The NRA owns Trump as well.

[mtrycrafts]

No one is proposing "giving" guns to teachers. They would have to buy their own. That's why the NRA and the politicians it owns proposes that feeble solution.

Yes, indeed, 700k new sales of weapons to those 20% of teachers.

 

[Swerd]

IF we could question all of the shooters, I should start by determining their attitudes on gun availability.

Where's George Carlin when you really need him? In this clip he talked about the war in Irag, but it's close enough to today's subject.

 

[Blue Dude]

Generally speaking there are no solutions, only tradeoffs. And each side wants the other to trade what THEY have in order to "solve" the problem, and thus simply talk past each other. So focus on points of agreement:

Mentally ill people shouldn't buy or possess firearms
See-something-say-something only works if it's taken seriously and acted on
Background checks only work if the data is accurate

and build from there. Are there other points of agreement? Sure, let's talk about those. But simply asserting bad faith, character, morals, beliefs and intentions on the other side probably isn't going to get anyone very far.

 

[TechHDS]

Look, say what you want about Gun control and the 2nd Amendment. Guns do Not kill people, People kill People! That Gun, Truck, or want ever can't do a dam thing! Untill someone pulls the trigger, or drives a Truck, Car, Tank or Plants a Dirty Bomb. You would think We as a Civilized Nation would be done with killing innocent people, it's as bad as it was in the Roman times even going back even further. If anyone has been watching the News lately, Syria just killed 300 or more people just the other day most of them children. So what's the next thing We hear, ban all Wars?. More Wars have been started more people have been killed including children because of Religion than everything else on this planet. Tragic as it may be with all these killings in school blaming, Trump or any other Administration that has never stopped it and never will or trying to change the 2nd Amendment cause some nut job decides to pull a weapon and kill a bunch of innocent people won't change the fact that KILLING has been going on in the Whole Wide World since the dawn of time before guns Ever came in to play..Just my take on the Whole mess, May the Family's of the one's lost with this recent tragedy find peace.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Look, say what you want about Gun control and the 2nd Amendment. Guns do Not kill people, People kill People! That Gun, Truck, or want ever can't do a dam thing! Untill someone pulls the trigger, or drives a Truck, Car, Tank or Plants a Dirty Bomb. You would think We as a Civilized Nation would be done with killing innocent people, it's as bad as it was in the Roman times even going back even further. If anyone has been watching the News lately, Syria just killed 300 or more people just the other day most of them children. So what's the next thing We hear, ban all Wars?. More Wars have been started more people have been killed including children because of Religion than everything else on this planet. Tragic as it may be with all these killings in school blaming, Trump or any other Administration that has never stopped it and never will or trying to change the 2nd Amendment cause some nut job decides to pull a weapon and kill a bunch of innocent people won't change the fact that KILLING has been going on in the Whole Wide World since the dawn of time before guns Ever came in to play..Just my take on the Whole mess, May the Family's of the one's lost with this recent tragedy find peace.

Actually, war is banned by the United Nations. I'm pretty sure UN members need permission to attack another country, not that there's teeth in the enforcement. Also, you can't declare war in the US without the permission of Congress, so, technically, war is already illegal without an exception.

As for the rest of your post, your emotions or caffeine, or something, has really got the best of you. It's one string of run-on sentences. That people-kill-people argument is so passé. I think it is more arguable that guns make people a lot more capable of carrying out an impulse than other weapons. Having to stab someone takes a lot more determination and thought. With a gun, just move your finger a little from a distance.

I like the 2nd Amendment, but how about a thoughtful argument for it, rather than a cliche?

 

[3db]

He hardly originated the idea. However, if Cruz had someone pointing a gun in his face, I doubt he would have kept going. I think that any of these shootings would have been far less deadly if a few rounds had been fired at the shooter- even if they missed, it would have bought time for people to get away. It's seen in every Military or Western movie- someone always yells "Cover me!" before running to get a better vantage point or to get away.

People who do this have little to no resistance, so they keep going until the Police show up and here in MKE, where shootings happen far too often, the saying "When seconds count, the Police are only minutes away" holds a lot of truth.

At some point, we need to hold parents, schools and most of all, GOVERNMENT LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN ALERTED TO SOMEONE'S ONLINE COMMENTS responsible for these events. The husband where Cruz was staying said he thought he had the only key to the gun safe he says he insisted on when he found out that Cruz had seven guns. I can't think of the last lockable item that only had one key. They ALWAYS come with a spare!

The school has video of Cruz fighting with his ex-girlfriends' new boyfriend. This seems to be similar to the ever-popular "If I can't have her, NOBODY can!", taken to an extreme. I read a comment that one victim had been hit by nine round- he must have really hated her- maybe she took the ex's side. Kids at the school said they expected him to do something like this- why did this not make it to the administrators and police?

I agree but you are still ignoring the fact that you are now bringing in another possible lethal element, an unstable teacher with a bad day. Its an escalation, not a descalation . It still smells like shite, no matter how much perfume you douse it with. .

 

[shadyJ]

Chicago. Toughest Gun laws in the country and the highest Gun murder rate. I can list other extreme gun law states and cities. Criminals do not obey the law.

Most of the guns used in Chicago crimes were legally acquired in states where gun laws are far more relaxed.

 

[shadyJ]

Actually, war is banned by the United Nations. I'm pretty sure UN members need permission to attack another country, not that there's teeth in the enforcement. Also, you can't declare war in the US without the permission of Congress, so, technically, war is already illegal without an exception.

Hey Irv, this is why I have been petitioning my local congressman to pass legislation that would legalize war. There are a lot of wars that I have wanted to wage but have thus far been prevented from doing so by overly-burdensome laws against war. This is just another example of governmental overreach that stifles individual liberty.

 

[lovinthehd]

Generally speaking there are no solutions, only tradeoffs. And each side wants the other to trade what THEY have in order to "solve" the problem, and thus simply talk past each other. So focus on points of agreement:

Mentally ill people shouldn't buy or possess firearms
See-something-say-something only works if it's taken seriously and acted on
Background checks only work if the data is accurate

and build from there. Are there other points of agreement? Sure, let's talk about those. But simply asserting bad faith, character, morals, beliefs and intentions on the other side probably isn't going to get anyone very far.

I think back to the combover-in-chief and the 'pubs doing the rollback on rules preventing people with mental disorders from purchasing guns. Boy was that a rule we don't need here in 'murica.

My mom was a teacher and am positive she would have been horrified by this brain fart proposal by the drumpf to weaponize teachers.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Hey Irv, this is why I have been petitioning my local congressman to pass legislation that would legalize war. There are a lot of wars that I have wanted to wage but have thus far been prevented from doing so by overly-burdensome laws against war. This is just another example of governmental overreach that stifles individual liberty.

You've been listening to too much of that 125db music you talked about in another thread...

 

[mtrycrafts]

Generally speaking there are no solutions, only tradeoffs. And each side wants the other to trade what THEY have in order to "solve" the problem, and thus simply talk past each other. So focus on points of agreement:

Mentally ill people shouldn't buy or possess firearms
See-something-say-something only works if it's taken seriously and acted on
Background checks only work if the data is accurate

and build from there. Are there other points of agreement? Sure, let's talk about those. But simply asserting bad faith, character, morals, beliefs and intentions on the other side probably isn't going to get anyone very far.

Yes, you are right.
The sheriff's office was notified a bunch of time about the shooter. Apparently he didn't have enough authority or law to apply a permanent fix on him.
Where is the state law/s? States clamor to have more state rights and they do. States do pass strict laws.
Florida dropped the ball, twice.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I agree but you are still ignoring the fact that you are now bringing in another possible lethal element, an unstable teacher with a bad day. Its an escalation, not a descalation . It still smells like shite, no matter how much perfume you douse it with. .

And now, that school resource officer has been fired/retired for not engaging the shooter. A suicide mission against an armored shooter?
One more death to the list, what it would have been.

 

[Swerd]

And now, that school resource officer has been fired/retired for not engaging the shooter. A suicide mission against an armored shooter?
One more death to the list, what it would have been.

When I heard that news this evening, my jaw dropped too.

A full-time paid sheriff's deputy, with about 30-years experience, failed to do the job that Cadet Bone Spur* proposes to allow self-armed teachers to do (with the incentive of a vague cash bonus). Right! If you want proper law enforcement, then pay for it.

* @shadyJ – I had to demote Commander Comb-Over to Cadet because thats a promotion I cannot bring myself to say.

 

[TechHDS]

Actually, war is banned by the United Nations. I'm pretty sure UN members need permission to attack another country, not that there's teeth in the enforcement. Also, you can't declare war in the US without the permission of Congress, so, technically, war is already illegal without an exception.

As for the rest of your post, your emotions or caffeine, or something, has really got the best of you. It's one string of run-on sentences. That people-kill-people argument is so passé. I think it is more arguable that guns make people a lot more capable of carrying out an impulse than other weapons. Having to stab someone takes a lot more determination and thought. With a gun, just move your finger a little from a distance.

I like the 2nd Amendment, but how about a thoughtful argument for it, rather than a cliche?

Not really, I stand pat on my post. As for your analogy, caffeine or what ever You think I think is irrelevant. As for what you think Congress or any other Administration needs permission to start or stop a War, if I may suggest go watch that movie with Tom Cruise made in America, yeah it's just a movie, it is based on a true story that actually happened about just how sneaking our government can be with War and whose permission they need or don't need. In my family alone like many other good families in this country I have had Brother, Uncles, Grandfather that has served in previous Wars. I have had first hand knowledge from them who have experience what Killing a human being is like and what it is like for them to have to live with it for the rest of their life. But since You came at me personally with your lil analogies I believe your short-sighted and a lil close minded. But I could and may be wrong on how much you really know on these matters.

 

[psbfan9]

Hey Irv, this is why I have been petitioning my local congressman to pass legislation that would legalize war. There are a lot of wars that I have wanted to wage but have thus far been prevented from doing so by overly-burdensome laws against war. This is just another example of governmental overreach that stifles individual liberty.

Here, have some 'Thoughts & Prayers'.

I wrote to both of my senators and only one replied. I asked her about her support for HJ Res 40, which she cosponsored, and asked why she felt mentally ill people should have access to guns.
In her reply, she said, because the Second Amendment is important to all Americans.

For those that don't know HJ Res 40 is a bill that gives 2nd amendment rights to the mentally ill. Which trump happily signed, because as @3db stated, the nra owns trump to the tune of $30,000,000.00.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-joint-resolution/40

 

[gene]

Arm the teachers!! Excellent advice there dumbass Trump. . That way a teacher having a bad can go on a shooting rampage and up the numbers. Why should students have all the fun of killing one another?

Trump suffers from a cognative bias known as the Dunning Kruger effect. He can't possibly come up with real solutions because the problems at hand elude him. What makes it even more dangerous is his over simplification of the problems at hand that he believes he's attained mastery of.

 

[gene]

So precisely as @3db stated - this kid wanted to talk about arming teachers, and was instead redirected rather than making inflammatory statements after seeing what he wanted to read. The speech was already going to be scripted.

Simply put, there is room for compromise in our currently barely existent weapon laws. But I've not found a single "gun rights advocate" who can define what that compromise should be, and instead reverts to exhausted "they're trampling my rights" rhetoric.

These children had a right to live. Rubio agreed guns were the issue. But even when mental health is cited, and I do agree that HAS to be a part of changing weapon laws, everything the current administration has done has been to overturn any sort of oversight that could prevent this from continuing to happen. Mental health checks were revoked, and even acknowledging mental health as a basic right along with healthcare is being prevented.

If you have any interest in compromise, get vocal with your representatives and push the initiative. Because that Townhall is what change looks like, and your opportunity for compromise before outright banning, is running down the drain.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/02/22/marco-rubio-booed-father-of-parkland-shooting-victim-town-hall-sot.cnn

Blaiming mental health is a cop out. Why don't we ever blame mental health when it's a Muslim committing an act of terrorism? We are facing domestic terrorism in our country and the NRA is enabling it with their lobbying in Washington to resist any sensible gun laws and regulations.

BTW this is a good, informative read on many of the myths discussed herein:
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/common-myths-too-many-people-get-wrong-about-gun-control.html/?a=viewall

 

[gene]

Chicago. Toughest Gun laws in the country and the highest Gun murder rate. I can list other extreme gun law states and cities. Criminals do not obey the law.

BY that logic why have any laws at all? Why not just live in anarchy? Why restrict citizens to just guns? Why not let everyone have rocket launchers, nuclear weapons etc?

 

[Bailey69]

Arm the teachers!! Excellent advice there dumbass Trump. . That way a teacher having a bad can go on a shooting rampage and up the numbers. Why should students have all the fun of killing one another?

I wonder, has a teacher ever gone on a student shooting rampage.. Ever?

 

[Steve81]

Why not let everyone have rocket launchers, nuclear weapons etc?

Hey, if a simple bounty hunter can have toys like these, why not me?