BS Polish nationalism tried to rewrite history....

[shadyJ]

So I just stumbled on this thumbnail ad while surfin through youtube:

This struck me as odd since it stresses "German" in the hashtag along with a stamp for some organization called "Polish National Foundation." With great trepidation I clicked on the ad to confirm my suspicions about its cause. Here is the youtube video that it links to. It's nonsense propaganda that tried to absolve Poland of any culpability in the holocaust. I know that Poland has taken a political hard-right turn in recent years and I wonder if this is not a part of that. The truth is that Germany had a lot of assistance in carrying out genocide in nearly all of the countries that they occupied. While the fault for the holocaust has to be assigned to Germany mainly, Poland has a LOT of blood on its hands. There are many stories across Europe of the Wehrmacht being shocked by the zeal of which the locals viciously carrying out pogroms, and Poland was no exception to that ugliness.

I am not writing this to side with one group against another, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I just think its worth pointing out this total bastardization of history, and the lies that is inevitable with any kind of nationalism. I have to wonder if the jackasses who made this most distasteful piece of propaganda actually believe their own lies? Any historical scholarship at all, even the most cursory perusal of the historical documents, debunks this nonsense. I hope that this advertising campaign does perk up people's interest, and that they do look into the events surrounding this horror, so it becomes better known that Germany was not at all alone in their prosecution of the holocaust. It was a Europe-wide crime, and Poland was most definitely an accomplice.

 

[Jeepers]

When you go back in time, you will find a lot of countries that have blood on their hands for all kinds of crimes.

 

[rojo]

When you go back in time, you will find a lot of countries that have blood on their hands for all kinds of crimes.

Spoiler: Blood, gore. Do not click if you're bothered by such things.

 

[highfigh]

So I just stumbled on this thumbnail ad while surfin through youtube:

This struck me as odd since it stresses "German" in the hashtag along with a stamp for some organization called "Polish National Foundation." With great trepidation I clicked on the ad to confirm my suspicions about its cause. Here is the youtube video that it links to. It's nonsense propaganda that tried to absolve Poland of any culpability in the holocaust. I know that Poland has taken a political hard-right turn in recent years and I wonder if this is not a part of that. The truth is that Germany had a lot of assistance in carrying out genocide in nearly all of the countries that they occupied. While the fault for the holocaust has to be assigned to Germany mainly, Poland has a LOT of blood on its hands. There are many stories across Europe of the Wehrmacht being shocked by the zeal of which the locals viciously carrying out pogroms, and Poland was no exception to that ugliness.

I am not writing this to side with one group against another, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I just think its worth pointing out this total bastardization of history, and the lies that is inevitable with any kind of nationalism. I have to wonder if the jackasses who made this most distasteful piece of propaganda actually believe their own lies? Any historical scholarship at all, even the most cursory perusal of the historical documents, debunks this nonsense. I hope that this advertising campaign does perk up people's interest, and that they do look into the events surrounding this horror, so it becomes better known that Germany was not at all alone in their prosecution of the holocaust. It was a Europe-wide crime, and Poland was most definitely an accomplice.

While Poland has been the object of desire for both Germany and Russia, one thing that's important to note is the intensity of peoples' religious beliefs. Even though Germany is heavily Lutheran, Poland tends to be heavily Catholic and we all know how well the Roman Catholic Church has treated people, over the centuries. Not trying to anger anyone, but the track record speaks for itself. There's plenty of hatred for many groups in older Polish people, even if they weren't born there- it can be an 'all, or nothing', 'us, or them' view of others and that's where a lot of problems begin. One of my aunts (on my paternal side), who was born in the US, was a devout Catholic and yet, she didn't think someone who was anything BUT Catholic was a true Christian. I decided that discussing this wouldn't help anything.

Two of my cousins (also on my paternal side) had their DNA tested and found that they're 3% Ashkenazi- I can only imagine the reaction from my aunt (and an uncle) to that. Oh, the irony.

 

[Ponzio]

All of the German occupied territories had their own nationalist opportunists & sycophants. Good luck cleaning out those stables.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Two of my cousins (also on my paternal side) had their DNA tested and found that they're 3% Ashkenazi- I can only imagine the reaction from my aunt (and an uncle) to that. Oh, the irony.

And their parents and grandparents had even more. Yes, the irony.

Imagine what Adolph would have done if this DNA truth teller was available back then?
Probabilistically he may have had some as well.

 

[shadyJ]

And their parents and grandparents had even more. Yes, the irony.

Imagine what Adolph would have done if this DNA truth teller was available back then?
Probabilistically he may have had some as well.

He would have done what all fascists do in those situations: reject science.

 

[highfigh]

And their parents and grandparents had even more. Yes, the irony.

Imagine what Adolph would have done if this DNA truth teller was available back then?
Probabilistically he may have had some as well.

Pretty sure it's only on my grandmother's side, but I may have my DNA analyzed, so it's just a matter of time until I find out. I have to think it's hard to be born to a European family and not have at least one Jewish ancestor in the past unless great control over who was having kids was exercised. It's too late to ask and my grandfather died before I was born, but the rumor has been that when he and my grandmother were married, the rest of his family never spoke to him again and his mother & at least one other lived less than a mile away, on the same street. My ggmother is in one cemetery and the rest are in another, but my dad and his siblings were raised as devout Catholics( I guess that wasn't good enough for the rest of the family). My grandfather came here when he was 19, the same year Hitler was born (1889). One of my uncles made a comment about Jews and my first thought was "I guess I won't tell him about Cindy"(the nice Jewish girl I was going out with at the time).

 

[highfigh]

He would have done what all fascists do in those situations: reject science.

How would you explain his reliance on scientists to design rockets, weapon systems, military vehicles and other things?

I mean, he WAS interested in astrology- how much more science could he need?

 

[GO-NAD!]

How would you explain his reliance on scientists to design rockets, weapon systems, military vehicles and other things?

I mean, he WAS interested in astrology- how much more science could he need?

If the science conformed with his political views or had a practical benefit, i.e. advanced weaponry, it was acceptable. Otherwise, it was 'fake'...

 

[mtrycrafts]

... and my first thought was "I guess I won't tell him about Cindy"(the nice Jewish girl I was going out with at the time).

Good call.

 

[mtrycrafts]

How would you explain his reliance on scientists to design rockets, weapon systems, military vehicles and other things?

I mean, he WAS interested in astrology- how much more science could he need?

Ah, the same way it is being explained by another in a high place today.

 

[highfigh]

Good call.

Unless I just wanted to wind him up and in that case, I missed my chance.

 

[3db]

Pretty sure it's only on my grandmother's side, but I may have my DNA analyzed, so it's just a matter of time until I find out. I have to think it's hard to be born to a European family and not have at least one Jewish ancestor in the past unless great control over who was having kids was exercised. It's too late to ask and my grandfather died before I was born, but the rumor has been that when he and my grandmother were married, the rest of his family never spoke to him again and his mother & at least one other lived less than a mile away, on the same street. My ggmother is in one cemetery and the rest are in another, but my dad and his siblings were raised as devout Catholics( I guess that wasn't good enough for the rest of the family). My grandfather came here when he was 19, the same year Hitler was born (1889). One of my uncles made a comment about Jews and my first thought was "I guess I won't tell him about Cindy"(the nice Jewish girl I was going out with at the time).

My parents were raised in Germany during WW2 with my father entering service at the ripe old age of 14. My grandfather was sent to the Russian front for criticizing publically what Hitler was doing to the Jewish population. My Mom had a book where she had to prove back X amount of generations that there was no Jewish blood in her gene pool. The iron cross was stamped across every page listing each Jewish free generation. One page passed where the iron cross stamps had stopped was a Jewish relative. This may have been an oversight by the Nazi officials as she was blonde hair and blue eyed.

 

[3db]

Shady, no country who fought in WW2 can ever claim to be free of pulling some kind of atrocity. War brings out the ugly in everyone.

 

[shadyJ]

Shady, no country who fought in WW2 can ever claim to be free of pulling some kind of atrocity. War brings out the ugly in everyone.

I understand that, but this sort of history rewriting perpetuates the injustice to the present day. The only legitimate way forward is for history to be written as impartially as possible, and any crimes which were committed must be honestly reckoned with. The more lies and myths that are spread about events like this, the less likely they will be avoided in the future.

 

[3db]

I understand that, but this sort of history rewriting perpetuates the injustice to the present day. The only legitimate way forward is for history to be written as impartially as possible, and any crimes which were committed must be honestly reckoned with. The more lies and myths that are spread about events like this, the less likely they will be avoided in the future.

Agreed and Hitler took full advantage of the lie that Germany was responsible for starting WW1.

 

[KEW]

Poland has nothing on our modern day allies; the Japanese:
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/12/07/world/for-most-japanese-pearl-harbor-is-just-a-footnote.html
By 1985, they had effectively trivialized that they provoked us into WW2 with them!
They have also wiped their text of all but minimal content of the massacre and "comfort women" sex-slave crimes they committed against their neighboring countries.

All in all the Germans seem to be the class act by accepting and reflecting on their history, but maybe that is because they really have no choice - being as enmeshed as they are with the rest of Europe, it'd be hard to say "I didn't do it".

 

[Swerd]

Poland has nothing on our modern day allies; the Japanese:
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/12/07/world/for-most-japanese-pearl-harbor-is-just-a-footnote.html
By 1985, they had effectively trivialized that they provoked us into WW2 with them!
They have also wiped their text of all but minimal content of the massacre and "comfort women" sex-slave crimes they committed against their neighboring countries.

All in all the Germans seem to be the class act by accepting and reflecting on their history, but maybe that is because they really have no choice - being as enmeshed as they are with the rest of Europe, it'd be hard to say "I didn't do it".

Germany, at least West Germany, had no choice about denying their responsibility for the Holocaust because they were divided and occupied for 45 years after the war. It's interesting that the former East Germans for the most part didn't share that same sense of responsibility as the West Germans. Perhaps similar conditions exist in Poland.

Japan also escaped much of the forced admission of their responsibility for their WWII actions. Our military occupation of Japan ended early because the Korean War. We alone occupied Japan after WWII, compared to the joint British, French, and USA occupation of West Germany. It's interesting that the three allies, after 2 devastating wars, would not allow Germans to deny their responsibility, but the USA alone allowed Japan to escape similar reforms.

 

[highfigh]

Germany, at least West Germany, had no choice about denying their responsibility for the Holocaust because they were divided and occupied for 45 years after the war. It's interesting that the former East Germans for the most part didn't share that same sense of responsibility as the West Germans. Perhaps similar conditions exist in Poland.

Japan also escaped much of the forced admission of their responsibility for their WWII actions. Our military occupation of Japan ended early because the Korean War. We alone occupied Japan after WWII, compared to the joint British, French, and USA occupation of West Germany. It's interesting that the three allies, after 2 devastating wars, would not allow Germans to deny their responsibility, but the USA alone allowed Japan to escape similar reforms.

Considering the regime that was in charge of the Eastern Block, it's not much of a surprise.