KEF Q Series or ELAC Debut 2.0 ???

[EvolDevol]

Nice! Those are incredible for the price, you'll see.

As for a 2-channel amp, have you set a budget?

I'd like the best bang for the buck. I don't really wanna get over $500... I still need to get the Q50A's, they're $500, I was actually going to get 2 pairs and use the one as rear satellites. I also need a sub, that's another 5-600... that basically puts me at $2200-$2300, in my $2500 budget... I could probably hold off the sub and satellites for a little while... but I didn't really wanna go over the $2500 limit...

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[EvolDevol]

Pro Audio offers the best value, but if you want a more traditional Home Audio amp, check out the Outlaw 5000 for $600.
While it is a 5 channel amp, it does 170WPC into 2 channels at 8 Ohms and 235WPC into 2 channels @ 4 Ohms. Those are competitive numbers for a $600 stereo amp, plus you have the versatility to use it as a 3 or 5 channel amp should the future need arise.
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements

Thank you.

The Denon AVRX 3400H was only $600 on sale.

Ill check into Outlaw and ProAudio. The multiple channels does sound nice... I was initially interested in just a good 2 channel stereo amp for music, but I have to check the Outlaw out.

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[KenM10759]

I'd like the best bang for the buck. I don't really wanna get over $500... I still need to get the Q50A's, they're $500, I was actually going to get 2 pairs and use the one as rear satellites. I also need a sub, that's another 5-600... that basically puts me at $2200-$2300, in my $2500 budget... I could probably hold off the sub and satellites for a little while... but I didn't really wanna go over the $2500 limit...

For about the same money the Q150 is a better speaker for surround or rear because it's got a bigger cabinet and does have more bass. The caveat is that it's rear ported, so if you're on a wall and the port is plugged, it would then have a similar output to the Q50a.

 

[EvolDevol]

Nice! Those are incredible for the price, you'll see.

As for a 2-channel amp, have you set a budget?

Ken, what gauge/type of wire/cable do you use with your R's?

Monoprice has a good deal on a 16g, 10' set with bananaplugs on them already.



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[EvolDevol]

For about the same money the Q150 is a better speaker for surround or rear because it's got a bigger cabinet and does have more bass. The caveat is that it's rear ported, so if you're on a wall and the port is plugged, it would then have a similar output to the Q50a.

Thanks, it would be mounted on a wall..I was worried about the rear port on the Q150, I also figured the Q50's mounted flush, but firing down at 30° , would be better for SFX...

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[EvolDevol]

The center channel should be here in 3-4 hours. The towers are set for Tuesday.

Man I'm pumped. Its been a long time coming.

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[PENG]

You room is quite big, so unless you sit within 10-12 feet from the center speaker and don't listen any louder than reference level (preferably a few dB lower), you are going to need a 3 channel amp for HT and in that case that Outlaw amp KEW suggested seems to be the best bang for the buck.

 

[EvolDevol]

You room is quite big, so unless you sit within 10-12 feet from the center speaker and don't listen any louder than reference level (preferably a few dB lower), you are going to need a 3 channel amp for HT and in that case that Outlaw amp KEW suggested seems to be the best bang for the buck.

The Denon AVRX 3400H I have won't be efficient enough even for HT?

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[KenM10759]

The Denon AVRX 3400H I have won't be efficient enough even for HT?

As has been written...all depends upon how loud you like it and how far from the speakers you sit. Wait until you get the speakers, set everything up and run Audyssey calibration. You'll know then because if it sets everything on the high end, you're either too far away or don't have enough power. Or both.

If you're a true movie nut who want maximum levels, hard-hitting bass, rumbling floors & seats, then triple your budget and go with Powersound Audio or JBL on speakers and huge power amps for a separate AV processor. I sense that's not what you're looking for.

 

[PENG]

The Denon AVRX 3400H I have won't be efficient enough even for HT?

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You can enter the appropriate numbers into the calculator linked below to get an idea.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[EvolDevol]

Thank you Peng. According to this, I should be doing just fine.

We will see. I still want an external stereo amp for the clearest music listening possible, but I think I'm good for now, until I build up my cookie jar audio funds again in the near future.

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[KenM10759]

When do you expect to have speakers in and setup for initial testing? This should be very interesting. I have a feeling you may not feel a need for amps right away. Of course the speakers will need some break-in, a good 10 to 20 minutes should do it.

 

[EvolDevol]

When do you expect to have speakers in and setup for initial testing? This should be very interesting. I have a feeling you may not feel a need for amps right away. Of course the speakers will need some break-in, a good 10 to 20 minutes should do it.

10-20 minutes, huh?

I'm thinking Wednesday eve.

I just ordered the cables pictured, they're arriving Wednesday.

I have an HDMI cable that should work, but just in case I ordered another one of those.

The Q750's come in on Tuesday.

Let me say that the KEF Q650C, doesn't look like a refurb. It is huge, but it is sexy. I haven't heard it yet, because I wasn't going to just stick in some low budget, high gauge, speaker wire. I don't even know if it works, but it does come with their 5 yr warranty, so I'm not worried.

It looks and feels fierce. Its heavy. Like a bag of concrete heavy. Lift with your legs.

It came in the original box, I was worried about it not being double boxed, but the foam was high density, and everything was fine. I did shake it to see if I heard anything, nothing. I wrapped a couple knuckles to it, and it was the high pitched knock, not the hollow kind, so they did good there. I read the older ones had more of a hollow knock to them, resulting from a lower quality box.

Anywho, the towers come in on Tuesday, the 3' cables come in tomorrow, and the 6' cables come in on Wednesday, so Wednesday Ill have a 3 channel set up, and can start the audio calibration with the Denon.

This will be my first time ever trying this. Ill probably be on here asking all sorts of questions, from ARC, and especially when it comes to really tuning everything in.

I have a bunch of high res audio on my phone, and I also have the paid neutron player app that has all sorts or EQ functions, course, the Denon should too.

Funny thing from the late 90's early 2000's, I always wanted a Denon/Klipsch system.

I had the funds to do this, but went with Denon/KEF instead. Hopefully I made the better choice...

Sorry for rambling, but I am excited. This should be the best set up I've ever had in a living room.

Thanks again for all the input and help. Ill also thank you in advance for help in the future, I'm sure its coming...

Audioholics has been the best forum for me by far.

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[KenM10759]

I don't know where you bought refurbished KEF from, but when I've bought refurbished KEF products from Accessories4Less.com, I could NOT tell it from the new stuff I'd bought from my local dealer. In any way. All the packaging intact, any sealed plastic bags still sealed, nary a fingerprint on anything. That good!

Keep an eye on spade connectors, they can work loose somehow. I use banana plugs on both ends.

If you have a Denon, it's got Audyssey rather than Anthem's "ARC" or "ARC2". It's fine, and it's simple to use. They did a good job with the user interface.

 

[EvolDevol]

I don't know where you bought refurbished KEF from, but when I've bought refurbished KEF products from Accessories4Less.com, I could NOT tell it from the new stuff I'd bought from my local dealer. In any way. All the packaging intact, any sealed plastic bags still sealed, nary a fingerprint on anything. That good!

Keep an eye on spade connectors, they can work loose somehow. I use banana plugs on both ends.

If you have a Denon, it's got Audyssey rather than Anthem's "ARC" or "ARC2". It's fine, and it's simple to use. They did a good job with the user interface.

The ARC I was referring to was the HDMI connection, not the Audyssey calibrator.

I did get them from Accessories4less.

I called them and they never picked up nor returned my phone call. I was pretty upset. I looked them up and read a bunch of mixed reviews. A lot of negative ones. Mostly on receivers though, none on the KEF refurbs.

I went back to the KEF website, and Accessries4less is the only authorized online refurb dealer.

I sent Accessories4less an email. A guy named Mark messaged me back in about 40 mins. We messaged back and forth for awhile, he assured me that everything would be fine and that if I placed my order it would ship right away. He also said that most of their business is online so they spend more resources on the net, than they do with the phones. He said it takes days before they get through all the voicemails. Makes sense. Anyways I ordered the Center channel because it was the last one. It shipped that day. After seeing that I places the order for the towers. Again, shipped the same day.

I couldn't believe the condition of the center channel, I mean it looks brand new, and as you said, felt wrapped, then foam, then high density foam in all corners, KEF branded packaging tape and box, right from the factory. Pretty amazing.

I asked you about what type of cables to get, you never answered my question, do i hit some other forums and more people recommended the spades than the bananas. The ones I bought are soldered, so they shouldn't come loose, but we will see. I figured with the screw actually biting into them it would be a better connection.

Either way, not a lot of money spent. We'll see how they work out.

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[KEW]

The ARC I was referring to was the HDMI connection, not the Audyssey calibrator.

I did get them from Accessories4less.

I called them and they never picked up nor returned my phone call. I was pretty upset. I looked them up and read a bunch of mixed reviews. A lot of negative ones. Mostly on receivers though, none on the KEF refurbs.

I went back to the KEF website, and Accessries4less is the only authorized online refurb dealer.

I sent Accessories4less an email. A guy named Mark messaged me back in about 40 mins. We messaged back and forth for awhile, he assured me that everything would be fine and that if I placed my order it would ship right away. He also said that most of their business is online so they spend more resources on the net, than they do with the phones. He said it takes days before they get through all the voicemails. Makes sense. Anyways I ordered the Center channel because it was the last one. It shipped that day. After seeing that I places the order for the towers. Again, shipped the same day.

I couldn't believe the condition of the center channel, I mean it looks brand new, and as you said, felt wrapped, then foam, then high density foam in all corners, KEF branded packaging tape and box, right from the factory. Pretty amazing.

I asked you about what type of cables to get, you never answered my question, do i hit some other forums and more people recommended the spades than the bananas. The ones I bought are soldered, so they shouldn't come loose, but we will see. I figured with the screw actually biting into them it would be a better connection.

Either way, not a lot of money spent. We'll see how they work out.

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An important aspect of A4L's business is the units are reconditioned by the manufacturer! So, there is no reason to be surprised that the item shows up in sealed cartons from the manufacturer.

I always wonder about the low ratings on the internet. My experiences with them have been consistently stellar! The few instances I have heard of here where the unit was DOA, there was no complaint about how A4L dealt with the issue. They seem very fair, but they will not let you return an item just because you changed your mind or didn't like it without you paying return shipping and potentially a restocking fee - That is fair, but not as liberal as Amazon's return policy.
If DOA - of course you pay nothing!

 

[PENG]

Thank you Peng. According to this, I should be doing just fine.

We will see. I still want an external stereo amp for the clearest music listening possible, but I think I'm good for now, until I build up my cookie jar audio funds again in the near future.

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I don't think you entered the right numbers. From the partial results I could see (the image's too big)It looks like your sitting distance is 9 ft. Based on the specified sensitivity of 88 dB/2.83V/1m and assuming average impedance is 4 ohm (don't believe in their so called nominal impedance), the sensitivity would be effectively 85 dB/1W/1m. According to the calculator you should get almost 100 to 103 dB with one speaker placed near the wall, that's about 2 to 5 dB short of the THX standard. THX standard spl is too loud for a lot of people, so you may be fine.

There is a review on the AVR-X3400H with some bench test data, linked below in case you have not read it.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x3400h-av-receiver-review

 

[EvolDevol]

An important aspect of A4L's business is the units are reconditioned by the manufacturer! So, there is no reason to be surprised that the item shows up in sealed cartons from the manufacturer.

I always wonder about the low ratings on the internet. My experiences with them have been consistently stellar! The few instances I have heard of here where the unit was DOA, there was no complaint about how A4L dealt with the issue. They seem very fair, but they will not let you return an item just because you changed your mind or didn't like it without you paying return shipping and potentially a restocking fee - That is fair, but not as liberal as Amazon's return policy.
If DOA - of course you pay nothing!

So I guess that's dependant on if the item listed says Free Shipping on the items listed picture on their site. From what I was told, if it says free shipping on the picture, its free shipping on returns. If it doesn't say free shipping, you have to pay the return shipping costs.

You're right about the manufacturer recertified products. They do come directly from the manufacturer to Accessories4less. Accessories4less doesn't open the boxes up and do anything before they resell them.

So far everything is great with them. I will be purchasing more from them in the future.

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[EvolDevol]

I don't think you entered the right numbers. From the partial results I could see (the image's too big)It looks like your sitting distance is 9 ft. Based on the specified sensitivity of 88 dB/2.83V/1m and assuming average impedance is 4 ohm (don't believe in their so called nominal impedance), the sensitivity would be effectively 85 dB/1W/1m. According to the calculator you should get almost 100 to 103 dB with one speaker placed near the wall, that's about 2 to 5 dB short of the THX standard. THX standard spl is too loud for a lot of people, so you may be fine.

There is a review on the AVR-X3400H with some bench test data, linked below in case you have not read it.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x3400h-av-receiver-review

You may be right. I put in the total power of the amp. Not per channel. Let me reconfigure and I'll post it back on a reply.

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[EvolDevol]

I don't think you entered the right numbers. From the partial results I could see (the image's too big)It looks like your sitting distance is 9 ft. Based on the specified sensitivity of 88 dB/2.83V/1m and assuming average impedance is 4 ohm (don't believe in their so called nominal impedance), the sensitivity would be effectively 85 dB/1W/1m. According to the calculator you should get almost 100 to 103 dB with one speaker placed near the wall, that's about 2 to 5 dB short of the THX standard. THX standard spl is too loud for a lot of people, so you may be fine.

There is a review on the AVR-X3400H with some bench test data, linked below in case you have not read it.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x3400h-av-receiver-review

The sitting distance is 9' but the room is obviously larger than that. Should I figure it to the back wall instead?

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