

I also refuse to watch anything less than 720p.

First world problems for sure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speaking of obsolescence, what are the odds of people owning the Yamaha CX-A5100, Marantz AV8805, or even the $1K Denon X3000 and Yamaha 1000 series AVRs who still using DVD's and the legacy RCA connectors?

And if they do use RCA connections, what are the odds of them using more than one pair of RCA connectors?

 

[panteragstk]

I might have to try out those Movie DSP modes on a 2Ch source one rainy day.

You never know. There is always a chance I may like one of those modes. Very very small chance.

But in general, I would consider myself one of those audiophiles who prefer as little "processing" as possible.

The new dolby upmixer is actually pretty cool. I had it on in the living room when some tracks from The Wall came on. It actually sounded VERY similar to the DVD-Audio I own of that album. I was impressed. It is usually on in the living room for the 2ch TV sources I have and it actually doesn't mess with 2ch tracks all that much unless it finds something it "thinks" could be extended to the surround channels. Pretty cool.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Who knows, based on the positive info from this thread, I just might be a future Yamaha owner.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Who knows, based on the positive info from this thread, I just might be a future Yamaha owner.

"Who knows" is about right.

I think it depends mainly on 3 things:

1. Audyssey XT32. If you think Audyssey XT32 improves the SQ in your room over Bypass (as PENG and some others),then I don't see you going over to YPAO because I don't think YPAO is as good as XT32. With Audyssey, at least I felt that Audyssey Reference and Audyssey Flat didn't sound like DSP modes. I still preferred Audyssey Bypass, but I could actually live with Audyssey Flat. There is no way I could stand YPAO Flat or Natural. They suck. But good for me, YPAO THROUGH/BYPASS sounds awesome in my room. Otherwise, I would have returned the Yamaha.

2. Reliability. Yamaha is supposed to be more reliable than other brands. If you've had any kind of bad experience with your $7,500 Pre-pro dying after 10 years and the main authorized repair center can't fix it after 2 attempts, you just might get pissed off and order a Yamaha from Amazon to try out.

3. Price. The Denon X4400 and Yamaha A2080 are both $1600 MSRP. What if the X4400 goes on sale for $800 brand new next week and the A2080 remains $1600? I don't see too many people paying twice as much to get the A2080. But for similar price, I would get the Yamaha personally.

Bottom line, in terms of SQ, both Yamaha and Denon/Marantz can sound awesome.

But, who knows?

 

[snakeeyes]

Speaking of obsolescence, what are the odds of people owning the Yamaha CX-A5100, Marantz AV8805, or even the $1K Denon X3000 and Yamaha 1000 series AVRs who still using DVD's and the legacy RCA connectors?

And if they do use RCA connections, what are the odds of them using more than one pair of RCA connectors?

I got rid of the TT and Cassette deck. I guess maybe old video consoles might use the RCA. I rarely play video games anymore. Maybe if my nieces and nephews were visiting I would hook up the WII

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

"Who knows" is about right.

I think it depends mainly on 3 things:

1. Audyssey XT32. If you think Audyssey XT32 improves the SQ in your room over Bypass (as PENG and some others),then I don't see you going over to YPAO because I don't think YPAO is as good as XT32. With Audyssey, at least I felt that Audyssey Reference and Audyssey Flat didn't sound like DSP modes. I still preferred Audyssey Bypass, but I could actually live with Audyssey Flat. There is no way I could stand YPAO Flat or Natural. They suck. But good for me, YPAO THROUGH/BYPASS sounds awesome in my room. Otherwise, I would have returned the Yamaha.

2. Reliability. Yamaha is supposed to be more reliable than other brands. If you've had any kind of bad experience with your $7,500 Pre-pro dying after 10 years and the main authorized repair center can't fix it after 2 attempts, you just might get pissed off and order a Yamaha from Amazon to try out.

3. Price. The Denon X4400 and Yamaha A2080 are both $1600 MSRP. What if the X4400 goes on sale for $800 brand new next week and the A2080 remains $1600? I don't see too many people paying twice as much to get the A2080. But for similar price, I would get the Yamaha personally.

Bottom line, in terms of SQ, both Yamaha and Denon/Marantz can sound awesome.

But, who knows?

I already own the AVR-X4400H. I bought it on a one-day sale for almost half price. I like it, the reason I got the 4400 over the 3300 is the phono amp.

Separates for me in the future? Nah, been there done that. Couldn't hear a difference.

 

[PENG]

I already own the AVR-X4400H. I bought it on a one-day sale for almost half price. I like it, the reason I got the 4400 over the 3300 is the phono amp.

Separates for me in the future? Nah, been there done that. Couldn't hear a difference.

For me it's because I want to try Atmos, eventually, otherwise i actually prefer the 3400, lighter, cooler and a not to crowded remote, and $500 less.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

For me it's because I want to try Atmos, eventually, otherwise i actually prefer the 3400, lighter, cooler and a not to crowded remote, and $500 less.

Yes, I was going to purchase the 3400, but I wanted a phono amp. I suppose I could have gone ahead and bought the 3400 and then purchase an inexpensive external phono amp. That would have worked too.

 

[snakeeyes]

"Who knows" is about right.

I think it depends mainly on 3 things:

1. Audyssey XT32. If you think Audyssey XT32 improves the SQ in your room over Bypass (as PENG and some others),then I don't see you going over to YPAO because I don't think YPAO is as good as XT32. With Audyssey, at least I felt that Audyssey Reference and Audyssey Flat didn't sound like DSP modes. I still preferred Audyssey Bypass, but I could actually live with Audyssey Flat. There is no way I could stand YPAO Flat or Natural. They suck. But good for me, YPAO THROUGH/BYPASS sounds awesome in my room. Otherwise, I would have returned the Yamaha.

2. Reliability. Yamaha is supposed to be more reliable than other brands. If you've had any kind of bad experience with your $7,500 Pre-pro dying after 10 years and the main authorized repair center can't fix it after 2 attempts, you just might get pissed off and order a Yamaha from Amazon to try out.

3. Price. The Denon X4400 and Yamaha A2080 are both $1600 MSRP. What if the X4400 goes on sale for $800 brand new next week and the A2080 remains $1600? I don't see too many people paying twice as much to get the A2080. But for similar price, I would get the Yamaha personally.

Bottom line, in terms of SQ, both Yamaha and Denon/Marantz can sound awesome.

But, who knows?

The price on a discounted 4400 would need to be compared to a discounted 2070 as these are 2017 models. Not with the upcoming 2018 Yamaha 2080.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The price on a discounted 4400 would need to be compared to a discounted 2070 as these are 2017 models. Not with the upcoming 2018 Yamaha 2080.

The A2070 is about $1118 New on Amazon now.

What's the usual low price on the A2000 series?

For the Denon X4000's, the usual low price is $799 New.

 

[snakeeyes]

The A2070 is about $1118 New on Amazon now.

What's the usual low price on the A2000 series?

For the Denon X4000's, the usual low price is $799 New.

Think that is about as low as it gets for A2000 series. If you can find online with free shipping without sales tax, that helps.

 

[PENG]

The A2070 is about $1118 New on Amazon now.

What's the usual low price on the A2000 series?

For the Denon X4000's, the usual low price is $799 New.

For some reason, even the X4300H is going for $1000
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=electronics&field-keywords=avr-x4300h

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Think that is about as low as it gets for A2000 series. If you can find online with free shipping without sales tax, that helps.

Personally for me, as of today, assuming the A2070 will get me the same sound as the CX-A5100, I would probably get the A2070 for $1100.

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-AVENTAGE-Component-Receiver-RX-A2070BL/dp/B06ZXXJFMJ/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=