KEF Q Series or ELAC Debut 2.0 ???

[EvolDevol]

Good day everyone.

I'm currently in the market for a new home theater system.

What I recently acquired is a LG OLED E7P, and a Denon AVRX3400H.

What I need are speakers. Through research and some auditiining, I've narrowed it down to these two series.

My first choice where Martin Logan Motion 40's or the KEF R series, but unfortunately they're just a tad out of my budget.

What I'd like is personal feedback. Making a decision upon thousands of dollars in audio equipment isn't that easy, especially with all the options.

I'd appreciate any opinions, info, input, or suggestions.

I thank you all in advance.

Have a great day!

Regards

Jason

 

[KEW]

Those are two speakers that I would expect to have fairly different sound, since the KEF is concentric driver and the Debut is not.
Where would you buy them?
And which specific speakers are you getting for either option?

Since these should sound distinctively different (but I suspect both are decent), I would suggest you buy a pair of surrounds (I'm assuming these are bookshelf speakers and not some special di-pole speaker... that is part of why I want to know which specific speakers) from each company. Spend a week or two listening to both and see which you prefer. Return the ones you don't like and get the matching fronts and center for the ones you do!

Also, do you have (are you getting) a subwoofer?

 

[KEW]

Also, if you are more a music guy than home theater, you might consider something like the KEF R or the ML Motion for your L&R (to be used with music), and going with a lesser speaker for your surrounds.

For example, get R100 for your L&R speakers, a Q100 for your center channel (you can buy a single Q100 from Accessories4Less for at the link below), and use Pioneer BS-22 (currently on sale at $70/pr) or Sony Core Series (currently $120/pr) for you surrounds.

If you are questioning the wisdom of using lessor speakers for your surrounds, just watch one of your favorite movies with the front 3 disconnected (unplug from the avr so you don't accidentally short the leads) and see how much content the surrounds carry. It is usually just not so critical as what comes from the front!

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/kefq100blaea/kef-q100-5.25-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-black-one-single-speaker/1.html

 

[EvolDevol]

Those are two speakers that I would expect to have fairly different sound, since the KEF is concentric driver and the Debut is not.
Where would you buy them?
And which specific speakers are you getting for either option?

Since these should sound distinctively different (but I suspect both are decent), I would suggest you buy a pair of surrounds (I'm assuming these are bookshelf speakers and not some special di-pole speaker... that is part of why I want to know which specific speakers) from each company. Spend a week or two listening to both and see which you prefer. Return the ones you don't like and get the matching fronts and center for the ones you do!

Also, do you have (are you getting) a subwoofer?

Thanks for the response. I want 6.5" drivers across the front. I do like music, but I also want a 5.1.2 Atmos system.

The Martin's were my first choice, I preferred them over the KEF R's. I heard the KEF R's, but not the Q750's or the QC650(both 6.5"drivers).

The Martin's and KEF R's are just out of budget reach. I have heard the original Debut F6's and the UniFi's, I liked the F6's a little better, part of that is because of the bigger driver and another part is the value.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[KenM10759]

FYI, the KEF R series is now on sale at dealers in the US, if that's where you are. I don't know why the sale hasn't made it to KEF Direct yet, but my dealer says the sale price of R700 is $2800 a pair, a discount of about 30% off the original list of $3500 a pair. The R500 is now $1900 a pair, down from the $2600 list. There are similar discounts on all others including the R400b subwoofer (which I'd never buy), excepting the R50 Atmos-enabled speakers.

 

[EvolDevol]

FYI, the KEF R series is now on sale at dealers in the US, if that's where you are. I don't know why the sale hasn't made it to KEF Direct yet, but my dealer says the sale price of R700 is $2800 a pair, a discount of about 30% off the original list of $3500 a pair. The R500 is now $1900 a pair, down from the $2600 list. There are similar discounts on all others including the R400b subwoofer (which I'd never buy), excepting the R50 Atmos-enabled speakers.

Thank you for the info, it's still just a little out of range. I didn't want to spent $1k on a floor stander... I am in the US and will check into it though.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[KEW]

What ratio of music to home theater do you expect to use this system for?
For example 70%music/30%HT.

Do you plan to use a subwoofer?

 

[EvolDevol]

What ratio of music to home theater do you expect to use this system for?
For example 70%music/30%HT.

Do you plan to use a subwoofer?

Probably 60/40 - HT/Music. I am going to use a subwoofer, maybe even 2 further down the road. I have a shitty Yamaha 8" powered one now that's about 15 yrs old. I was going to get either an SVS or RSL Speedwoofer.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[KEW]

IMHO, the SQ (sound quality) of your speakers is not as critical for HT as it is for music.
However, the point I would like to make is you are better served from a SQ perspective to buy a higher quality bookshelf (like the R100 or R300) than a lower quality floorstander (Q500 or Q700) for your budget.
This is especially true if you will use a subwoofer (which will cover any deeper bass provided by the foorstander).
One exception is if you have a very large room and like to crank the dog snot out of it. However a bookshelf speaker like the KEF R series are not too wimpy on that count.
If you just want towers because you like the look/image or they just make you feel good about your system; that is fine, just understand that it is not the best SQ option.

Either way, I would advise you to cut cost on (or skip entirely) the surrounds and get the best mains you can afford. The speakers are the most important item you put in your system and the mains are the most important speakers. I think you'd do better to buy a pair of R500's for $1900 and have an amazingly high quality 2.1 (or 2.2) HT than to buy 5 ea. of Debut or Q series. You can fill in the rest of the speakers later (but I would not spend R series dollars on them unless you are just flush with cash)!

If course, I used KEF as an example, but get whatever are the best pair of speakers to your ear.

Ok! I've had my say and will get off of the soapbox.

Hope this helps and, most importantly, it is ultimately about enjoying the art/emotion of the sound (music/HT)!

 

[KenM10759]

You have a high-enough percentage of music there that I agree completely with KEW.

Question from me would be how nice is your room, and how important are looks of the speakers to you? The KEF R series is what I refer to as "dual mode" speakers in that they are equally adept at music or home theater, perhaps a bit more to music. The cabinets in piano black or walnut are conservative looking with the magnetic grills on, but transform to "game on" mode with the grills off because of the brushed aluminum trim rings on the black woofers and silver color Uni-Q driver.

 

[EvolDevol]

IMHO, the SQ (sound quality) of your speakers is not as critical for HT as it is for music.
However, the point I would like to make is you are better served from a SQ perspective to buy a higher quality bookshelf (like the R100 or R300) than a lower quality floorstander (Q500 or Q700) for your budget.
This is especially true if you will use a subwoofer (which will cover any deeper bass provided by the foorstander).
One exception is if you have a very large room and like to crank the dog snot out of it. However a bookshelf speaker like the KEF R series are not too wimpy on that count.
If you just want towers because you like the look/image or they just make you feel good about your system; that is fine, just understand that it is not the best SQ option.

Either way, I would advise you to cut cost on (or skip entirely) the surrounds and get the best mains you can afford. The speakers are the most important item you put in your system and the mains are the most important speakers. I think you'd do better to buy a pair of R500's for $1900 and have an amazingly high quality 2.1 (or 2.2) HT than to buy 5 ea. of Debut or Q series. You can fill in the rest of the speakers later (but I would not spend R series dollars on them unless you are just flush with cash)!

If course, I used KEF as an example, but get whatever are the best pair of speakers to your ear.

Ok! I've had my say and will get off of the soapbox.

Hope this helps and, most importantly, it is ultimately about enjoying the art/emotion of the sound (music/HT)!

Thank you for the suggestion.

The R's are really out of reach. Its really the $1k for the Atmos toppers that does it. I priced out Refurbs even, and with the 6series Center Channel and Atmos Toppers, it puts everything out of reach.

I've also been told my receiver isn't powerful enough to run the R's, more money I'd need to spend in an extra stereo Amp/DAC.

I do think SQ is important, even for home theater. I prefer clarity over everything, not extreme loudness or DB's.

I also want the front to match aesthetically, not just sonically. I could drop the driver size to 5-1/4 or 5-1/2 if its better suited for my amp and overall SQ. If I could save there I could get a better sub to handle the lows the 5" drivers can't handle.

Musically I'm a midrange guy. I listen to a lot of aggressive music, punk rock, and classic rock. I don't need huge bass. One of the best setups in a car was 4 - 8" Cadence subs. Tight, crunchy, lots of punch, but not super loose and boomy.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[EvolDevol]

You have a high-enough percentage of music there that I agree completely with KEW.

Question from me would be how nice is your room, and how important are looks of the speakers to you? The KEF R series is what I refer to as "dual mode" speakers in that they are equally adept at music or home theater, perhaps a bit more to music. The cabinets in piano black or walnut are conservative looking with the magnetic grills on, but transform to "game on" mode with the grills off because of the brushed aluminum trim rings on the black woofers and silver color Uni-Q driver.

I live in a loft. 16' ceilings. Steel beams, Exposed ductwork, some ceiling fans I installed, with a painted tongue and groove deck. The floor is polished concrete.The main area is roughly 35' x 35'.

I have some artwork from somewhat famous Pittsburgh artists, lots of ornamental iron work.

Aesthetics are important. I actually prefer the flat black look of the KEF Q's as opposed to the shinier R's.

I really like the look of the new Jamo Studio Series, but I hear their crossovers are junk, and they don't sound good at all. But I don't know. No one has heard them. Crutchfield reps told me they sound great, but who knows. I know I don't. I can't even find a sound review on them.

I want the front to match aesthetically and sonically. The satellites and sub don't really matter, but I'll probably just get another pair of Atmos speakers and use them as rear satellites anyways.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[KenM10759]

From what you describe the Q750 pair with Q650 center would be ideal. I know from hearing them that the new Q series is really a lot closer to the R series in a lot of ways than the previous Q series. I'd say they're around 80 to 90 percent there.

 

[EvolDevol]

Thank you for the input. I've found a pair of factory refurbed Q750's and the Q650c for $1700. I think I'm going to pull the trigger...

I also found an SVS Ultra bookshelf system with matching center channel for $1400.

Decisions. Decisions.

Basically they wash out with the stands for the bookshelves. I do like the SVS Elevation speakers though. And the 3 way center channel. I heard the Prime, not the Ultra, and it was pretty good. I was definitely going with an SVS sub too.

Life. Is. Complicated.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[KenM10759]

If there's one advantage to floorstanding speakers (beyond not having to buy or make stands), it's the increased bass often is enough for much of the music I like to be listened to in "analog bypass" a.k.a. "pure direct" mode which means no subwoofer and full range signal to the speakers.

 

[EvolDevol]

If there's one advantage to floorstanding speakers (beyond not having to buy or make stands), it's the increased bass often is enough for much of the music I like to be listened to in "analog bypass" a.k.a. "pure direct" mode which means no subwoofer and full range signal to the speakers.

I've always liked 3 way speakers better than 2 way monitors. That's why towers are more appealing to me. I'm no audio engineer, but basically my ears hear a 2.5 Concentric driver as 3 way. 2 way monitors still sound 2 way. Not as full.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[EvolDevol]

If there's one advantage to floorstanding speakers (beyond not having to buy or make stands), it's the increased bass often is enough for much of the music I like to be listened to in "analog bypass" a.k.a. "pure direct" mode which means no subwoofer and full range signal to the speakers.

Thanks again Ken. You've been a great deal of help. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on these KEF's...

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[EvolDevol]

I did it. KEF Q750's, and a Q650c.

We'll see how they sound with this Denon. I can add two more amps to it, so any good inexpensive stereo amp recommendations for good music listening are welcome.

Thanks again everyone.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

 

[KenM10759]

Nice! Those are incredible for the price, you'll see.

As for a 2-channel amp, have you set a budget?

 

[KEW]

I did it. KEF Q750's, and a Q650c.

We'll see how they sound with this Denon. I can add two more amps to it, so any good inexpensive stereo amp recommendations for good music listening are welcome.

Thanks again everyone.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk

Pro Audio offers the best value, but if you want a more traditional Home Audio amp, check out the Outlaw 5000 for $600.
While it is a 5 channel amp, it does 170WPC into 2 channels at 8 Ohms and 235WPC into 2 channels @ 4 Ohms. Those are competitive numbers for a $600 stereo amp, plus you have the versatility to use it as a 3 or 5 channel amp should the future need arise.
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements