The NRA owns Trump as well.

[Bailey69]

Giving the teachers guns just escalates the whole mess to another level. Now you have both disgruntled students and now teachers the ability to kill one another. Politics and money aside for a moment, does this even make sense?

I have to say, these students are not really disgruntled students. They are mentally Ill students. I don't agree that the public should have access to automatic weapons. But its not the guns fault, its the health care and education systems fault.

I mean the U.S has a significant portion of its population that think the earth is flat, the international space station and hubble images are fake! A massive amount of people who don't understand evolution and think the earth is 6000 years old! Who earnestly believe an umnipotient being created everything and needed to rest on the 7th day! Lol The USA like many countries populations is more then willing for the most part to believe without evidence. This is the core of the problem. A population willing to believe without evidence is allready disarmed! What is happening in your country is planned. Without an educated population capable of critical thinking your fully at the mercy of your owners!

The USA has much bigger problems then gun laws!

 

[gene]

He hardly originated the idea. However, if Cruz had someone pointing a gun in his face, I doubt he would have kept going. I think that any of these shootings would have been far less deadly if a few rounds had been fired at the shooter- even if they missed, it would have bought time for people to get away. It's seen in every Military or Western movie- someone always yells "Cover me!" before running to get a better vantage point or to get away.

People who do this have little to no resistance, so they keep going until the Police show up and here in MKE, where shootings happen far too often, the saying "When seconds count, the Police are only minutes away" holds a lot of truth.

At some point, we need to hold parents, schools and most of all, GOVERNMENT LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN ALERTED TO SOMEONE'S ONLINE COMMENTS responsible for these events. The husband where Cruz was staying said he thought he had the only key to the gun safe he says he insisted on when he found out that Cruz had seven guns. I can't think of the last lockable item that only had one key. They ALWAYS come with a spare!

The school has video of Cruz fighting with his ex-girlfriends' new boyfriend. This seems to be similar to the ever-popular "If I can't have her, NOBODY can!", taken to an extreme. I read a comment that one victim had been hit by nine round- he must have really hated her- maybe she took the ex's side. Kids at the school said they expected him to do something like this- why did this not make it to the administrators and police?

Adding more guns is NOT the answer. Vegas is an open carry state yet that didn't stop the recent massacre.

I agree the police, school and FBI didn't follow through like they should have. After 9/11 we setup Homeland Security to establish terrorist protocols, oversight, etc. Why aren't we doing the same for domestic terroristm? Why aren't any of our politicians labelling it as such, because that is EXACTLY what this is! Ah because gun sales are good and the NRA is profitable as always. Can't regulate lethal weapons bc that would hinder gun sales, and the bottom line.

You don't hear about mass shootings at private schools b/c they usually lock the schools down and only allow visitors to be buzzed in after being vetted. We should do similar in public schools as well. When I was in high school, we had a cop on site all the time. Why don't we do that anymore? Perhaps we can move some of the cops away from speed patrol and writing tickets to actually protecting the public, especially our children. Ah, but there's no money in that. The police force thrive off giving speeding tickets and minor infractions.

So instead of more thorough background checks, banning deadly weapons, tightening up school security, putting qualified police on patrol of our schools, we are..... deputizing teachers to do it for free. I mean they get paid so much as it is now and they have such little pressure in public schools from the kids whose parents are lawsuit happy. Why not? Don't forget, the teachers are saving a ton with the new Trump tax plan, so much so that they can no longer write off the supplies that they have to buy themselves! They can easily afford to buy guns, ammo, and get the necessary training to protect our kids all while trying to teach them. Great solution. NOT!

 

[gene]

I have to say, these students are not really disgruntled students. They are mentally Ill students. I don't agree that the public should have access to automatic weapons. But its not the guns fault, its the health care and education systems fault.

I mean the U.S has a significant portion of its population that think the earth is flat, the international space station and hubble images are fake! A massive amount of people who don't understand evolution and think the earth is 6000 years old! Who earnestly believe an umnipotient being created everything and needed to rest on the 7th day! Lol The USA like many countries populations is more then willing for the most part to believe without evidence. This is the core of the problem. A population willing to believe without evidence is allready disarmed! What is happening in your country is planned. Without an educated population capable of critical thinking your fully at the mercy of your owners!

The USA has much bigger problems then gun laws!

Other countries have mentally ill students and no school mass shootings.

 

[KEW]

Just one thing I have not heard mentioned in this thread:
I like the idea of someone walking around in a populated area with a fire arm being the kind of thing people can report to the police. Someone may or may not have a permit to carry, but as it stands, someone with a gun in public is generally going to go unquestioned until the trigger is pulled. If I'm going to use a gun to commit mass murder, I am not at much risk of being stopped and if I see a couple of police, who might cut my spree short, I can just wave at them and come back after they leave.

I don't understand the need to allow such liberal gun rights that we accept strangers walking around with weapons designed to kill people.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

http://www.thefirearms.guide/blog/educational/assault-rifle

 

[shadyJ]

Just a couple of things I have not heard mentioned in this thread:
1) Assault rifles (and maybe others, I'm no gun expert) can penetrate body armor. I'm not sure why the public needs weapons that powerful. I know the conspiracy guys want guns that penetrate body armor, but I think the police or national guard should have some advantage.
2) I like the idea of someone walking around in a populated area with a fire arm being the kind of thing people can report to the police. Someone may or may not have a permit to carry, but as it stands, someone with a gun in public is generally going to go unquestioned until the trigger is pulled. If I'm going to use a gun to commit mass murder, I am not at much risk of being stopped and if I see a couple of police, who might cut my spree short, I can just wave at them and come back after they leave.

I don't understand the need to allow such liberal gun rights that we disadvantage law enforcement/national guard, etc.

Most body armor types do not stop rifle bullets. Stuff like kevlar and spectra can only really stop small rounds like ammunition that is used in typical handguns. Rifles, especially hunting rifle rounds, will go right through. You would need armor with ceramic plates in them to stop rifle rounds, stuff that soldiers wear. Standard 5.56mm that AR-15s use will go through typical police vests with no problem.

 

[shadyJ]

http://www.thefirearms.guide/blog/educational/assault-rifle

Here is a sensible perspective on the public availability of AR-15s.

There isn't really a universally agreed upon definition of the phrase 'assault rifle.' I don't agree that only full auto rifles can be assault rifles. And I hate to sound morbid, but if I wanted to maximize body count in a shooting spree, I would probably go with semi-auto so i would have more control over the gun. Full auto is only advantageous in situations like that crazy guy in Las Vegas.

I would say any rifle that is intended to be used on humans rather than game or target practice is an assault rifle.

 

[3db]

I wonder, has a teacher ever gone on a student shooting rampage.. Ever?

I guess we'll find out soon enough if and when teachers are allowed to arm themselves. Its just a matter of time as history does keep repeating itself.

 

[3db]

Blaiming mental health is a cop out. Why don't we ever blame mental health when it's a Muslim committing an act of terrorism? We are facing domestic terrorism in our country and the NRA is enabling it with their lobbying in Washington to resist any sensible gun laws and regulations.

BTW this is a good, informative read on many of the myths discussed herein:
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/common-myths-too-many-people-get-wrong-about-gun-control.html/?a=viewall

Isis is watching from the sidlines eating a bowl full of popcorn as the US system regarding firearms and NRA owned politicians and policy makers implodes.

 

[TheWarrior]

Blaiming mental health is a cop out. Why don't we ever blame mental health when it's a Muslim committing an act of terrorism? We are facing domestic terrorism in our country and the NRA is enabling it with their lobbying in Washington to resist any sensible gun laws and regulations.

BTW this is a good, informative read on many of the myths discussed herein:
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/common-myths-too-many-people-get-wrong-about-gun-control.html/?a=viewall

I agree with everything except your first sentence, as I only cited mental health as a contributing factor. Cruz was an orphan with a troubled childhood and was influenced by the white supremacist movement. In seeking a solution, we need to understand the cause of his motives, along with, why murderers like him and Dylann Roof survive police encounters, but unarmed African Americans do not.

Racism is a mental health issue. Period.

The high school I live by had to be shut down yesterday over a student verbalizing a threat - after someone was arrested the night before with what sounds like an actual plan.

The inaction by our NRA purchased government is inexcusable, and is resulting in a youth that seems to be thinking "well, I don't want to take a test today, might as well threaten to kill people!"

But I also pointed out that the FBI is investigating the NRA for accepting/laundering Russian money...

 

[GO-NAD!]

Trump suffers from a cognative bias known as the Dunning Kruger effect. He can't possibly come up with real solutions because the problems at hand elude him. What makes it even more dangerous is his over simplification of the problems at hand that he believes he's attained mastery of.

Now we're ending sentences with prepositions! Where in the world are we headed !? To hell in a handbasket, I tell ya!!

 

[Irvrobinson]

...the U.S has a significant portion of its population that think the earth is flat, the international space station and hubble images are fake!

Define "significant". Do you have any data to back up this assertion?

A massive amount of people who don't understand evolution and think the earth is 6000 years old! Who earnestly believe an umnipotient being created everything and needed to rest on the 7th day!

This assertion I agree with, and I'll even give you the "massive" descriptor. I know some of these people, and they're commonly referred to as creationists. I think they're uneducated and misguided, but what does this have to do with the NRA and Trump? Most of the NRA members I know are atheists.

(Just FYI, three prominent astronomers believe (or believed, since two of them are dead) that the universe has an intelligent designer. Fred Hoyle, who wrote a book about it, and was an evolution denier, Carl Sagan (read his novel Contact), and Neil Degrasse Tyson, who thinks there is a "high probability" that the universe as we know it is a simulation.)

The USA like many countries populations is more then willing for the most part to believe without evidence. This is the core of the problem. A population willing to believe without evidence is allready disarmed! What is happening in your country is planned. Without an educated population capable of critical thinking your fully at the mercy of your owners!

The USA has much bigger problems then gun laws!

And where, pray tell (no pun intended), do you hail from?

 

[Bailey69]

Isis is watching from the sidlines eating a bowl full of popcorn as the US system regarding firearms and NRA owned politicians and policy makers implodes.

Read tge Koran and you will understand. They are ALL crazy! Remember "Muslim" is not a race, its a religion. I have middle eastern friends that are not Muslim, great people!

 

[Swerd]

Yesterday, Trump suggested that classroom teachers be armed and tasked with protecting schools from armed killers. Instead of acting out of a sense of leadership and seeking a consensus, Cadet Comb-Over took delight in taking cheap shot insults. Outraged by this, teachers quickly spoke out against it. Meanwhile, we learned last night of the utter failure of the armed sheriff's deputy who already was tasked with that school's safety and protection. Apparently neither teachers nor uniformed police want this job.

Early this morning, I had a brilliant insight. Arm illegal Mexican immigrants and put them to work patrolling the halls of schools. They'll be glad to work at a much lower wage than police or teachers would demand. It's a Win/Win solution for two vexing problems.

 

[highfigh]

I agree but you are still ignoring the fact that you are now bringing in another possible lethal element, an unstable teacher with a bad day. Its an escalation, not a descalation . It still smells like shite, no matter how much perfume you douse it with. .

I never said I WANT teachers to have guns, but fear is a great motivator and the armed security guard at the school is a great example. He wanted to go home to his family, rather than confront Cruz while the shooting was going on- I get that, but I don't understand the decision to post someone who was so close to retirement at the school. NOBODY wants this to happen, but they completely failed to be prepared for any situation. The high school I attended has two cops on site at all times- stating the reason would cause some to call me bad names, but statistics do not lie. That school and others in the area have received threats by phone, e-mail and on social media, but nothing has come of them.

That said, it's unreasonable to think that all teachers would be reduced to a pool of tears at the thought of a shooter entering a school- a good number of teachers are veterans and like it, or not- they HAVE been trained to stop this kind of threat. I have four cousins (two pairs of sisters) who grew up with guns & hunting- all are, or were, teachers. I would bet that a lot of teachers are proficient with guns, but haven't made it known.

Even if the teachers don't shoot at someone, they could be trained in the use of some kind of distraction (flash-bangs) or non-lethal tactics (stun gun, bean bag gun, etc). Hit someone in the nads or throat with a bean bag and they're gonna hit the floor.

 

[highfigh]

Yesterday, Trump suggested that classroom teachers be armed and tasked with protecting schools from armed killers. Instead of acting out of a sense of leadership and seeking a consensus, Cadet Comb-Over took delight in taking cheap shot insults. Outraged by this, teachers quickly spoke out against it. Meanwhile, we learned last night of the utter failure of the armed sheriff's deputy who already was tasked with that school's safety and protection. Apparently neither teachers nor uniformed police want this job.

Early this morning, I had a brilliant insight. Arm illegal Mexican immigrants and put them to work patrolling the halls of schools. They'll be glad to work at a much lower wage than police or teachers would demand. It's a Win/Win solution to two vexing problems.

You want consensus? What rock have you been living under?

BTW- CONGRESS and every past POTUS since '04 could have re-instated the ban, but they didn't.

I'm not in favor of banning things so a small percentage of the population can't get something- I'm in favor of people accepting facts and taking responsibility, such as "I'm not mentally stable enough to own this", "my friend or family member should never possess a gun", "we have video evidence that this kid is violent and unhinged", "I saw someone doing things that make me worry that they'll do something terrible", "I know someone who has guns and they have put those guns to the the heads of my family members" (if this link is credible).

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/school-shooter-gun-threats-first-host-family-told-police-invs/index.html

 

[3db]

Yesterday, Trump suggested that classroom teachers be armed and tasked with protecting schools from armed killers. Instead of acting out of a sense of leadership and seeking a consensus, Cadet Comb-Over took delight in taking cheap shot insults. Outraged by this, teachers quickly spoke out against it. Meanwhile, we learned last night of the utter failure of the armed sheriff's deputy who already was tasked with that school's safety and protection. Apparently neither teachers nor uniformed police want this job.

Early this morning, I had a brilliant insight. Arm illegal Mexican immigrants and put them to work patrolling the halls of schools. They'll be glad to work at a much lower wage than police or teachers would demand. It's a Win/Win solution to two vexing problems.

"the wall boss!!! " "the wall!!"

 

[Blue Dude]

I think back to the combover-in-chief and the 'pubs doing the rollback on rules preventing people with mental disorders from purchasing guns. Boy was that a rule we don't need here in 'murica.

That's not exactly how it went down. The "rollback" was rescinding an executive order that hadn't yet gone into effect, and concerned placing SSDI recipients who needed assistance with handling their financial affairs, possibly - but not necessarily - because of mental illness. It was a problem of due process and overreach, not guns per se.

 

[highfigh]

Adding more guns is NOT the answer. Vegas is an open carry state yet that didn't stop the recent massacre.

I agree the police, school and FBI didn't follow through like they should have. After 9/11 we setup Homeland Security to establish terrorist protocols, oversight, etc. Why aren't we doing the same for domestic terroristm? Why aren't any of our politicians labelling it as such, because that is EXACTLY what this is! Ah because gun sales are good and the NRA is profitable as always. Can't regulate lethal weapons bc that would hinder gun sales, and the bottom line.

You don't hear about mass shootings at private schools b/c they usually lock the schools down and only allow visitors to be buzzed in after being vetted. We should do similar in public schools as well. When I was in high school, we had a cop on site all the time. Why don't we do that anymore? Perhaps we can move some of the cops away from speed patrol and writing tickets to actually protecting the public, especially our children. Ah, but there's no money in that. The police force thrive off giving speeding tickets and minor infractions.

So instead of more thorough background checks, banning deadly weapons, tightening up school security, putting qualified police on patrol of our schools, we are..... deputizing teachers to do it for free. I mean they get paid so much as it is now and they have such little pressure in public schools from the kids whose parents are lawsuit happy. Why not? Don't forget, the teachers are saving a ton with the new Trump tax plan, so much so that they can no longer write off the supplies that they have to buy themselves! They can easily afford to buy guns, ammo, and get the necessary training to protect our kids all while trying to teach them. Great solution. NOT!

Most states allow open carry but to shoot Paddock from the ground with handguns at that height and distance, it would be a miracle.

As far as your question about why the terrorism protocols aren't being used for domestic terrorists, I would say it's ineptitude, inertia and the ACLU. To be honest, I don't like the idea that the government is using clandestine measures to follow up on anonymous tips, but this guy was on the radar. The problem is that the FBI seems to have thought it was a smudge on the screen and couldn't wipe it off. The list of failures in this case is staggering. As much as people worry that the NDAA will be used against us, this clearly shows that work is needed to make the FBI and other agencies effective.

Some schools DO have police. I graduated HS in '75- we had fights, but never had anyone come in with a gun because society hadn't fallen that much. If we had a problem, we had the vice principal (former military- don't know what he did in service, but he would walk into the middle of a serious fight as if it was nothing, even if the guys fighting were much bigger), the metal shop teacher (Marine- NOBODY messed with him), several other teachers who had been in the military and enough jocks to stop just about anything. The main reason we didn't have these problems- someone would have said something if one of us was so far gone that we were a real danger. People were better, then- this isn't just nostalgia, it's a fact. People weren't willing to do these kinds of things, even if they thought about it.

Traffic cops don't need to be trained to stop a gunman and it's a waste of resources to have a whole department filled with those who can. A Police department isn't supposed to be an army but some people are forcing that issue.

At what point do we ask people to govern their own actions and make it known that someone is dangerous? People are so irresponsible that a lot of problems are inevitable. The problem- who's the last crazy person to think they were crazy?

 

[TheWarrior]

You want consensus? What rock have you been living under?

BTW- CONGRESS and every past POTUS since '04 could have re-instated the ban, but they didn't.

I'm not in favor of banning things so a small percentage of the population can't get something- I'm in favor of people accepting facts and taking responsibility, such as "I'm not mentally stable enough to own this", "my friend or family member should never possess a gun", "we have video evidence that this kid is violent and unhinged", "I saw someone doing things that make me worry that they'll do something terrible", "I know someone who has guns and they have put those guns to the the heads of my family members" (if this link is credible).

One guy tried to ignite his shoe on a plane. We all have to take our shoes off as a result.

Thousands of innocent people have been murdered by firearms, and nothing has changed. There's no responsibility being taken.