Dayton Audio Best Budget Speakers Out There???

[gene]

With the recently released MK402 bookshelf speaker ($69/pair),Dayton Audio answers the challenge for a small bookshelf speaker that has significant bass extension and is also very inexpensive. The MK402, along with its corresponding MK442 center speaker ($50/ea),manages this engineering feat, but what else can these little over-achievers do?

Should you use a pair of MK402s or the MK442 center channel vertically oriented as a stereo pair? Are these the best speakers out there for the money? The answers to these questions surprised us, but you will have read our review of these budget wonders to find out.

Read: Dayton Audio MK402 & MK442 Speaker Review

 

[Paul Lane]

Ordered it's brother from Parts Express. The C452 with a folded paper tweeter.. It was $31..

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

some more info on mk402 here, including dsp file to somewhat fix the response to be more neutral
http://noaudiophile.com/Dayton_MK402/

 

[Dennis Murphy]

some more info on mk402 here, including dsp file to somewhat fix the response to be more neutral
http://noaudiophile.com/Dayton_MK402/

I was able to flatten the response out to +/- 1.5 dB, and I agree the bass is pretty amazing. I had hoped to offer the modded version as a surround or desk top, but this thing is just too insensitive. With a decent crossover, 82.5 dB is the most you can hope for. Of course, that's what happens when you try to get deep bass out of a very small woofer. Edit--the sensitivity is actually lower than that. Gene measured 79.5 dB. I wasn't adjusting for the impedance of around 5 ohms.

 

[shadyJ]

Ordered it's brother from Parts Express. The C452 with a folded paper tweeter.. It was $31..

There is a review of the C452-AIR on the way, btw, with full measurement sets. The folded diaphragm is made out of Kapton, not paper.

some more info on mk402 here, including dsp file to somewhat fix the response to be more neutral
http://noaudiophile.com/Dayton_MK402/

Here is another great review of the MK402 that likewise explores its behavior in depth. Anyway, as that review and my review says, you don't need really DSP correction curves to greatly improve the sound of these speakers; the way the response is shaped, a simple tone control is just about perfect for taking down that treble for a very smooth response.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

There is a review of the C452-AIR on the way, btw, with full measurement sets. The folded diaphragm is made out of Kapton, not paper.

Here is another great review of the MK402 that likewise explores its behavior in depth. Anyway, as that review and my review says, you don't need really DSP correction curves to greatly improve the sound of these speakers; the way the response is shaped, a simple tone control is just about perfect for taking down that treble for a very smooth response.

That actually won't do the trick. Just tilting down the highs also deepens the cavity in the mid treble. You have to completely reshape the response to really flatten it out.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

That actually won't do the trick. Just tilting down the highs also deepens the cavity in the mid treble. You have to completely reshape the response to really flatten it out.

Hi Dennis,
We took a lot of measurements and came to the conclusion that the shelf filter worked fine. The dip you found is actually an odd response problem that shows up just off axis from the teeeter. You can see the holes in the vertical polar response James shared. If you fill in that hole with EQ it will be a peak on axis or more off the vertical axis.

I think those holes in the response are a mix of the simple shallow slopes and distance between the tweeter and midbass. As such I think the only true fix is a different crossover with steeper slopes, and ideally moving the tweeter closer.

However, this is all academic, because when I measured in in room with the mic at the listening position, that hole rarely seemed to show up and the tilt made it subjectively pleasing to listen to. While the EQ approach i used was better, I wanted to offer a solution that most buyers could use. I think this accomplishes that. I think James felt the same way.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

There is a review of the C452-AIR on the way, btw, with full measurement sets. The folded diaphragm is made out of Kapton, not paper.

Here is another great review of the MK402 that likewise explores its behavior in depth. Anyway, as that review and my review says, you don't need really DSP correction curves to greatly improve the sound of these speakers; the way the response is shaped, a simple tone control is just about perfect for taking down that treble for a very smooth response.

Darn tootin’ that’s another great review.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Hi Dennis,
We took a lot of measurements and came to the conclusion that the shelf filter worked fine. The dip you found is actually an odd response problem that shows up just off axis from the teeeter. You can see the holes in the vertical polar response James shared. If you fill in that hole with EQ it will be a peak on axis or more off the vertical axis.

I think those holes in the response are a mix of the simple shallow slopes and distance between the tweeter and midbass. As such I think the only true fix is a different crossover with steeper slopes, and ideally moving the tweeter closer.

However, this is all academic, because when I measured in in room with the mic at the listening position, that hole rarely seemed to show up and the tilt made it subjectively pleasing to listen to. While the EQ approach i used was better, I wanted to offer a solution that most buyers could use. I think this accomplishes that. I think James felt the same way.

Thanks for the reply. My measurements show the dip both on axis and off axis vertically and horizontally. and it's hard to see how a simple tone control could even things out. I tried everything I could think of in the way of additions to the existing crossover, but the cure was worse than the disease. Response dips like that can sound pleasant on certain music, but not on complex music where detail gets lost.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Thanks for the reply. My measurements show the dip both on axis and off axis vertically and horizontally. and it's hard to see how a simple tone control could even things out. I tried everything I could think of in the way of additions to the existing crossover, but the cure was worse than the disease. Response dips like that can sound pleasant on certain music, but not on complex music where detail gets lost.

Well like you, I backed away from a crossover redesign because of the sensitivity. The EQ I ultimately used had a fuller tonal balance with greater emphasis in the midbass. It would have required dropping another 3-4db if sensitivity overall to tilt the response that way passively. It seemed like a 76db at 1 watt speaker was not palatable to most.

Here are my pre and post eq results. I shared these at my Masterclass at AXPONA as well. I did fill in that dip in these.



I tried to keep the eq relatively simple. You can get a sense of it in the upper left. Ultimately a new crossover is a better solution.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Well like you, I backed away from a crossover redesign because of the sensitivity. The EQ I ultimately used had a fuller tonal balance with greater emphasis in the midbass. It would have required dropping another 3-4db if sensitivity overall to tilt the response that way passively. It seemed like a 76db at 1 watt speaker was not palatable to most.

Here are my pre and post eq results. I shared these at my Masterclass at AXPONA as well. I did fill in that dip in these.
View attachment 24335

View attachment 24334
I tried to keep the eq relatively simple. You can get a sense of it in the upper left. Ultimately a new crossover is a better solution.

That's impressive software. Thanks for sharing. My revised passive crossover has about the same sensitivity as the stock unit. Maybe I'll reconsider. But all those extra components do add a lot of $$$$. This speaker is an odd duck. Lots of potential, but not easy to fix in a commercially viable manner.

 

[shadyJ]

That's impressive software. Thanks for sharing. My revised passive crossover has about the same sensitivity as the stock unit. Maybe I'll reconsider. But all those extra components do add a lot of $$$$. This speaker is an odd duck. Lots of potential, but not easy to fix in a commercially viable manner.

If you are looking for a cheap speaker to tinker with, consider the MK442. When stood vertically, it is a superior performer to the MK402, not bad out of the box. It may not need as much alteration to achieve the kind of performance you are after.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

If you are looking for a cheap speaker to tinker with, consider the MK442. When stood vertically, it is a superior performer to the MK402, not bad out of the box. It may not need as much alteration to achieve the kind of performance you are after.

If you are looking for a cheap speaker to tinker with, consider the MK442. When stood vertically, it is a superior performer to the MK402, not bad out of the box. It may not need as much alteration to achieve the kind of performance you are after.

I was trying to offer the smallest speaker possible to increase its versatility. But the 402 would be much more attractive had they been able to wire the woofers in parallel instead of in series and still maintain a sufficiently high impedance. That wasn't possible since they were starting with 4 ohm woofers. Anyhow, it's nice to know that there are speakers out there less sensitive than my offerings.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Well like you, I backed away from a crossover redesign because of the sensitivity. The EQ I ultimately used had a fuller tonal balance with greater emphasis in the midbass. It would have required dropping another 3-4db if sensitivity overall to tilt the response that way passively. It seemed like a 76db at 1 watt speaker was not palatable to most.

Here are my pre and post eq results. I shared these at my Masterclass at AXPONA as well. I did fill in that dip in these.
View attachment 24335

View attachment 24334
I tried to keep the eq relatively simple. You can get a sense of it in the upper left. Ultimately a new crossover is a better solution.

btw: What software is it??

 

[Matthew J Poes]

btw: What software is it??

vituixCAD

https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/Software.html

It’s for crossover design and can do active or passive. Since it can do active, you can model eq. When trying to eq a speaker, using its free space polar measurements is really a lot better. As you can see, I made a bunch of non-intuitive changes to get he best sound. First is that I went with 20 degrees as the preferred listening axis. Second is that I eqed the response so it’s average response across most of its polar response was flat, not so it’s 0 axis was flat.

It’s great software. I used it to model my alternative crossover for the 402 as well. Very flexible in what you can implement. It also has an automatic optimizer that works well.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Well like you, I backed away from a crossover redesign because of the sensitivity. The EQ I ultimately used had a fuller tonal balance with greater emphasis in the midbass. It would have required dropping another 3-4db if sensitivity overall to tilt the response that way passively. It seemed like a 76db at 1 watt speaker was not palatable to most.

Here are my pre and post eq results. I shared these at my Masterclass at AXPONA as well. I did fill in that dip in these.
View attachment 24335

View attachment 24334
I tried to keep the eq relatively simple. You can get a sense of it in the upper left. Ultimately a new crossover is a better solution.

Well, I went back to my original redo and tried tilting down the top end to get a better balance with the bass, and that did the trick. I didn't have to lower the sensitivity in the midrange, and the overall sound is very neutral and clean. I was impressed enough to reconsider offering it in my lineup. It's obviously not going to be a candidate for 5-watt SET amps or large rooms, but it's certainly accurate within its SPL and bass limitations.

 

[jh112]

Well, I went back to my original redo and tried tilting down the top end to get a better balance with the bass, and that did the trick. I didn't have to lower the sensitivity in the midrange, and the overall sound is very neutral and clean. I was impressed enough to reconsider offering it in my lineup. It's obviously not going to be a candidate for 5-watt SET amps or large rooms, but it's certainly accurate within its SPL and bass limitations.

Would this be more for a desktop speaker application or speakers in a small room? How would you compare it to AAM?

 

[afterlife2]

Those MK442 are very interesting and great value. Thank you for the review very well detailed. Too bad I'm not in for new speakers at the moment.
Didn't know the 402's are also in BT:

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Would this be more for a desktop speaker application or speakers in a small room? How would you compare it to AAM?

Desk top would be the obvious application, but they would make excellent surrounds if there is some clearance to the rear for the port. They actually measure smoother than the AA monitors, due mostly to the lack of cabinet diffraction peaks and dips. The main audible difference is the extra octave of bass you get out of the AA monitors. I haven't tried the 402's with a sub, but the might make a killer budget system matched with one of the cheap Dayton subs.

 

[panteragstk]

Desk top would be the obvious application, but they would make excellent surrounds if there is some clearance to the rear for the port. They actually measure smoother than the AA monitors, due mostly to the lack of cabinet diffraction peaks and dips. The main audible difference is the extra octave of bass you get out of the AA monitors. I haven't tried the 402's with a sub, but the might make a killer budget system matched with one of the cheap Dayton subs.

I'd probably be in the market for these since my current desktop JBL speakers have such a high cutoff in FR. They only go down to 150hz in the specs. They do sound nice, but are so tiny that they don't have any hope of reproducing bass.

I wonder if my Kanto amp would work with the low sensitivity of the 402?